bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
To be fair, I do think it's silly to add 12 cents for Starsan.
My new goal- $10.00 to make 5 gallons
- Thread starter BobbiLynn
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
To be fair, I do think it's silly to add 12 cents for Starsan.
Its possible. I bet you don't count supplies, or where your money goes with the supplies you get but a lot of us do that's why many of us can make a 10$ batch feasible. I'll break a recipe down for you so you can see it work.
Lets say Centennial (c-type) Blonde, which makes a pretty darn good beer.
6 lbs, 9 oz 2-row @ 35$/55lb bag = $0.63/lb. = 4.13
11.3 oz cara-pils @ 1.79/lb from LHBS = 1.26
7.5 oz vienna @ 1.70/lb = 0.80
7.5 crystal 10 @ 1.70/lb = 0.80
1/2 oz C-type @ 1.10/oz = 0.55
1/2 oz cascade @ 1.10/oz = 0.55 (or free if you have home grown like I did)
Washed yeast, starter made from wort taken from last batch = 9 batches so far with it so... 3.99/9= 0.44. But this is going to keep going and will get cheaper.
Propane= 1.66 per batch. Last tank @ 20$ lasted me over 12 hours. 20/12= 1.66 with a ROLLING boil.
Star san= 7.99/8 oz. I have about 4 oz left after 25 batches, so I assume 50 batches for the bottle but I'm guessing i'll get even more out of it. I use a spay bottle. No infections either. So 7.99/50= 0.16/batch.
Sugar (table) from wegmans = I believe 2.99$/5lbs @ 3.5 oz/batch = 0.13
Caps= 2.99/144= 1$/50
Grand total of 11.35 assuming
1) you don't use a different sanitizer, don't use swing tops to bottle (I have 1 g worth of these), don't have home grown hops, and use propane, and you have only used the yeast for only 9 batches.
10$ is feasible. Starters (if needed) can be made from wort form the previous batch. I collect a little extra if I know I'm not making successive batches and use that. I also get 78-low 80's depending on the batch for efficiency. And I make a darn good variety of tasty beers.
Toasting your own will save another 2$, swing tops another 1$, more batches with the same yeast $0.30, electric another 1$, home grown hops another 1$....
If you did any of the above you can get below 10$ easily.
That's because most of our malts come from out-of-state. Who's the nearest malter? Great Western? They're in WA, IIRC.
Tax on malt? I just bought 150#, and I'm pretty sure I didn't pay tax on it. It's a foodstuff, and not even a prepared one. Just called my LHBS and they said no tax on grain in CA. Do your county have special rules?
Propane in CA is not hard to find under $18 per 15# swap, and I've paid under $1/lb at feed stores for refills in the past.
Two silver medal beers on tap right now. (St. Louis Brews Holiday Competition)
On the left a Blonde Ale pouring at 23 cents a pint.
On the right a Vienna Lager that pushes at around 29 cents a pint.
I'm good with the freshest of fresh beers at those prices.
On the left a Blonde Ale pouring at 23 cents a pint.
On the right a Vienna Lager that pushes at around 29 cents a pint.
I'm good with the freshest of fresh beers at those prices.
Edit: you're from MarysVILLE...not Maryland. Sorry about that.
I also see you're right about grain not being taxable. I think I have found a beef with my LHBS.
FWIW, I'd guess propane up there is FAR cheaper then down here. I figure $25 a fill in SB. Here's my closest propane fill station:
http://www.altfuelprices.com/stations/LPG/California/Santa-Barbara/
4.80
BBL_Brewer
Well-Known Member
If you want to start cutting costs Bobbi, start farming your own yeast. That will save a ton of money right there. If your soil is ok, grow some hops. Being in Florida I don't know what varieties would grow good there, it gets pretty hot in the summer, but HG hops are pretty cheap (although Hops Direct is pretty darn cheap to begin with if you get in on the fall harvest before it sells out and buy enough to make shipping worthwhile. You can also mash your own starter wort and pressure can it instead of use DME. I'm about as frugal as they come and I can crank out 5 gallons for about $12 once you add up all the costs and consumables. But I keep my OG between 1.060 and 1.070 most of the time. If I brewed more sessionable beers, I could easily drop that below $10.
A Blue Rhino or AmeriGas exchange is $18 almost everywhere here for 15#. I'm under 2 hours from the refineries in Benicia, but I can't imagine the LA port area has none within 2 hours of you.
I see your link is 4.80 per GALLON. At 4.11 lbs/gal for LPG, you're looking at $1.16/lb, or $17.52 per 15# refill.
The tanks are 5G no? Maybe I'm not smart enough to avoid getting ripped off...but personally, I just paid 23 and change for a fill at that exact station.
