My new goal- $10.00 to make 5 gallons
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kombat
Well-Known Member
Huh, that's a good idea, I'd never thought of that. I would imagine, however, that the S.G. of that wort would be a little low (starter wort should be 1.040), but I wonder if it would be close enough that a little boiling could get you there?
Anyone know what S.G. one could expect from a couple quarts of post-sparge runnings? If it's typically 1.010 then it's probably not worth it, but if it's in the 1.030 neighborhood, then you could boil that down to 1.040 and this might actually work.
I'm planning a brew this weekend, I'll try to remember to collect a couple quarts of post-sparge wort and see what kind of S.G. it has.
You forgot to count time in there. Even if it only takes 2 hours you would lose whatever you could have made at a part time job. Yes, that was sarcasm.
bkl63
Well-Known Member
bkl63
Well-Known Member
Same with the time spent drinking beer. Just a dose of reality. 
Oh... and I drink beer when I brew, so already multitasking.
Oh... and I drink beer when I brew, so already multitasking. I *just* happened to do a search for malt on Amazon and saw this message for the first time ever:
__________
This item is available because of the new Add-on program
The Add-on program allows Amazon to offer thousands of low-priced items that would be cost-prohibitive to ship on their own. These items ship with qualifying orders over $25 and are eligible for free shipping. Details.
__________
Hmmm... this new program could come in handy for a lot of things I need!
__________
This item is available because of the new Add-on program
The Add-on program allows Amazon to offer thousands of low-priced items that would be cost-prohibitive to ship on their own. These items ship with qualifying orders over $25 and are eligible for free shipping. Details.
__________
Hmmm... this new program could come in handy for a lot of things I need!
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Varmintman
Well-Known Member
In my happy world it does not cost money to brew beer. Matter of fact in my happy world people are calling me to give me ingredients. Matter of they want to get rid of them so much they are willing to pay me to take them
Then I wake up
Then I wake up
Super jealous. I'm lucky to find it for $0.90/lb in sack quantities, plus 7.5% tax.
The only grain I'd ever consider buying on Amazon, and only if I knew I'd just run out and knew I'd be working the next two days with no time to get to the LHBS:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MX00N2/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
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BetterSense
Well-Known Member
People in this thread think they got a deal on $0.60/lb barley. Learn to malt your own. The spot price of barley is about $0.10/lb! A 5 gallon batch should cost no more than a dollar for grain, if you aren't too lazy to malt your own barley.
http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=barley
http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=barley
BetterSense said:
I hate to say this about brewing, but at some point we need to consider the time value of money ;p. Unless the hobby aspect of self malting was appealing (or I could make better money as a maltster), I'd be much better off getting a side job and let the experts malt the barley!
Ha. Right. It's already hard to schedule regular brewdays and all the other brew-related activities. Job, kids, wife, house. No way I can grow and malt my own barley. Although I offer a giant one-man round of applause for anyone who does it (COLObrewer's efforts comes to mind).
william_shakes_beer
Well-Known Member
How much do you value your labor? Even at mninimumn wage if $7.25/hr, with a brew day racing along at 4 hours, you cost $29.00.
Everybody has a reason for getting in to home brew here's mine. I enjoy the process of creating recipies, the ritual of going to the LHBS, scooping grains into plastic bags, milling them, chewing on a few, planning the brew day, the pop of the propane as I fire up the strike water, the adjustments when I take a refract reading, and even the ritual of rinsing out the the grain bag at the end. Oh, and I also get to relive that process every time I pop the top off a perfectly aged stout. It all makes me smile. I don't honestly know what it cost me, and quite frankly I don't care.
solbes
Well-Known Member
My house orange pale ale runs me $8.40 in ingredients. 7.5 lbs of 2 row bought in 50 lb sack @ $0.72/lb. 8 oz carapils for a buck. 12 oz of crystal malt for $2 with a few oz leftover. Homegrown cascade hops. I suppose there is the cost of oranges for zested peels, but we eat those so I don't count it
I buy a Bells sixer to harvest yeast. I do use maybe $2 or 3 of DME to build up a starter, but I wash and reuse this yeast for a 4 beer series usually so the the cost is minimal.
Getting into malting your own barley sounds crazy to me, but I'll give credit to those who have done it. If you're really serious about making your own ingredients, I recommend starting some hop bines as its much easier. It will take you 2-3 years to get a lot of hops though.
I buy a Bells sixer to harvest yeast. I do use maybe $2 or 3 of DME to build up a starter, but I wash and reuse this yeast for a 4 beer series usually so the the cost is minimal.
