My first NEIPA - yeast info needed

[IslandLizard]

Tonight is the first 24hours.
Prepared co2: I mean (i've read and was told to me) that during dry hopping, i have to add co2 to the bucket to supersede the entering oxygen. And when i'll bottling the beer (unfortunately i dont have keg yet) i have to flush the bottle with co2 to suersede oxygen.

OK, that's good, being prepared to flush the headspace during or after tinkering with dry hops.

Are you going to add them after most fermentation is over? Or planning to do it earlier?

Are you going to add Amarillo first and Citra and Galaxy a few days later? Or all at once?

Leaving them for 5 days? Then cold crash for a few days to drop everything out?

 

[adam88]

OK, that's good, being prepared to flush the headspace during or after tinkering with dry hops.

Are you going to add them after most fermentation is over? Or planning to do it earlier?

Are you going to add Amarillo first and Citra and Galaxy a few days later? Or all at once?

Leaving them for 5 days? Then cold crash for a few days to drop everything out?

a.) I've read that i have to add dry hops when most fermentation is over (2-3 days). Its ok?
b.) I thought i just have to add them all at once, for 5 days? (i found this info on the net). Shall i add Amarillo first, then Citra and Galaxy? How many days after Amarillo?
b/2.) Can i use a little bag for dry hopping? Its a dense fabric bag.
b/3.) How to dry hopping? Just remove the top of the bucket, throw in the dry hops, put back the top, blow in some co2, put back the clucking? (how many co2?)
c.) I've read everywhere that in case of NEIPA do NOT cold crash. You've just made me uncertain :S

 

[Jag75]

There is so many ways to skin a cat. I've picked up different ways and put them together . On a NEIPA I dry hopped on day 2 of fermentation. During fermentation you dont have to worry about purging with co2. This is what I've read about bio transformation or whatever it's called.

When you dry hop after fermentation you have to be wary of o2. I had to use a paint strainer bag on my 2nd dry hop because my muslin bag wasnt big enough. The strainer bag worked great. I put in 2 shot glasses (sanatized) in the bag to weigh it down. That was for 4 days I think. So much expansion that it floated to the top! .
I just opened the top of the lid dropped it in then purged it with co2 for about 20 sec.

As for cold crashing , I have never cold crashed . The beer that I have done turns out nice and clear , .never murky . Maybe the whirfloc . Just find what works for you and go for it .

 

[adam88]

Today (at 17:00) i've checked the wort. Its 1.018 now (46 hours after yeast was pured into the wort) (So OG: 1.070, this afternoon: 1.018).
What do you think, can my yeast ferment it to 1.012 or maybe better 1.010?
I've also put the first amount of dry hop into the fermentor. I divided my amount of hops into 2 equal parts. I've used 130g of hop during brewing, i put 85g of hops today, and i will put the rest 85g few days later. So at all 100g Galaxy, 100g Amarillo, 100g Citra.
I've also tasted it in the measurement cylinder. It seemed cloudy (very very cloudy XD) but i can only taste a bittter taste (bitter of hops) and yeast (not bad taste, the same when i'm cooking bread or some home made pasta. So the original yeast taste). Should i taste the juicy-fruity flavors now?

P.s. the yeast was at the top of the wort it created a high foam layer. Is it ok?

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

Tonight is the first 24hours.
Prepared co2: I mean (i've read and was told to me) that during dry hopping, i have to add co2 to the bucket to supersede the entering oxygen. And when i'll bottling the beer (unfortunately i dont have keg yet) i have to flush the bottle with co2 to suersede oxygen.

Just add a little sugar when you dry hop the yeast will make C02 for you and push the oxygen out

 

[Jag75]

Today (at 17:00) i've checked the wort. Its 1.018 now (46 hours after yeast was pured into the wort) (So OG: 1.070, this afternoon: 1.018).
What do you think, can my yeast ferment it to 1.012 or maybe better 1.010?
I've also put the first amount of dry hop into the fermentor. I divided my amount of hops into 2 equal parts. I've used 130g of hop during brewing, i put 85g of hops today, and i will put the rest 85g few days later. So at all 100g Galaxy, 100g Amarillo, 100g Citra.
I've also tasted it in the measurement cylinder. It seemed cloudy (very very cloudy XD) but i can only taste a bittter taste (bitter of hops) and yeast (not bad taste, the same when i'm cooking bread or some home made pasta. So the original yeast taste). Should i taste the juicy-fruity flavors now?