I've weighed my blue rhino (refills 24.99 at my local OSH btw) and been short changed. If I could find one that fills them all the way for $18 bucks and didn't exchange my good tanks for old rusted ones, I'd probably be open to it.
The port is at San Pedro and that's 2.5hours (minimum) from me. Santa Barbara is notorious for having some of the highest fuel prices in the state. Check out the websites that show gas prices for an example. A lot of folks don't quite understand how expensive it is to live here even though we look out at the oil platforms everyday.
I'm not being closed minded. If someone can actually verify a cheaper place to get propane in SB I'd be all over it, but by the time I drive to LA (100 miles away) I'm not saving any money.
Edit: BTW, I really appreciate the feedback. I brew often enough that prices add up. 12 times a year for my brewclub monthly competitions and 1-2 more batches per month for personal drinking beers. I have 6 Homebrews on tap right now, and 2 that I don't have any taps for....and one in the fermenter right now. Hoping to brew this weekend too, but I'm down to my last keg! One last edit addition. Our nearest LHBS is 35-40 minutes away either direction. Half the time I drive to the wrong one and they don't have what I need LOL!
Oh...I see. In that case the exchange price at my local OSH is INSANE! LOL.
I totally forgot about partygyling. Granted your first batch needs to be a bit stronger ... but if the OP goes this route then a stronger good beer could be made too. Woot!
And one of my favorite beers was a partygyle off of a DIPA. I cheated and threw in 2 lb of 2-row and 1lb of crystal, but it was pretty cheap. Even better ... if you build a big starter then you can split it and the yeast $ splits across 2 beers.
Finally, mash a little extra grain and you can pull off a quart or two of 1.040 wort and can it. Pretty easy to do, and that makes your starter cost next to Nil as well.
This is fun
And to all those time-value-money folks (yes, i know i'm one of them), I challenge you on the DIPA or Belgian Saison cost. A bottle of Pliney runs $9.00 and a bottle of Phantome Black White is $15 (if you can get it). The only caveat is that those beers are WAAAAYYYY over $10 to make.
OP
OP
BobbiLynn
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2012
- Messages
- 2,943
- Reaction score
- 803
This is fun
And to all those time-value-money folks (yes, i know i'm one of them), I challenge you on the DIPA or Belgian Saison cost. A bottle of Pliney runs $9.00 and a bottle of Phantome Black White is $15 (if you can get it). The only caveat is that those beers are WAAAAYYYY over $10 to make.
I am taking notes all the way!! Good beer at a great price!! Who doesn't like that!! Free beer would be better, but hey, close enough!!! Even at 25 cents a beer and usually I drink no more than 4 a night... that's $7 a week!! Heck, I can find enough loose change laying around for that!!! Yeah, $10.00 was an arbitrary number, but glad you all saw my point and that I have your support! Came down with the flu this week and I still have 3 AG kits I bought that I need to start brewing. But already looking for the best local deals and what grows around here when it comes to flavoring, aroma, all that.
Happy brew day dance!!! Propane I can get from the big tank, costs nearly nothing. Hell, I got a 3 year supply probably. Equipment... all ready got that and nothing that I'll ever have to replace in my lifetime. Not likely anyway. Some cheap 2-row and I can gather the other ingredients cheap too. Make the process perfect, I don't care how much some people spend on ingredients, all the best stuff... it doesn't mean you are making great beer. Though, I must say many on here are making great beer, winning competitions, etc. using all the best ingredients. And I applaud them. For me though, I'm not planning to enter any competitions. I am so glad so many of you understand exactly where I am coming from. Knew I liked this place, since the first day I found it.
Happy brew day dance!!!So when you guys say can it. Ok, I understand you could probably add more strike water to your grains, let it mash in for a bit, then test it. If it's around 1040, then put it in 1 Liter sterilized cans. But when you say canning, are you just saying seal them in 1 Liter sterilized jars and then do what? Actual canning in a pot, or freeze it?
I boil it first....after the mash there's still bugs in there. Idk about cannning, as the temp/pressure might be enough. But if you just boil and put it in a sanitized container in the fridge you will be good to go. I use canning jars for a good airtight seal and little head space.
Basic brewing ran a podcast about actually canning it in a pressure cooker. Make a true shelf stable ready to use wort. This was more for the convenience of starter production than as a cost saving practice. I just made a batch of starter for tomorrow's brew and get why that would have been nice. I might go ahead and do it one of these days but the idea of getting it from partingyle is pretty cool as you could probably build the process into the brew day and get your jars into the pressure Cooker sometime during the main boil, and pull them out before the rest of the brew day is done.
