Have you found a good caustic cleaner yet? I use CIPTON (vc11).. Only 1 of my lhbs has it.. He gets it from a brewery...
My keg tastes terrible.
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ThreeBrothersBrewery
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edmanster said:
Sounds like someone visits Art's.
ThreeBrothersBrewery said:
You got it!! That cleaner is worth its weight in gold
OP
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bernerbrau
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I have not yet. I was pressed for time this weekend when kegging, otherwise I would have. Of course... look what happens when you rush things
That said, wouldn't a bleaching + replacing o-rings, disconnects and lines tell me the same thing?
organikbrewer
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I would have to taste the beer to really give a good answer, but it seems to me your just over doing your cleaning and sanitizing. I think your just tainting your beer with cleaner or sanitizer. Before you fill your keg just rinse it well with potable water. Home brewers have been scared about contamination, but the biggest enemy of your home brew is oxygen, and remember that sanitizers are oxidizers and will stale your beer much quicker than any air and ruin your beer faster than any bacteria. Most infection aren't from poor cleaning but from infected yeast. Try just using hot water to sanitize your equipment, there is risk of taint and if you maintain 180 degrees for about 15 minutes it will be sanitary. Bacteria needs to be at 20,000 cell per ml before it will cause off flavors, that is large infection. A few cells will not ruin a beer, just as a few cells of yeast wont ferment a beer. Oxygen is very damaging, you need to keep oxygen pick up below 20 micro grams per liter to prevent staling. So fill your keg with hot water and push it out with co2 and purge it a few times then make sure your rack your beer under positive co2 pressure and you should have perfect beer. Also remember that Beer is micro biologically stable, that is why you cant get sick from drinking beer. The low pH, alcohol, and hops prevent or retard the growth of most bacteria, the more alcohol and hops the better. Also make sure your treating your mash water for pH and that your final beer is reaching a pH of around 4.2 if it is higher than 4.5 than your beer loses it microbiological stability. So mellow out on the cleaning, your equipment should be clean but, the detergents are worse for your beer than a little soil or bacteria. Good luck.
I have been kegging my beer for at least the last 15 years and have never had an off taste. I clean them with a dilute solution of bleach and rinse thoroughly Disassemble all parts run the solution though the dip tube and co2 side and rinse. Stainless steel does not impart off flavors. Try bottling a few beers from the same batch and try in e few weeks to see if they develop the same flavors some times an off flavor will develop after some time.
phoenixs4r
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I must be insane or something. I take a freshly kicked keg and wash the crap out with hot water, sanitize and refill. Every 3 months or so I'll run cleaner through the lines but I haven't had any issue with tastes, off flavors or infections. I do go though quite a bit of beer though.
I had a rotten keg once.
I lost 3 or 4 batches kinda similar to the OP. This was with dissasembly and starsan soak each batch.
I finally soaked the keg full of very hot PBW for an hour then rinsed about 85 times, and the problem went away. I think there was some little pocket of evilness somewhere in there that the SS was not getting rid of.
I lost 3 or 4 batches kinda similar to the OP. This was with dissasembly and starsan soak each batch.
I finally soaked the keg full of very hot PBW for an hour then rinsed about 85 times, and the problem went away. I think there was some little pocket of evilness somewhere in there that the SS was not getting rid of.
WE have 27 kegs and have not had this problem. We made a keg washer:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/keg-carboy-pot-cleaner-321563/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/keg-carboy-pot-cleaner-321563/
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bernerbrau
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OK. I noticed this thread made Facebook (yay, I'm famous) and all of a sudden traffic shot up. Here's what's going on right now.
Last night I bottled off the funkified beer, and kicked another keg which is unknown if it's caused me problems (the last batch in it was pretty stale, but it was nearly 10 months old).
So this morning I half-filled both with hot water and OxyClean and sealed them up tight. Soaked an hour rightside up and an hour upside down. I then disassembled them, scrubbed out the inside, removed and discarded o-rings, scrubbed the dip tubes and put the pieces in hot OxyClean to soak. After scrubbing I felt around the inside of both kegs and they both feel squeaky clean. Smell test indicates nothing off.
I dumped the OxyClean, rinsed once with cold water, dumped, filled again with cold water, added 2 tablespoons of bleach, and they're soaking now for an hour.
I have brand new o-rings, beverage post disconnects, beer lines, and hex nut washers. After rinsing everything thoroughly (making sure the chlorine is out of the kegs, possibly using campden) I'll sanitize the pieces and kegs in star san, assemble and seal, shake around, open up, invert the kegs to drain out, then purge the kegs with CO2 3 times before racking.
It takes about 12-24 hours for the bad taste to show up, so I'll report back tomorrow on the results.
Last night I bottled off the funkified beer, and kicked another keg which is unknown if it's caused me problems (the last batch in it was pretty stale, but it was nearly 10 months old).