Getting into malting your own barley sounds crazy to me, but I'll give credit to those who have done it. If you're really serious about making your own ingredients, I recommend starting some hop bines as its much easier. It will take you 2-3 years to get a lot of hops though.
There's always someone who says "how much do you value your labor?" to fight the point that brewing can easily be cheaper than buying beer. Do you count your labor when you do other hobbies? Play a round of golf for 30$ and say that the day spent golfing you weren't working so it really costed you 300$ and then add in the cost of your clubs? A lot of people take weekends off to enjoy themselves and to relax. Most of us enjoy the process you described very well. But to put a cost on the time it takes to brew is ridiculous. Its like saying that its costing you money to watch football, put together model cars, or spend time with your family.
The point of this thread was to give the OP some ideas/recipes/ways to drop down the expenses of home brewing. Time costs money, I don't know what it costs me and I don't care.... doesn't exactly help. I'm sure in your time brewing you have found out a few ways to save a little extra.
djt17
Well-Known Member
Exactly...I can take it to the extreme & say "I will save money by only sleeping 3 hrs a night".
DonLiguori
Well-Known Member
What I want to know is, how are so many people regularly getting bulk grain for 50-70 cents a pound?? Our LHBS has it available for over a dollar in bulk. $55 for 50 lbs, to be exact.
And considering that,
I've been harassing local farmers that I know to grow barley, but apparently the northern Ohio/southern Michigan climate just won't support it. But I'm hoping that as the craft brewing continues to explode in MI that one of them will change their mind.
And considering that,
I know this was said in jest, but honestly, I thought about it before (for the experience, not at all for saving money). But the process is so controlled that there's no way I could pull it off with any sort of confidence. Besides, I'd probably have to malt out a good 50 pounds just to get 10-12 of decent malt to brew with.
I've been harassing local farmers that I know to grow barley, but apparently the northern Ohio/southern Michigan climate just won't support it. But I'm hoping that as the craft brewing continues to explode in MI that one of them will change their mind.
Varmintman
Well-Known Member
I have been malting some of my own and yes the first batch pretty much was crap. But now I am up to where I am within 10% efficiency of store bought 2 row. And since I get the grain for pretty much free when I malt my own the cost is right next to CHEAP
By the way I had to feed a buddies cows for a weekend to get a ton of barley
ClarnoBrewer
Well-Known Member
I've malted, and have a walkthrough of my process here on the forum. Here's what I'll say about it:
-It's certainly possible and if you do it right, you'll get a full batch of usable malt.
-You'll probably need to adjust your efficiency to the 60% range, so you'll use a little more grain.
-Malting isn't hard and doesn't take a lot of fancy equipment. What it takes is time and availability. You can't leave it for 8 hours when you go to work. If it starts sprouting and you can't turn it, you'll over-convert and you'll be growing barley in a hurry instead of making malt. You need to be able to check on it every few hours at the crucial times.
Just my observations. I've done it before, but I don't think I could do it now because I can't babysit it. But if you work from home or have a few days off, go for it. It's fun and satisfying.
Group grain buys are the way to go. You can easily get a sack of US two-row for $32 or so. I pay $37 at my LHBS (which is really a deli/bait shop/gas station in wisconsin!)
ClarnoBrewer
Well-Known Member
Also, some LHBS are selling virtual bags of grain now. You pay the bag price, then you come in and get what you need for each batch until you've used up your bag. We have a great LHBS in the Portland area that does this. I can't say enough good things about Brew Brothers. Low prices, a great selection and good service. And no, I don't work there!
Haha -- my equipment is on a 50 year straight line depreciation schedule. Pretty minimal cost.
ClarnoBrewer
Well-Known Member
This is a good perspective!
With most of our more basic systems, I would bet that the savings over purchasing craft beer probably pays for the system within the first several batches (I'm sure someone will do the math).
Having said that, it's a hobby. I once got into a debate on here with a guy that bragged about how much his beer cost to make. IMHO, that's a bad way to look at it, especially when trying to encourage new brewers. If we're talking about figuring costs when starting a commercial brewery, YES, you have to figure al the costs. But I don't include my time and equipment because I'm choosing to do something I enjoy.
Which is why I approach this as $10 for ingredients (hops, barley, yeast).
*steps down from soap box*
I'm really impressed that the regular backlash complaining about a thread of this topic is pleasantly absent. The high horse stance on what or how cheap a homebrew can or cannot be is getting seriously stale. Bravo OP.