Here is a boy article on the process that does a good job of addressing the "is a pressure cooker" required. Short answer is no, you can use boiling water bath method, but if you do that you need to make sure pH is sufficiently acidic to make the wort a "high acid food".
http://byo.com/stories/article/indices/58-yeast/437-canning-yeast-starters
Here is a boy article on the process that does a good job of addressing the "is a pressure cooker" required. Short answer is no, you can use boiling water bath method, but if you do that you need to make sure pH is sufficiently acidic to make the wort a "high acid food".
http://byo.com/stories/article/indices/58-yeast/437-canning-yeast-starters
Cider123
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2010
- Messages
- 1,135
- Reaction score
- 245
Well, Amazon will never be a source for me.
Here you can get maris otter for $5.99 for one pound.
http://www.amazon.com/Crisp-G01033-Maris-Otter-lb/dp/B0076QY6P6/ref=sr_1_2?s=grocery&ie=UTF8&qid=1359219807&sr=1-2&keywords=maris+otter
And if you buy 10 pounds. Well, lucky you, you can get your savings down to about $2.50 a pound with shipping! What a bargain!
Here you can get maris otter for $5.99 for one pound.
http://www.amazon.com/Crisp-G01033-Maris-Otter-lb/dp/B0076QY6P6/ref=sr_1_2?s=grocery&ie=UTF8&qid=1359219807&sr=1-2&keywords=maris+otter
And if you buy 10 pounds. Well, lucky you, you can get your savings down to about $2.50 a pound with shipping! What a bargain!
Last edited by a moderator:
bkl63
Well-Known Member
Last edited by a moderator:
That's crazy expensive.
Last edited by a moderator:
That was a good read. You can get a 12 pack of pint size canning jars for under $10, so probably worth trying. Next week I'll give this a shot, once I have drained the wort from my mash, I'll add another couple gallons to the mash, close it up, and then get my wort boiling. Once I do, then I'll take a gravity reading on what's comes out of the mash again. If it's around 1040, then i'll drain it into a gallon container, and work on that later after my brewing is over.
kombat
Well-Known Member
OK, I brewed a Porter this morning, and after I batch sparged, I ran another 2 quarts through the grain bed. The gravity of the resulting wort was only 1.008 - too low to be useful as yeast starter wort, in my opinion. It was a nice idea, though.
kombat said:
Why not adjust so you end up with a little extra like a 1/4 gallon? Add that extra quarter gallon to your recipe. So make 5.25 g batch and use that for a starter. It helps if you get good efficiency and don't have to add any extra grain.
techbrewie
Well-Known Member
yeah even if you spend $20-$25 per batch your still only spending 50 cents or so per beer (depending on your efficiency). It really cant be done without large initial startup costs. i.e. yeast harvesting growing hops, grain bulk buys. good luck though.
I don't see how any of the three things you posted can be considered large start up costs....
fredthecat
The original homebrewer™.
my 2 cents... when i plan cheap beers, i go for mega AA hops for aroma and flavour timings so that they end up bittering as well, or perhaps someone said, but why not do a 3 gallon batch for the price you'd be willing to pay for a 5 gallon. its logical to end up with some real bottom shelf tasting beer you made if its like 25 cents a bottle, but damn thats pretty hard up.
Bamsdealer
Well-Known Member
Simple pale ale
9lb 2 row and 1/2lb specialty grain -$8 if bought in bulk
1 oz each columbus and cascade- $2 at a buck an ounce
Just harvest us05 in a mason jar from one batch to the next. Unless you cut down on the grains, you wont get much cheaper than that. Water, propane, caps, priming sugar or co2, sanitizer, fresh yeast every now and then will cost you money but you wont see that every batch...
9lb 2 row and 1/2lb specialty grain -$8 if bought in bulk
1 oz each columbus and cascade- $2 at a buck an ounce
Just harvest us05 in a mason jar from one batch to the next. Unless you cut down on the grains, you wont get much cheaper than that. Water, propane, caps, priming sugar or co2, sanitizer, fresh yeast every now and then will cost you money but you wont see that every batch...
Yes it is.
I ran out of propane bringing my second batch to 170 last weekend. Quickly grabbed the tank out of my BBQ. Also empty. Arrrgh.
Ran down to the podunk corner gas station. The one that charges $0.20 above every other gas station if you drive into town.
Walked away with 8.1 gallons for $32 after taxes. Works out to $3.95/gal, or $0.96/lb. I'm sure cheaper could be had elsewhere.
bkl63
Well-Known Member
This whole post is so much more than just making "Cheap Beer". Cheap is probably the wrong word to use. These beer we are making are not really cheap, they are quality beers and we have giving ways to make every beer we make at great savings. The methods discussed allow everyone to nearly knock the cost in half using the same ingredients we were already using. The methods I use work across all my recipes not just the ones I can do for under $10.00.