So this morning I half-filled both with hot water and OxyClean and sealed them up tight. Soaked an hour rightside up and an hour upside down. I then disassembled them, scrubbed out the inside, removed and discarded o-rings, scrubbed the dip tubes and put the pieces in hot OxyClean to soak. After scrubbing I felt around the inside of both kegs and they both feel squeaky clean. Smell test indicates nothing off.
I dumped the OxyClean, rinsed once with cold water, dumped, filled again with cold water, added 2 tablespoons of bleach, and they're soaking now for an hour.
I have brand new o-rings, beverage post disconnects, beer lines, and hex nut washers. After rinsing everything thoroughly (making sure the chlorine is out of the kegs, possibly using campden) I'll sanitize the pieces and kegs in star san, assemble and seal, shake around, open up, invert the kegs to drain out, then purge the kegs with CO2 3 times before racking.
It takes about 12-24 hours for the bad taste to show up, so I'll report back tomorrow on the results.
So here's something I haven't seen mentioned (unless I missed it in the previous pages, if so I apologize for the redundant redundancy).
Have you checked the beer line? A couple months ago I picked up some new 3/16 beer line and hooked it up. The beer tasted terrible! A real foul bitter medicinal taste. I switched back to the line I had on there before, and it was fine. Returned the hose to the store.
Are you possibly using one specific hose for that keg? If so try swapping it out for a different hose, preferably one you used on a keg you know didn't taste bad.
Have you checked the beer line? A couple months ago I picked up some new 3/16 beer line and hooked it up. The beer tasted terrible! A real foul bitter medicinal taste. I switched back to the line I had on there before, and it was fine. Returned the hose to the store.
Are you possibly using one specific hose for that keg? If so try swapping it out for a different hose, preferably one you used on a keg you know didn't taste bad.
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bernerbrau
Well-Known Member
So... a couple hours ago I just by chance happened to feel the inside of one of my gas QDs... and it was pretty gunky.
I sniffed... and it smelled pretty close to the flavor that's been plaguing my beers. Apparently I got some beer up in my gas line at some point, and never checked the line.
I sprayed the thing out with star san, wiped it clean and hooked it up. Will report back tomorrow on the results.
I sniffed... and it smelled pretty close to the flavor that's been plaguing my beers. Apparently I got some beer up in my gas line at some point, and never checked the line.
I sprayed the thing out with star san, wiped it clean and hooked it up. Will report back tomorrow on the results.
We clean our in and outs every time with PBW.
You can get a pump at Harbor Freight for less than $15.
Get some 1/2 PVC at Local Box Store and a gray gas in and black beer out.
We also fill with about a 1.2 gal of warm PBW and leave inverted for 10 minutes.
We feel the top and use a soft scubbie if needed and give extra time for any that are extra dirty.
We also fill with water to the brim and leave overnight when we float them. We do not delay but do this right away.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/keg-carboy-pot-cleaner-321563/
You can get a pump at Harbor Freight for less than $15.
Get some 1/2 PVC at Local Box Store and a gray gas in and black beer out.
We also fill with about a 1.2 gal of warm PBW and leave inverted for 10 minutes.
We feel the top and use a soft scubbie if needed and give extra time for any that are extra dirty.
We also fill with water to the brim and leave overnight when we float them. We do not delay but do this right away.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/keg-carboy-pot-cleaner-321563/
OP
OP
bernerbrau
Well-Known Member
End result: the beers taste great, no off flavors.
So either I got lucky, or something I did fixed the problem.
I don't want to speak too soon, so I'll report back with the results on future batches.
1KD1
Well-Known Member
Glad to hear ya found something.
I have been having a very similar problem. I wash with pbw, star san, then purge/keg. Beer tastes fine at this point from the tap while flat. A few weeks later I would have a bitter, metallic taste. This last batch, I rinsed as usual (I'm a water waster and figured I was rinsing enough). After my normal rinse procedure everything seemed good, no residue feeling inside the keg. I then filled it up all the way in the driveway where I had good sunlight. I could see very few grains of the pbw still floating in the water. Not much, but it was there. I rinsed the crap out of the keg again and sanitized and kegged. One month later, no bitter metallic taste and a very fine Scotch ale running low. I'm kegging up a couple this week and hopefully will have the same results.
lots of good advice here. I am having the same issues, but it seems like a regiment change is in order.
Gary Baker
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Just make sure your beer lines are clean. I always clean my kegs with PBW first-then water-and then Starsan. In each case I connect keg to Co2 and run thru the line. My final step is to leave some Starsan in the beer line to keep the nasties out.
Never had a problem.
Way to resurrect an old thread!
doogie
Well-Known Member
You need to thoroughly rinse after using PBW. I didn't see that in your process.
Try heating a solution of Beer Line Cleaner to 140F and pumping it through the taps and lines for twenty minutes. You'll be surprised at the shmutz that it dissolves from 'cleaned' beer lines.
+1 for cleaning your beer lines and connectors.
I think that’s my issue. I soaked the lines and connectors, but I was using hose water that only comes out at 70ish degrees and probably didn’t do a great job cleaning.
This ^^^ 140 for the rinse too! Feel the running’s and when you no non longer feel the BLC good to go