P.s. the yeast was at the top of the wort it created a high foam layer. Is it ok?

Foam layer is normal . It's called krausen . Not sure what your beer will get down to point wise. Personally I always leave my beer in the fermenter for 3 weeks. Only way to know your beer is done is check your gravity . They say if it stays the same for a few days your good.

 

[IslandLizard]

b/2.) Can i use a little bag for dry hopping? Its a dense fabric bag.

Definitely NOT!

Even fairly large, roomy, weighted down, nylon hop bags limit interaction with the beer that draws out the hop oils that give us the flavor and aroma we're after, unless they get agitated every few hours (dunking motion). And even then, you may lose out big time.
Hops swell up enormously when they get wet, so if the hops compact at all inside the bag, beer cannot freely penetrate the hop pulp to extract the goodness.

So toss in your dry hops loose, so they can swim freely is best. Especially when used in large amounts, like in NEIPAs.

After dry hopping, I stir the beer once or twice a day. I drilled a 1" access hole in the lid I can stick the back end of my long plastic brewing spoon through. It has a small rectangular paddle on that end. It helps bringing the dry-hop pulp in suspension. I do all that while streaming a gentle flow of CO2 through the airlock stem, so no air can get in. Only takes about a minute.

All hop pulp, yeast and trub will settle at the end of fermentation and even more completely during cold crashing.

 

[wepeeler]

Today (at 17:00) i've checked the wort. Its 1.018 now (46 hours after yeast was pured into the wort) (So OG: 1.070, this afternoon: 1.018).
What do you think, can my yeast ferment it to 1.012 or maybe better 1.010?
I've also put the first amount of dry hop into the fermentor. I divided my amount of hops into 2 equal parts. I've used 130g of hop during brewing, i put 85g of hops today, and i will put the rest 85g few days later. So at all 100g Galaxy, 100g Amarillo, 100g Citra.
I've also tasted it in the measurement cylinder. It seemed cloudy (very very cloudy XD) but i can only taste a bittter taste (bitter of hops) and yeast (not bad taste, the same when i'm cooking bread or some home made pasta. So the original yeast taste). Should i taste the juicy-fruity flavors now?

P.s. the yeast was at the top of the wort it created a high foam layer. Is it ok?

Let it go man, I wouldn't touch it for 2 weeks. Toss in loose pellets when dry hopping. The vegetal parts (not all but most) will drop out of suspension during the 2nd week in the primary. You'll get some into the bottle, but it won't hurt anything. As of now, what you're tasting will most likely be much more bitter and yeasty than you can expect for your final product. Relax dude, as long as everything is sanitary, you'll have very good, drinkable beer.

 

[adam88]

Thanks all! When you suggest the second dry hopping?
(I have starsan in a spray-bottle. I use it even if i touch the bucket from outside XD)

 

[wepeeler]

Thanks all! When you suggest the second dry hopping?
(I have starsan in a spray-bottle. I use it even if i touch the bucket from outside XD)

I would do your 2nd dry hop about 3-4 days before kegging/bottling. Ask 5 people and you'll get 5 answers, but I've been happy with a few days before kegging.

 

[adam88]

Okay. And if i add the second part of hop, shall i remove the previous amount?

 

[wepeeler]

Okay. And if i add the second part of hop, shall i remove the previous amount?

Nope. Dump it all in. Are you planning on transferring to a bottling bucket before bottling? Just try to leave behind as much debris as possible.

 

[adam88]

I did not plan that because i'm trying to avoid oxygenisation as much as possible :/
Should i transfer it into another bucket before bottling?
(I'm planning to use a bottling syphone)

 

[wepeeler]

I did not plan that because i'm trying to avoid oxygenisation as much as possible :/
Should i transfer it into another bucket before bottling?
(I'm planning to use a bottling syphone)

That's where I was going with this. You need to add priming sugar to your beer while bottling. The trub is going to be a factor if you plan to use the same vessel. I guess you could add carbonation drops to each bottle, but I've never done it, so I'm the wrong one to ask, sorry.