There are some seriously cheap 60 schilling recipes you can target since your fine with sub 4% ABV. It will take a couple of speciality grains, but only need bitter hops. It's a nice change from the lighter (in color) brews that have been discussed.
There are some seriously cheap 60 schilling recipes you can target since your fine with sub 4% ABV. It will take a couple of speciality grains, but only need bitter hops. It's a nice change from the lighter (in color) brews that have been discussed.
bkl63
Well-Known Member
You need to read the posts... group buys are how and it's been said on many posts here. My 55lb sack of 2-Row was around $34.00.
Don't know if you're serious or not, but one package of quality lager yeast is about $7-8. That's ok if you're reusing it, and making a lot of lagers, but normally that would blow a $10 budget right there.
If you dismiss energy costs (fermentation chamber for a lager to ferment at 50 degrees, followed by 6 weeks at 34 degrees), and the cost of the yeast, corona would indeed cost about the same as a cream ale to make.
I recently made a $13 batch. It was an experiment to say the very leist. I over did the dry hops in the primary (1oz for last 5 days). But that's just my taste. With a few adjustments, you could get it to less than $10. Look for a recipie called $7 beer. My prices at the LBHS came out to just under $13.
After a week in the keg sitting in the 35-40deg garage, the hoppyness is starting to mellow and becomming very drinkable.
#1 AMBER DME $3.25
#5 CORN SUGAR $4.29
2oz CASCADE HOPS $2.50 (.5oz@90, .5oz@5, 1oz last 5days of primary)
COOPERS ALE YEAST - 7g $1.80
_______
$11.84
TAX (WA 8.9%) $ 1.06
----------
$12.90
After a week in the keg sitting in the 35-40deg garage, the hoppyness is starting to mellow and becomming very drinkable.
#1 AMBER DME $3.25
#5 CORN SUGAR $4.29
2oz CASCADE HOPS $2.50 (.5oz@90, .5oz@5, 1oz last 5days of primary)
COOPERS ALE YEAST - 7g $1.80
_______
$11.84
TAX (WA 8.9%) $ 1.06
----------
$12.90
I will say this as PC as possible...I think some people here are fudging their numbers or possibly calculating costs based on the cheapest ever prices they've paid for ingredients.
I for one don't know any homebrewers who get grain for less then .72/lb and in our state you have to pay sales tax. Most hops cost at least .62/oz. Most specialty grains cost at least 1.50/lb although I can't find them anywhere for that price....and propane costs vary considerably depending on where in the country you are, but factor in cleaning supplies, water, brewing salts (if you use them) I think if you make a batch for $10 it's pretty impressive.
My standard pale ale, if I exclude hops costs me 9.80 for grain alone, and that's group buy pale malt at .80/lb and 1.80 for a pound of specialty malt.
I for one don't know any homebrewers who get grain for less then .72/lb and in our state you have to pay sales tax. Most hops cost at least .62/oz. Most specialty grains cost at least 1.50/lb although I can't find them anywhere for that price....and propane costs vary considerably depending on where in the country you are, but factor in cleaning supplies, water, brewing salts (if you use them) I think if you make a batch for $10 it's pretty impressive.
My standard pale ale, if I exclude hops costs me 9.80 for grain alone, and that's group buy pale malt at .80/lb and 1.80 for a pound of specialty malt.
Regarding my above post, I confess, maybe it's just where I live that makes this stuff more expensive. My cheapest grain source is my local brewpub and it's $40/bag. Specialty grain is a different story though...
bkl63
Well-Known Member
There are many things you can do to economize the brewing process. I keep all my inventory costs in Beersmith so I know exactly what a batch costs as far as ingredients. Are you doing a group buy from a LHBS or one from a bunch of guys that do it through the Group Buy page here on Homebrewtalk? There will be a higher cost through a LHBS. I go through a bunch of guys here on Homebrewtalk.
My base grains run around .60 to .70 lb. Some Specialty gains I stock: Thomas Fawcett Amber .80/lb and some 20L .60/lb.
I have 7 different hops in bulk for .50 to 1.00/oz. Have some that cost more as well (some up 2.75/oz)
When I buy my inventory, it goes right into Beersmith and when I do a recipe I know my ingredient costs no fudging needed.
Through guys in the Brew Club I'm in we can get Yeast from some of the local Brew Pubs and I only buy a few vials a year which I harvest as well and we all trade yeast once we rack off it. We borrow grain as well when needed.
