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augiedoggy said:
You could... is your box an electrical enclosure or repurposed box of some kind... Its not really needed but it can make things easier.. I mounted everything to the enclosure myself.
Click to expand...

its an electrical enclosure

what would one of those boards be called? i am having an impossible time trying to find a search term to use!
 
HumulusHead said:
its an electrical enclosure

what would one of those boards be called? i am having an impossible time trying to find a search term to use!
Click to expand...

They're called backplates. They're basically just a metal plate. You can make your own and then put bolts through the bottom of the panel and use a nut to create some standoff distance.
 
augiedoggy said:
You are kind of counterdicting yourself here... You state you would rather wait for shipping times vs pay a 35% markup at radioshack for aurduino stuff yet you state at the same time you would rather order your parts from ebrew or auberins ..
Click to expand...

With arduino the prices are more than a couple of dollars than your little terminal strips and what not. I bought from Auberins for support pure and simple. When I first started with PID's i bought a Sestos and had an issue. The help responses I got here were, we all use Auberins and are not familiar with the Sestos. As for ebrew I order on Tues I have it on Friday, none of this weeks crap.

You should learn to chill....
 
Most items from eBay I got in a week. The basic USPS international service is pretty quick, even from China.

But Augie, you do need to be OK with people ordering where they want. We get you're trying to let people know they can be cheap, but jeeeeeez.

Isn't everyone here a rich engineer, too? Well, besides me.
 
BlkWater_brewer said:
You should learn to chill....
Click to expand...
I did actually price out my control panel and what it would have cost to buy the cheapest alternatives from aubrins.... they didn't have some of the stuff like the 24v power supply, pwm speed controllers or the volt/amp that I have but even when including that stuff vs buying what they did have would have spent just over $350.00 MORE at auberins. No exaggeratation. Considering my control panel only cost me between $280 and 300 total that's a very large markup. And well over 100% considering I'm including my total build cost vs just what they actually had..

Certainly a lot more than the $8 or so markup RadioShack charges for an arduino uno and seeing how the terminal strips they had started at $2.50 a piece I'm not sure how much cheaper you could find them online... I paid $5 for mine at the home depot.
For the record I made an impulse buy before doing my homework too and have a celcius only Rex c100 sitting in a drawer with a j type thermocouple... it worked fine but I did not want to convert from celcuis... after that I started googling and checking the specs on my purchases... to me that wasn't a big deal and it was well worth the Money I saved. I understand why you went the route you did and I'm Just explaining why I didn't so others can make a better informed decision.
 
iijakii said:
They're called backplates. They're basically just a metal plate. You can make your own and then put bolts through the bottom of the panel and use a nut to create some standoff distance.
Click to expand...


Now that I hear that word, it makes perfect sense! I'd be embarrassed for you to see my google search history of what I thought they were called bahaha
 
iijakii said:
Most items from eBay I got in a week. The basic USPS international service is pretty quick, even from China.

But Augie, you do need to be OK with people ordering where they want. We get you're trying to let people know they can be cheap, but jeeeeeez.

Isn't everyone here a rich engineer, too? Well, besides me.
Click to expand...

I dont mind where people buy stuff as long as they are honest about it. I do mind when they try to skew things to rationalize to others to do the same... I was just trying to make it clear and known that aubers markup isnt the "couple of bucks" everyone keeps telling people it is... The numbers tell a completely different story. Its actually right about twice the price or more on everything they sell pertaining to homebrewing... If someone want to pay that for fast shipping and so they have someone tell them how to install it thats fine.

Blackwater was the one who had the issue with the OP buying a $3 terminal strip from radioshack because of the markup yet in the same post suggested buying from a place like auberins who charges much higher markups themselves. This seemed hypocritical and yeah I had an issue with what I see as incorrect information. and these incorrect perceptions get parroted all over the forum without anyone actually looking at what auber is selling and what they charge compared to others.. This is also the reason so many have an incorrect perception of everything sold on ebay... I honestly thing many people think ebay is a store and everything comes from the same seller.. people that dont read descriptions well or buy from someone with terrible feedback that are bitter about it turn around and slam ebay for it. Yet many people who get overcharged for stuff dont want to even entertain the notion of it, instead they often rather take comfort in getting others to do the same How is that right?
 
I'm kinda excited for the brew day when I don't have to make a run to fleet farm or the grocery store or the gas station to get propane.

Tested out my immersion chiller in my new keggle. On my kettle the connections would sit above and outside of the kettle. Forgot they leaked a little bit. Now the connections will actually be inside the keggle. So I had to make a run to fleet farm to get some new more water tight connections.

Good thing I thought to check my propane right before I left. Probably wasn't enough left so I'm gonna get that filled too.

Electric is sounding awesome right now
 
HumulusHead said:
I'm kinda excited for the brew day when I don't have to make a run to fleet farm or the grocery store or the gas station to get propane.