 

[Jag75]

Yes you take 5 oz of priming sugar dissolve in 2 cups boiling water . Put in your botteling bucket . Then transfer your beer to the botteling bucket. Leaving g behind the trub. Then I would purge that botteling bucket with co2 if you have a way. Then use your botteling wand and fill. If I were you I would purge each bottle with co2 , fill then purge again then cap. If you have a soda stream it works great . However botteling a NEIPA isnt something I would do. If I do it just to bottle from a keg and drink it same day.

That priming sugar amount is for 5 gallons.

 

[Dgallo]

5 oz of priming sugar is too much for this style. You’ll want to use 3.75-4 oz. For 5 gallons that will give you roughly 2.3/2.4 volumes of co2 which will benefits the mouthfeel.

I wish I read this forum earlier to help you with the yeast info. London III is a yeast where you really need to drive the fermentation temps to truly get the peach ester profile. Pitch at 65, let it go to 68-70 the first 2 days, then try to push it 72-74 until active fermentation is over. Then you want to do a rest at 70-72 for it to clean itself up 48-72 hours. Driving the fermentation provides a clean, peach ester profile.

 

[Jag75]

5 oz of priming sugar is too much for this style. You’ll want to use 3.75-4 oz. For 5 gallons that will give you roughly 2.3/2.4 volumes of co2 which will benefits the mouthfeel.


I wish I read this forum earlier to help you with the yeast info. London III is a yeast where you really need to drive the fermentation temps to truly get the peach ester profile. Pitch at 65, let it go to 68-70 the first 2 days, then try to push it 72-74 until active fermentation is over. Then you want to do a rest at 70-72 for it to clean itself up 48-72 hours. Driving the fermentation like provides a clean, peach ester profile.

Shoot didn't know that ,thank you for the info. I have to jot that down .

 

[Dgallo]

Shoot didn't know that ,thank you for the info. I have to jot that down .

Esters develop under stresss. Driving the temp like that will stress them enough to produce esters but will keep it clean.

For the Priming sugar, always add what you will need for your desired volume of c02 for each style of beer. I use this calculator https://www.northernbrewer.com/pages/priming-sugar-calculator
Doing this elevates the overall perception of your finished beer

 

[Jag75]

I had no idea that volumes and such went hand in hand with botteling . I thought it was just kegging and psi of co2 in a keg at a certain temp. Good stuff man . I'm saving that link.

 

[adam88]

Hello All!
Thanks for all your help!(again!)
I had luck because i started pitching at the mentioned temp (64). The recipe i've read told that let the wort cool to 63-64, pitch the yeast and let the wort go to temp 70 by itself! Then the fermentation will raise thr temp naturally a bit and when fermentation will be over mostly, itt will go back to 70 72. I've checked this and i had luck cuz' this was the way of the fermentation! This was an another article i followed: https://byo.com/article/neipa-style-profile/

But maybe i made a mistake. When i spoke about hops... i meant hop-pellets. So i do not have whole hops but hop pellets(small pellets). Even in this case it is recommended to not put the pellets into anything but into the wort itself?
Also i'd like to ask when to transfer the beer into another bucket? The same day Before bottling? Or a few(how many) days earlier?
If i do it in the following way, it will be ok?-> clean the new bucket and use starsan on it, then purge it with co2, transfer beer with a bottling syphone, put on the top, push in some co2 over the beer.

 

[Dgallo]

Also i'd like to ask when to transfer the beer into another bucket? The same day Before bottling? Or a few(how many) days earlier?
If i do it in the following way, it will be ok?-> clear the new bucket and use starsan on it, then purge it with co2, transfer beer with a bottling syphone, put on the top, push in some co2 over the beer.

Your going to want to rack your beer into the bottling bucket right before bottling. Make your priming sugar solution first and put that in your sterilized bottling bucket Then rack your beer on top with your process you mentioned. This will eliminate the need for your to stir the beer and help avoid to avoid oxygen. As stated by someone earlier, oxygen negatively effects all beer, but it’s effects on heavily hopped beers can be catastrophic on flavor. Another thing that will help eliminate oxygen at time of bottling warmer. You said your beer will be 72 at that point so that’s good, just make sure your bottles are warm too.

