My Oktoberfest has a bubble gum flavor

[ohad]

Hi,

I made an oktoberfest with the following recipe:

Batch Size: 25 liters
Volume Boiled: 30 liters
Mash Efficiency: 73 %
Total Grain/Extract: 6.50 kg.
Total Hops: 30.0 g.
Ingredients
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
2.4 kg. Premium Pilsner Malt Extra Pale
2.8 kg. Vienna Malt
1 kg. Munich TYPE I
0.3 kg. Melanoidin Malt
20 g. Perle (Pellets, 8.15 %AA) boiled 75 minutes.
10 g. Perle (Pellets, 8.15 %AA) boiled 10 minutes.
Yeast: Fermentis Saflager W-34/70 11.5g

Notes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mashed for 90 mins @ 67-68C with 16.5L liqour
added 2.5L boiling water at mash out.
sparged with 17L.

boiled for 90 mins to a final volume of 20.5L. cooled to 25C , topped to
25L.
fermenting at 10C

Vital Statistics
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Original Gravity: 1.055
Terminal Gravity: 1.014
Color: 11.35 SRM
Bitterness: 25.2 IBU
Alcohol (%volume): 5.3 %


fermented at 50F for two weeks. then gave it 2 days at 68F . over a week I slowly cooled to 37F , racked to secondary , and kept at that temp for another month.
bottled and stored at room temp ~64F for a month.

now the beer is clear, but has a noticeable sweetish smell that I think is usually referred to as bubble-gum.

I think waiting is key here, since lagers take longer to smooth.

I wonder how long I should store it and should I do it in cold storage (~37F) of at room temp (~64F) ?

thanks.

 

[BargainFittings]

I typically store mine at 38 for about 3 months. That sweetness in the nose could be the malt. The munich and the Melanoidin when young can be candy like if there is little green apple in the nose.

If you can store it around mid 45 it will lager faster. http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter10-5.html

 

[ohad]

The bubble gum flavor is almost gone, but another thing happened.
The beer became less clear and more ale-like in flavor.
It was stored 3 months at room temp.
could this have caused the change?
The carbonation stayed the same, so I don't think it continued fermenting...

 

[ForRealBeer]

ohad, what was the schedule for your beer temperature wise?

 

[ohad]

ohad, what was the schedule for your beer temperature wise?

You can see fermentation schedule with temperatures above.
after bottling, I stored for 3 months around 65F

 

[ForRealBeer]

^ Ah, I see that now. [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nominal lagering times are 3 - 4 weeks at 45°F, 5 - 6 weeks at 40°F, or 7 - 8 weeks at 35°F, according to Palmer, and yours was fairly close:

68°F -> 37°F for a week
37°F four weeks
~64°F after bottling.

I doubt you had an infection, just guessing. Maybe some more time? Read this story for a little inspiration:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/


[/FONT]

 

[ohad]

No infection here, the beer is great!
it's just not an oktoberfest...

 

[broadbill]

Bubble-gum might be an off-flavor from a too-warm fermentation. When you say it was fermented at 50 degrees, do you mean the fermenting beer was kept at 50 degrees or that the ambient temp where the fermenter was kept was 50 degrees? There is a difference since fermentation will produce some heat.

 

[ForRealBeer]

Have to admit it does sound like a bit of a warm situation.

 

[Edcculus]

One thing that jumped out at me:

Cooled to 25C...Fermenting at 10C. What was the temperature when you pitched the yeast? If you pitched at 25, then that could be your problem. If you pitched at 10, I'm not really sure...

 

[ohad]

Bubble-gum might be an off-flavor from a too-warm fermentation. When you say it was fermented at 50 degrees, do you mean the fermenting beer was kept at 50 degrees or that the ambient temp where the fermenter was kept was 50 degrees? There is a difference since fermentation will produce some heat.

I ferment in a pail in a controlled fridge.
The temp probe is taped on the side of the pail , with a layer of insulation on the outer side. I think the true beer temp should be close enough to what the probe shows.

 

[ohad]

One thing that jumped out at me:

Cooled to 25C...Fermenting at 10C. What was the temperature when you pitched the yeast? If you pitched at 25, then that could be your problem. If you pitched at 10, I'm not really sure...

I don't really remeber but I probably pitched at 25C...
is this so bad ?

 

[JLem]

I don't really remeber but I probably pitched at 25C...
is this so bad ?

Warmer temps will result in more esters and most yeast-derived off flavors happen in the lag/growth phase and early stages of fermentation, so in your case, yes, this appears to be bad. Of course, it depends on how quickly the temp dropped from 25C to 10C and how big a pitch you did, but I'd say this is where your problem lies.

 

[Yooper]

I don't really remeber but I probably pitched at 25C...
is this so bad ?

Well, yes if you're making a lager. The yeast LOVES warm temperatures, so it'll reproduce and start fermenting quickly. It might have started fermenting before you got to 10C. Pitching at 25C is even too warm for ale yeast strains.

One of the side effects of a too-warm fermentation is esters. Esters are fruity flavors, like banana or bubble gum.

 

[ohad]

OK ... next time I'll pitch colder.

I think I'll keep this beer in the fridge so it'll clean as much as possible.

Thanks for the help , especially for the guys who made an effort and answered in Celsius

 

[Edcculus]

I don't really remeber but I probably pitched at 25C...
is this so bad ?

Yea, like the others said, 25 is a very warm pitching temp, especially for lagers. Even with ales, I cool to at least 19 before pitching. I actually prefer to pitch a little cooler. I'm betting that is where the bubblegum esters are coming from. You could stash the bottles in the fridge for a while and the esters could fade.

 

[ohad]

You could stash the bottles in the fridge for a while and the esters could fade.

Yeah, I'll do that.

The beer is really nice as it is, since most of the bubblegum faded by now.
It might be gone before it ages enough
It's like a clean , malty pale ale. The munich flavors are the most obvious, but you can taste the grainy pils in the background.
I think the recipe is really good, and I'll probably repeat it with the changes to temps suggested here.

 

[ForRealBeer]

Ohad, Greg Noonan's book "New Brewing Lager Beer" might be worth its weight in gold for your efforts. At $14/US it's really a good book to read if you want to make great lager brews.

 

[ohad]

Ohad, Greg Noonan's book "New Brewing Lager Beer" might be worth its weight in gold for your efforts. At $14/US it's really a good book to read if you want to make great lager brews.

I was thinking the same thing... I'll order it

 

[ForRealBeer]

Finally, if you can't find any gypsum and Israel's customs people will allow it, I will send you some of mine. I don't need to mess with my water like I used to (lucky me, I have nearly perfect brewing water from the tap) and you are more than welcome to the 3-4 Oz I have in my ingredients closet.

 

[ohad]

Thanks a lot for offering!
However, if I start thinking about shipping, my plan B is buying online in a brew store and shipping it to my cousin in Boston.