Tested out my immersion chiller in my new keggle. On my kettle the connections would sit above and outside of the kettle. Forgot they leaked a little bit. Now the connections will actually be inside the keggle. So I had to make a run to fleet farm to get some new more water tight connections.

Good thing I thought to check my propane right before I left. Probably wasn't enough left so I'm gonna get that filled too.

Electric is sounding awesome right now
Click to expand...
I'm planning on brewing a smoked ESB indoors this evening :) It is soo nice not to be freezing outside right now.
 
On the upside it's 34 degrees out today. Super sunny. No wind. I would be brewing outside today with electric. Farking beautiful.

Hopefully I will upload a pic of my new keggle :)
 
So I'm beginning to dry fit my control panel together. Seems my panel is gonna be pretty tight...

I can make everything fit, but I could save some space if I left out the bulky contactors. Could anyone tell me why I wouldn't want to not use the contactors?

To me they appear to be switches. Which also is what the SSRs appear to be. It's like it's double switched. But I'm prob missing something here.

Any opinions??
 
SSRs can fail in a stuck ON position. A contractor will allow you a way to turn off the current to the element while leaving the rest of the panel on.
 
I have a circuit breaker on each one of my elements. Chances are if the SSR fails stuck on, i'll notice it after a few minutes and brew day will end up being over. If it was salvagable, I could just turn that leg off.
 
stlbeer said:
SSRs can fail in a stuck ON position. A contractor will allow you a way to turn off the current to the element while leaving the rest of the panel on.
Click to expand...


Why not just use a selector switch after the SSR? So if SSR is on and you want power to element, turn switch to on. And if you don't want power to element but SSR is still on, just turn switch to off?
 
That is fine if you can find another kind of switch that can handle the current. 30 amps is quite a bit and it would be best to kill both legs of the 240v so that is a double pole switch too.
 
TungstenBeer said:
So that relay works OK? I've come across these before but passed over them because the load rating is at 277 VAC (which I believe is some sort of 3 phase).
Click to expand...

Yep - 30A @ 277VAC rating exceeds 30A @ 240VAC so they are fine :mug:

  • I use the 240VAC coil version for the main contactor
  • I use the 24VDC coil version for the element, so I can include float or flow switches in seriess with the coil to prevent dry firing
 
Thanks! I don't know why I never thought of that. Anyway I'd be getting the 120vac coil version, but thanks again!
 
So I'm at the stage where I have almost everything I need to complete my control panel sans wiring. Which I will pick up once I get my control panel put together.

I picked up a couple relays to take place of my bulky contactors to make things fit better in my box.

Now I'm just debating my initial design. Ugh.

As of right now I have 1 PID that will control my HLT so that my strike and sparge water will be at exact temps. That was my main goal of this whole thing. That PID will also control the BK via a selector switch.

Question is, should I just add one maybe two more PIDs while I have the box under construction anyways? I have the money available so that's not an issue. Just honestly not sure I could benefit too much from the added PIDs. I know I'll want a 2nd one in the future to control rims/herms. Looking more towards a rims system at this point. So I'll most likely incorporate for sure a 2nd PID into my system.

But a 3rd PID? Is it necessary? My initial PID can control HLT and then BK. This could be split into 2 PIDs but I figure why not just kill 2 birds with 1 stone?? 2nd PID can be used for controlling Rims option in future.

If you remember, I'm not going for full auto here. Just want more precision and ease when reaching/keeping temps. That's why I'm still even debating on adding rims/herms

Anybody have an opinion on this? What would you guys do?
 
If you have a pid for HLT control now you would use that same pid for herms control since its the temp of the hlt that controls herms output temps ultimately.

I would say if you intend on going with a rims then yes I would add a second pid... the boil kettle can easily be controlled with an ssvr and a potentiometer or a pid with manual mode... There are some advantages of the pid here like setting a temp just below boiling and setting the alarm to prevent an unnoticed boilover but depending on whether your old school and are frustrated by pushing a few buttons vs turning a knob the advantages may not outweigh your preference here. (This is a highly debated and defended topic by both sides)
 
augiedoggy said:
If you have a pid for HLT control now you would use that same pid for herms control since its the temp of the hlt that controls herms output temps ultimately.
Click to expand...

Well maybe I would want to go herms then if I am thinking about this correctly.

Is this how herms works?

Coil in HLT. Mash water pumped through coil. HLT PID is set to mash temp (say you are mashing at 150, so set HLT PID to 150). Mash stays at 150 degrees?

If that is how it works, a guy really would only need one PID and could control all three processes?!?! 2 would be more convenient i suppose tho
 
HumulusHead said:
Well maybe I would want to go herms then if I am thinking about this correctly.

Is this how herms works?

