My First Lager Starter

[paulster2626]

Brewing a Lager this weekend, and I'm going to get the yeast started tonight.

I plan on brewing a standard 1.048 OG lager, but I have a couple questions:
1) Since this is a lager yeast, do I put my starter in a cool environment, or is the usual countertop setup fine?
2) Mr. Malty wants me to use 2.5 gallons for the starter for a 5.5 gallon batch. Isn't this hilarious? 2L is good enough, right?

 

[brewd00d]

You should put your starter at the same temp it will be fermenting.

I never did any starters on mine and the OG's were around 1.056 I never had a problem.

Is it dry yeast or liquid?

 

[Yooper]

It's fine to do a lager starter at room temperature, after all, you're growing yeast not making beer.

But about three days before brewing, you'll want to chill the starter so you can decant off the spent wort. Lager yeast takes more than 24 hours to fall out, unlike most ale yeast strains.

You want a pretty big starter for a lager, but a 2L is probably "good enough" (not ideal but probably ok) if you have fresh healthy active yeast. If you're only make a 2L starter, you could skip the chilling/decanting and try to pitch the yeast at high krausen.

 

[944play]

Snicker, Mazda wants me to put 4 quarts of oil in the crankcase. 2 pints is plenty, right?

 

[paulster2626]

Snicker, Mazda wants me to put 4 quarts of oil in the crankcase. 2 pints is plenty, right?

If your car was 2000lbs, would it not be alarming if you were supposed to add 1000lbs of oil to it? Building straw men is fun.

Thanks Yooper - helpful as always. I'll go with 2.5L and hope for no overflows.

 

[Airborneguy]

Room temperature if fine, and will actually grown the yeast quicker.

As for size, I've believe Mr. Malty goes way overboard and because of that, haven't even looked at it in ages. I know Jamil knows his stuff, so he must have some reason for believing we need that much yeast, but as with many other aspects of this hobby, I find that there's another perfectly acceptable answer. I've only had one lager that I felt needed more yeast, and I rushed that starter, so it was my own fault.

I typically do 1.5L starters, but will probably use double that when I make my upcoming bocks.

 

[944play]

False analogy, not strawman. But the point is, lagers need a lot of yeast.

 

[Yooper]

False analogy, not strawman. But the point is, lagers need a lot of yeast.

I agree. I'd make it as big as possible, and step it up if you can. With a 2L starter, it may be fine, but you're better off with going closer to an optimum pitch rate if you can.

 

[paulster2626]

Well, it's full. I have nothing else to step this up to - so 2.5L it is. We'll see how she goes.

I plan on lagering this one for a while, and it won't be cracked until my first child is born in May. Then I can get started on that placenta mash that someone mentioned here a while ago...

 

[bighorn_brew]

Well, it's full. I have nothing else to step this up to - so 2.5L it is. We'll see how she goes.

I plan on lagering this one for a while, and it won't be cracked until my first child is born in May. Then I can get started on that placenta mash that someone mentioned here a while ago...

Just curious...Have you run the numbers on how much the fermentables are going to cost you vs. purchasing another smack pack or sachet of yeast? Just wondering cause I am planning on doing a lager soon, and want to pitch a starter or a extra yeast packet to ensure good fermentation...

 

[revolutioned]

Do a gallon w/2 packets at ferm temps. Not room temp. For 24 to 48 hrs cool in fridge 6 to 12 hours and pour liquid off of top. Shake and match to whort temp.

 

[Malticulous]

Noonan said 2L is the correct size and he is right.

 

[revolutioned]

For a stir plate yes that is right, if not he is not.

 

[Malticulous]

No, simple starter. I'm not saying Fix (Mr. Malty's numbers) was wrong, just that pitching more than the 2L starter is only going to speed things up by hours. Proper step up is anywhere from 4x to 10x.

 

[revolutioned]

A big starter is the way to go. I know it sounds crazy, but it works I swear.

 

[revolutioned]

I cut mr malty in half with 1 gal

 

[daksin]

If you make a 2.5 gallon starter, you're not pouring 2.5 gallons of liquid into your wort, maybe a tenth of that, like a pint which should be slurry, something like 80% yeast cells.

You should be chilling your starter in the fridge to floc out the yeast, decanting the crappy beer that sits on top, and then warming the yeast to pitching temp and pitching.

2.5 gallons is a perfectly reasonable starter for a lager, and it's what you should be pitching.

 

[Malticulous]

like a pint which should be slurry, something like 80% yeast cells.

Narziss says 100 ml slurry is enough.

Kai wrote that determining yeast amount based on the volume of yeast sediment is more practical. Growth in a starter has too many variables. Shaking it a little every few minutes for the first six or more hours can make a big difference.

The big breweries don't decant. They use the same wort and ferment close to the same temperature. They don't waste anything.

 

[paulster2626]

Just curious...Have you run the numbers on how much the fermentables are going to cost you vs. purchasing another smack pack or sachet of yeast? Just wondering cause I am planning on doing a lager soon, and want to pitch a starter or a extra yeast packet to ensure good fermentation...

Don't need to - here in Canada a wyeast smack pack is $10. The 1 cup and a bit of DME is maybe a dollar, probably less. I wash all my liquid yeasts when they're done so I don't have to buy them ever again. When this one is done, I'm going to grow the bejezzus out of it and try to get a full mason jar of yeast cake..

My 2.5L starter is progressing nicely. I don't have a stir plate (yet!), so it's just getting shaken up whenever I see it. So far the yeast cake is just under an inch in the flask - my biggest so far. These yeast seem happy.

 

[johngie]

The reason Jamil’s starter size is so large is because he advocates pitching cold (45f or so) and letting the beer raise to fermentation temp (50f).
Whitelabs/Wyeat suggests pitching warm (60-65f) and gradually cooling to fermentation temperature.

That is where the difference lies, pitching temperature.

There is a BN Sunday Session episode with Chris White and Jamil debating the two methods.

 

[Malticulous]

I don't think Noonan or Narziss talked about warm pitching. Noonan wrote the starter should be 10-20% of the volume the of the wort it's pitched into and pitched at 42-50F (and made from similar wort.) He also focuses more on the volume of slurry saying to use .4 to 1 oz per gallon, 1 oz being for worts over 15P.

 

[revolutioned]

You guys are over thinking it. Make a big ass starter at ferm temp. Lower the temp for a few hours and decant extra fluid off of the top. Pitch at same temp as wort. It works, I assure you