P.S. - This is a total side note but In the future you should think about a kegging system. Especially if you will continue to make NEIPA’s. No matter how hard you try eliminating oxygen, the process of bottle conditioning will always expose your beer to more oxygen then if you kegged. Bottling involves at minimum one more transfer and the headspace left in the necks of the bottle will always get forced into your beer as they are conditioning. This is all for a future conversation. Good luck finishing out this brew.

 

[adam88]

Yes, i know that a keg system is better (or necessary), but it has a quite high cost in my country, so i'd like to get the equipment from step by step.

 

[Jag75]

Kegging is costly at first . If you have any way to get a soda stream it could be beneficial to your botteling.

 

[IslandLizard]

But maybe i made a mistake. When i spoke about hops... i meant hop-pellets. So i do not have whole hops but hop pellets(small pellets). Even in this case it is recommended to not put the pellets into anything but into the wort itself?

99% or more of hops used are pellets. They're very OK to use, also smaller and easier to store than whole hops. Store hops in the freezer (!) in their original mylar or multilayer O2 barrier bags. Eliminate air contact during storage. Some will vacuum seal the bags or flush with Nitrogen (I flush with CO2 to expel the air) before returning/storing in freezer.

Again, do not dry hop in bags, unless... [what I wrote before].

Remember, wort becomes beer after you add yeast.

Get yourself a copy of Palmer's How to Brew, 4th Edition. I can't urge beginning brewers enough to read and study up before brewing. That book is the single, most comprehensive guide to homebrewing.
In a pinch you can get a lot of information from his old 1st edition, online. But it is a bit dated so newer techniques are not covered. The principles of brewing, however, haven't changed.

 

[IslandLizard]

Yes, i know that a keg system is better (or necessary), but it has a quite high cost in my country, so i'd like to get the equipment from step by step.

What is your source of CO2, do you have a tank with a regulator? If so, you're half way to kegging.

Kegging is costly at first . If you have any way to get a soda stream it could be beneficial to your botteling.

Isn't Sodastream one of the most expensive sources of CO2 in the world?

If i do it in the following way, it will be ok?-> clear the new bucket and use starsan on it, then purge it with co2, transfer beer with a bottling syphone, put on the top, push in some co2 over the beer.

Clearn the bottling bucket, rinse, then sanitize.
A bottling bucket has a small (plastic) spigot, a faucet, near the bottom, onto which you fasten a piece of hose and a "bottling wand."

Flushing or "capping" a bucket with CO2 is pretty much futile. Gasses mix rather quickly especially in large, wide, open containers. You may give each bottle a short puff of CO2 right before filling it.
You'll need to use a bottling "wand" (a narrow plastic tube), that fills bottles from the bottom. Most have a small spring loaded valve on the bottom that opens when you push it onto the bottom of the bottle, and closes when you pull the wand out when the bottle is full. You can then give the small headspace left above the beer in the bottle a quick puff of CO2 right before putting and crimping the cap on.

For NEIPAs, hoppy beers in general, kegging IS the best way as you can eliminate most air (O2) contact. You can also drink it a few days after filling, while bottles take 2-3 weeks to carbonate.

 

[Jag75]

It's a cheap at first solution as you can find used or new soda stream . You can get a soda stream for about 45$ . Just for purging bottles . Kegging is cheaper long run but takes more up front money. Tank 130$ , kegs 65 -99$ . Then you need lines and a kegerator or keezer / fridge to keep it cold . I forgot you need a regulator as well. I dont know if the OP has any source of co2 . If he doesnt then that gonna be a chunk of change to get going.

 

[adam88]

Hello All!