Coil in HLT. Mash water pumped through coil. HLT PID is set to mash temp (say you are mashing at 150, so set HLT PID to 150). Mash stays at 150 degrees?

If that is how it works, a guy really would only need one PID and could control all three processes?!?! 2 would be more convenient i suppose tho
Click to expand...

So if this is the case, you really wouldnt be monitoring the mash temp via a PID?? at least not the PID that is controlling the HLT. Sound correct?
 
HumulusHead said:
Well maybe I would want to go herms then if I am thinking about this correctly.

Is this how herms works?

Coil in HLT. Mash water pumped through coil. HLT PID is set to mash temp (say you are mashing at 150, so set HLT PID to 150). Mash stays at 150 degrees?

If that is how it works, a guy really would only need one PID and could control all three processes?!?! 2 would be more convenient i suppose tho
Click to expand...

Yes thats exactly how it works... I started with two that actually controlled elements and one that was just being used to monitor temps of my mashtun output for reference.
keep in mind you also have to come up with a way to recirculat the water around in your HLT or you develop hot spots and uneven water temps in the hlt...
 
Yup, once you get your temperature delta figured out there's really no need for a PID in the MLT. Might have to set HLT to 152 to get 150 in the mash for instance, but once you have that heat-loss figured out it's pretty static.

I'd go ahead and do a second just incase you run a RIMS like you mentioned. It's also nice to have one in the BK I find for heating water, knowing how close to boil you are, etc. Not necessary, but it's convenient. I know how slippery a slope all of this is though. One minute you have a single PID setup with home depot toggle switches and the next you're running three PIDs, illuminated push buttons and everything is ****in' stainless bling.

...not that it's happened to me multiple times or anything...
 
iijakii said:
Yup, once you get your temperature delta figured out there's really no need for a PID in the MLT. Might have to set HLT to 152 to get 150 in the mash for instance, but once you have that heat-loss figured out it's pretty static.

I'd go ahead and do a second just incase you run a RIMS like you mentioned. It's also nice to have one in the BK I find for heating water, knowing how close to boil you are, etc. Not necessary, but it's convenient. I know how slippery a slope all of this is though. One minute you have a single PID setup with home depot toggle switches and the next you're running three PIDs, illuminated push buttons and everything is ****in' stainless bling.

...not that it's happened to me multiple times or anything...
Click to expand...


I hear ya there. My initial idea of this was to make it super cheap and simple. The more I look into all the options the more I want. I gotta keep pulling myself back to keep inline with my initial plan.

The more I think about it the more the herms option interests me, but I flip back and forth between herms and rims daily it feels like. But those options will be decided in the future any ways.

I think I'm gonna settle on one PID for the HLT and one PID for the BK. The PID on the BK will be my splurge item since I could really control it just fine from the HLT PID. Who knows. Maybe I'll do just that and use the 2nd PID for just monitoring.

I'm definitely not going to do a third. Don't even have the room on my CP to do a third anyways.

Slippery slope sure is right man
 
augiedoggy said:
Yes thats exactly how it works... I started with two that actually controlled elements and one that was just being used to monitor temps of my mashtun output for reference.

keep in mind you also have to come up with a way to recirculat the water around in your HLT or you develop hot spots and uneven water temps in the hlt...
Click to expand...


Would you even recommend recirculating in the HLT if not doing a herms setup right away?

If I do need to do some sort of recirc I'm going to be using them small dc pumps you use
 
There's no point in recirculating the HLT unless youre using it to heat the mash in some manner. Just stir it every once in awhile while heating. Otherwhise your probe might read 150F but closer to the element its 170. Pump isnt needed for that.
 
I recirculate my HLT with my RIMS set up. I've seen 20 degree stratifications before from top to bottom when I had the same kettle on propane. Now there is none.
 
Its been a while since I've updated this, but that is due to lack of work being done on my setup :( I got some money so I've been acquiring a few parts here and there that I've needed, and will be updating my price cost post.

Hopefully this weekend i can get the wiring to the garage done, since I have finally settled on a way I want to do that.

I will be running 30A220V to my garage from the main breaker panel. 30A breaker in main panel. HHNG outlet in garage. Then I will be wiring my spa panel in-line to save on some costs. Will be buying a 35' generator extension cord I found on ebay. Cheapest thing i could find. Its about 2 bucks a foot and comes with the correct plugs on each end. I will splice in the spa panel about 5 feet from the outlet, and will hang that on the wall near the outlet. I will then have about 30 feet of cable going to my control panel. I decided i wanted to go this long because I am going to be brewing next to the garage door so that I don't need to worry about moisture problems.

There will be a flanged outlet on my CP. The power cord will have nema locking connectors on both ends, for future owners if that ever happens. From the CP out, i will be using the aviation connectors that augie pointed me too. nice and cheap!! and waterproof!!

after I run the wiring, I hope to start wiring up my CP, since I believe i have everything i need, except for the wire. I'm going to pick that up at HD this weekend if I get around to wiring this bad boy up.