What's also cool about doing group buys is meeting the others in your area who brew. Here is SJ we get together nearly monthly as 35 group buys have occurred since 2010 and the pickups become sharing of information as well.
Home Brew Talk is a such a cool site, we get to learn of so many aspects in brewing and see the ingenuity of members around the world and their DIY designs. We have great vendors who post awesome sales for all our needs in the brewing process.
What's also cool about doing group buys is meeting the others in your area who brew. Here is SJ we get together nearly monthly as 35 group buys have occurred since 2010 and the pickups become sharing of information as well.
Home Brew Talk is a such a cool site, we get to learn of so many aspects in brewing and see the ingenuity of members around the world and their DIY designs. We have great vendors who post awesome sales for all our needs in the brewing process.
bellmtbbq
Well-Known Member
Problem solved. Malt your own grain. Costs me 20 cents a pound unmalted and it costs me nearly nothing to malt and dry during the summer. You could make almost any beer besides IPAs and barleywines using washed yeast. Really not that difficult, you just need to do a protien rest
I can literally make five gallons of pale ale 10 lbs of grain, 3 oz of hops, and washed yeast for under 5 bucks.
10*.3= $3 grain.. Can make my own biscuit, C40, etc etc.. Toasting cost included
3*.50= $1.5 hops.. CTZ, Summit, Cascade, all CHEAP
I get 5-6 generations out of US05.. Not recommended but in my lab I can
I make tons of lagers so liquid yeast costs more even if I get tons of generations. Still costs under 8 bucks for a batch of Bohemian pilsner
I can literally make five gallons of pale ale 10 lbs of grain, 3 oz of hops, and washed yeast for under 5 bucks.
10*.3= $3 grain.. Can make my own biscuit, C40, etc etc.. Toasting cost included
3*.50= $1.5 hops.. CTZ, Summit, Cascade, all CHEAP
I get 5-6 generations out of US05.. Not recommended but in my lab I can
I make tons of lagers so liquid yeast costs more even if I get tons of generations. Still costs under 8 bucks for a batch of Bohemian pilsner
bellmtbbq
Well-Known Member
bellmtbbq said:
Delete
+1 on this post being about more than just making "Cheap Beer".
Also, what process do you use to malt your grain? Is there a guide or detailed instructions available somewhere for malting grain at home?
Also, what process do you use to malt your grain? Is there a guide or detailed instructions available somewhere for malting grain at home?
bellmtbbq
Well-Known Member
okiedog said:
BYO has a couple good articles. I don't get 100% germination but I get enough DP to convert
It's fun. I'd I need Munich malt for a Dunkel? Done. Crystal 20 L? Done. Only one I can't figure out is Honey Malt
Just curious where you buy your 2-row, this is about the lowest I see it at my LHBS.
BRIESS 2-ROW BREWERS MALT - 50 lb, $40
The Briess 2- row you cited is malted. I'm not sure where to go to get unmelted 2- row and am also interested in the answer.
bellmtbbq
Well-Known Member
eric19312 said:
Feed stores. I live in the backwoods and the feed store I use for my farm didn't carry it. Have to go an actual feed mill. You are talking about 55 LB sacks of malted barley, I buy bags for 12 bucks and germinate and dry them myself, and then roast and stew them for speciality and crystal malts. It's a lot more work but it's fun and cheap
The other day I went to the LHBS bought the ingredients I needed for two batches, along with a couple of airlocks, and the total was around $18. That also includes the ~$2 or whatever I paid for an ounce of hops, because I didn't have any good substitutes from my bulk hops.
One of the batches is a Mild, and the other is a Berliner Weiss. Low OG and low hopping for both. VERY cheap and tasty beers.
One of the batches is a Mild, and the other is a Berliner Weiss. Low OG and low hopping for both. VERY cheap and tasty beers.
Dynachrome
Well-Known Member
Try a batch with bread yeast.
Split off a gallon of wort and pitch it for an experiment.
Split off a gallon of wort and pitch it for an experiment.
Try a batch with bread yeast.
Split off a gallon of wort and pitch it for an experiment.
There are some interesting recipes in Radical Brewing that call for bread yeast. Maybe it can't hurt to go old school....
I know it's different, but I was reading some trials with Fleischmann's in Apfelwein, and it consistently ranked right around the bottom in every aspect, including taste, except carbonation level.
fredthecat
The original homebrewer™.
yeah going to have to agree, as i think many people said. you could easily make a good, standard homebrew quality beer if its malt focused.
90% 2row, 10% munich an ounce of bittering hops at 60. if you used a belgian yeast, lager or a clean ale it would end up quite nice
TMadness1013
Active Member
For those at the proper latitude, you should look into growing your own hops. Definitely will save you a good bit of cash if you use them year after year.