Yes, i have soda stream (for human use) and i had a planted tank which is not working now, so i have 2kg co2 bottle (i guess it filled to half now with a regulator) I'll use the co2 if im going out of co2 i will use sodastream.
I'm planning to have a keg in the future. Now i will have to work without keg but with co2

 

[Jag75]

If you have a co2 tank I'd definitely use that. Dont know where your at but here I switch an empty tank for a full one for 12$

 

[adam88]

If you have a co2 tank I'd definitely use that. Dont know where your at but here I switch an empty tank for a full one for 12$

Unfortunately im in Hungary (and not in the capital) so its a bit harder and more expensive to refill, but i will. Its not a problem if this co2 bottle is not for human use but for welding, isnt it?(i guess co2 is just co2)

 

[adam88]

The beer has 1.014 gravity now. I hope the best

 

[Jag75]

The beer has 1.014 gravity now. I hope the best

Awesome let us know . Post a pic if your able

 

[adam88]

I've added the last amount of hops this afternoon. I added co2 to the bucket after i closed it. I'm in fear for oxygenation
The taste was much better than last time! It tastes "strong" (I've calculated a bit over 7% alcohol from the gravity).

 

[adam88]

Hello All,
So, the beer in the bottles now. First taste will be next weekend. Total hops used: 300g (100-100-100 amarillo, citra, galaxy) . OG: 1.070, FG: 1.014.
First i used another bucket before bottling. I've "starsan'ed" it, and used co2 before the beer and after pouring the beer too. Then purged the bottles with co2 (after using starsan), poured the beer into the bottles with a bottling syphone, and add more co2 to the "top" of the beer. I'm still in fear for oxygenation
I've used starsan on everything. I've used co2 too. I hope the best (i will upload pics)

 

[Jag75]

Hello All,
So, the beer in the bottles now. First taste will be next weekend. Total hops used: 300g (100-100-100 amarillo, citra, galaxy) . OG: 1.070, FG: 1.014.
First i used another bucket before bottling. I've "starsan'ed" it, and used co2 before the beer and after pouring the beer too. Then purged the bottles with co2 (after using starsan), poured the beer into the bottles with a bottling syphone, and add more co2 to the "top" of the beer. I'm still in fear for oxygenation
I've used starsan on everything. I've used co2 too. I hope the best (i will upload pics)

Awesome man gonna be a nice beer @ 7.35 abv . My mouth is watering thinking about it . I'm thinking of brewing another one .

 

[IslandLizard]

Hello All,
So, the beer in the bottles now. First taste will be next weekend. Total hops used: 300g (100-100-100 amarillo, citra, galaxy) . OG: 1.070, FG: 1.014.
First i used another bucket before bottling. I've "starsan'ed" it, and used co2 before the beer and after pouring the beer too. Then purged the bottles with co2 (after using starsan), poured the beer into the bottles with a bottling syphone, and add more co2 to the "top" of the beer. I'm still in fear for oxygenation
I've used starsan on everything. I've used co2 too. I hope the best (i will upload pics)

Very good!
You've done all you can to prevent or at least reduce air/O2 contact. Let them carb up and enjoy!

P.S. There's no shame in (frequent) testing to see if they have carbed up yet, or what their current flavor and aroma is as it progresses.

 

[Dgallo]

Very good!
You've done all you can to prevent or at least reduce air/O2 contact. Let them carb up and enjoy!

P.S. There's no shame in (frequent) testing to see if they have carbed up yet, or what their current flavor and aroma is as it progresses.

Absolutely. When I was bottling I would always run a test with at least 5 beers. Once I found the best profile/carb, they would all go in cold storage. It’s the only way to know when they’re on their prime

 

[adam88]

So, taste is good (but its my first meeting with a neipa and i did not want a challange winner beer )
But i do not know what should i think about the color. Maybe its darker than it should because of oxygen? (2nd pic with external lighting)

 

[Jag75]

Well glad it taste good . I think your right about the color . Looks oxidized . this isnt kegged right, its bottled ?

 

[adam88]

Yes, its bottled. Bottling bucket was purged with co2, then every bottle was purged with co2 too and when bottle was filled, i poured some co2 on the top of the beer too.
I have to drink it XD But it tastes good.
Okay, its not for sale and its not a winner beer, but at first "sight" it seems good for me.
If it wasnt oxidized, shall it taste very different?

Ps. My co2 set from planted tank will moved to a keg system, i also ordered a beer tap. If i'm right i just need a keg and some tubes for it.
Then I'll have to convince my gf to have a keg system in the flat :S:S XD

 

[Jag75]

Maybe they're not all like that . As long as it taste good man .