I've pretty much landed on my final decision on how i will be controlling the whole system. I have been waffling since I started this thread, but I think i've decided now.

My control panel will have 2 mypin PIDs with 25A SSRs and heatsinks. One PID will control HLT and one PID will control the BK. I have decided that I will go HERMS in the future so I have set my system up in prep for that. I will eventually install a coil in the HLT and I will be recircing the HLT somehow (havent decided this yet) so that the HLT temp will essentially be the Mash temp when the mash is circulating.

I bought 2 small DC computer fans for air circ in my CP. One will blow in and one will suck out. Directly in line with each other accross the heatsinks in the CP. I bought a small DC transformer that will power these.

I will be using 30A 3 pin aviation connectors found on ebay for my element power out of the CP. I am basing my element power to be exactly like kals, but i will incorporate waterproof 30A 3 pin aviation connectors at the outlet box at the kettles. This way all cords will be detachable from my kettles AND from my CP.

I just decided that I will be adding pumps pretty much right away, but will be going with the cheap tan pumps from ebay. I will also outfit the whole setup with QDs and tubing. I am going to use 2 of these pumps, and I will design it so i can detach and attach the hoses to perform my various transfer needs.

I ended up deciding to go with pumps instead of my initial plans of doing a three tier system based largely on really wanting to incorporate CIP. I'm really excited for this feature!!!
 
augiedoggy said:
if your talking about the wiring to your switches,indicators and pids you can get it at radioshack in a three color kit (18awg is more than enough for the 1/2amp load ) Pump wiring should be 14 awg. You can get multiple thicknesses at home depot... including the 12 or 10 awg for the element wiring. I bought 10awg there myself for my latest panel since it will generate less heat and be less likely to "loosen at the connection points" as people have told me has happened to thiers... technically if the insulation is of the correct type you can use 12 awg and some say even 14awg (I wouldnt) for the 18-23 amp element load.

Then of course you also have the "wire kit" from harbor freight which is about $40 and has all the wire you should need if you dont care about color... There is no certifications on the wire though so many here believe its dangerous since the insulation type and value is unknown... Then again there isnt much that everyone here does agree on so... I used a lot of this wire in my main brew panel built over a year ago and had it apart to add something last week... The wiring all looks as good as the day it was installed despite being told it would turn white and have the insulation fall of in short order.

I did source my heavy wire from the home depot for my latest build though because I plan on selling it.
Click to expand...

I have a question for you, or really anybody that happens to read this thread ha.

I want to know if I am in the right on my thinking here.

I bought a DC transformer. The line in side says something like 110v 5 amps. Not positive on that, but its close enough for my question. Am i right thinking that I can hook that directly to one leg of my 220v 30amp and to the negative line? I guess i read somewhere that something will only draw as much as it was rated for? That sounds great, but I want to know for sure before I go messing with large power like this.

I assume that if this is fine, I can add say a 5 amp fuse in there just to be safe, but I want to make sure that generally an object will only draw as much as it is designed for.

I have this same question for all of my smaller things in the panel that are not rated for the full 30 amps, like switches and lights.
 
HumulusHead said:
I have a question for you, or really anybody that happens to read this thread ha.

I want to know if I am in the right on my thinking here.

I bought a DC transformer. The line in side says something like 110v 5 amps. Not positive on that, but its close enough for my question. Am i right thinking that I can hook that directly to one leg of my 220v 30amp and to the negative line? I guess i read somewhere that something will only draw as much as it was rated for? That sounds great, but I want to know for sure before I go messing with large power like this.

I assume that if this is fine, I can add say a 5 amp fuse in there just to be safe, but I want to make sure that generally an object will only draw as much as it is designed for.

I have this same question for all of my smaller things in the panel that are not rated for the full 30 amps, like switches and lights.
Click to expand...

As long as you mean the neutral when you say "negative line" then, yes. the only place this can cause a problem is an imbalance that can trip the GFCI but the variables are so many, the only way to know is to try.
 
Onkel_Udo said:
As long as you mean the neutral when you say "negative line" then, yes. the only place this can cause a problem is an imbalance that can trip the GFCI but the variables are so many, the only way to know is to try.
Click to expand...


Yes that's what I mean ha. See! I should be careful about this stuff!

But finding out by trying is not what I hope happens ha....

Another question for you. I'm running an estop like pj usually does. It's an estop button with some resistors that supposedly leaks "a little" current to trip the breaker. Does this mean it should trip my spa panel? Or my main breaker? Leaking a little current to trip a breaker sounds like it may be dangerous???

Is there another way to go about this? Or is it perfectly normal to do it this way?
 

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