I have a library of about 8 different Yeast right now in my fridge. I have about 8lbs of Hops in my freezer and over 200/lbs of grain in my inventory. I brew from 1 to 3 times a month, sometimes 5 gallon and sometimes 10 gallon batches depending on what is coming up in the circle of family and friends.
I have StarSan bought through a Group Buy for $32.00/gallon. I make my own PBW for a few dollars/pound. I get 177° water from my gas tankless water heater used to Mash and Sparge and don't use propane to do anything but boil my wort.
I'm Brian, now you can't say you don't know any brewers spending so little.
My base grains run around .60 to .70 lb. Some Specialty gains I stock: Thomas Fawcett Amber .80/lb and some 20L .60/lb.
I have 7 different hops in bulk for .50 to 1.00/oz. Have some that cost more as well (some up 2.75/oz)
When I buy my inventory, it goes right into Beersmith and when I do a recipe I know my ingredient costs no fudging needed.
Through guys in the Brew Club I'm in we can get Yeast from some of the local Brew Pubs and I only buy a few vials a year which I harvest as well and we all trade yeast once we rack off it. We borrow grain as well when needed.
I have a library of about 8 different Yeast right now in my fridge. I have about 8lbs of Hops in my freezer and over 200/lbs of grain in my inventory. I brew from 1 to 3 times a month, sometimes 5 gallon and sometimes 10 gallon batches depending on what is coming up in the circle of family and friends.
I have StarSan bought through a Group Buy for $32.00/gallon. I make my own PBW for a few dollars/pound. I get 177° water from my gas tankless water heater used to Mash and Sparge and don't use propane to do anything but boil my wort.
I'm Brian, now you can't say you don't know any brewers spending so little.
buy grains and hops- make a beer- mash / sparge / collect- but instead of tossing the grains- do a secondary mash and sparge- and make a less than stellar batch- but I will bet it will cost less than the first run through
Xpertskir
Well-Known Member
You are correct.
I think the point of the thread, how cheaply can I make a nice tasting beer is very worthwhile.
Saying I want to make beer for 10 bucks....is abitrary and really not possible when you are taking everything into account(except equipment and labor). Despite how many times someone wants to tell me I'm wrong and then not add things like cleaners, star san, corn sugar(or c02) and boiling power into the equation.
You can probably get pretty close if you back yourself into some ridiculous ingredient costs and brew with electric or nat gas, save star san, dont pitch an appropriate ammount of reused viable yeast cells, ect.
I tend to go about it the other direction. I want to make the most high quality beers possible at the lowest cost, but thats just me based on my circumstances.
I pay .74 cents a pound for base grain (Briess) but when I can get Rahr, it's cheaper. I pay about $1 pound for specialty grains, but normally use a pound or so in my "cheap beers". I grow 8 varieties of hops, and buy others by the pound. Willamette was $6/pound last year- that's 37.5 cents an ounce! So my hops costs, unless it's a big IPA or something is usually under $1 as well. I wash and reuse yeast, and have several "house" strains. That is about 40 cents/batch or less.
I generally make 10 gallon batches, and my cream ale comes out at $16 for 10 gallons.
Yep, you found me out. My beer sucks.
I brew with electric, I do save and reuse star-san, and I always pitch an appropriate amount of good yeast.
I usually brew at least twice a month, so it's not like this stuff sits around for an inordinate amount of time.
I also have an IPA recipe that clocks in at nearly $60 for 10 gallons! Lots of proprietary hops (can't grow them), lots of specialty grains, plus 25 pounds of two-row.
I'm not always about cheap beer. But there is definitely a place in anybody's brewing arsenal for a "week before payday" batch!
bkl63
Well-Known Member
Exactly right... My last Brew, now aging for the next two months is a Westy 12 clone, hardly a Cheap tasteless beer. The 5 gallon batch came in at $32.50 as I bought the Yeast and Hops from the LHBS. Next time I will save at least 8.00 for the yeast. I got the D2 Candi sugar from a group buy ($10.00/3lbs). I have a Fermentation chamber and control my Fermentation temps which is important to getting great tasting beer.
My typical brews can run from under $10 to $30 or $35.00 for a 5 gallon batch. Before group buys, bulk Hops and my yeast library it would have been easily $30 to $60.00 for a 5 gal. batch.
I got the D2 Candi sugar from a group buy ($10.00/3lbs). I have a Fermentation chamber and control my Fermentation temps which is important to getting great tasting beer.My typical brews can run from under $10 to $30 or $35.00 for a 5 gallon batch. Before group buys, bulk Hops and my yeast library it would have been easily $30 to $60.00 for a 5 gal. batch.
