My Day IPA - Recipe review and hopping recommendations please

[WestMichBrewer]

I'm a fan of Founders All Day IPA and wanted to brew my own lower-gravity IPA (not a clone).
I thought I'd mix and match a few styles and processes along the way and hopefully come up with something good.
Here's what I have:

3.5 gallons
OG 1.045

4.25 lb American - Pale 2-Row 73.5%
0.5 lb American - Munich - Light 10L 8.6%
0.5 lb American - Caramel / Crystal 20L 8.6%
6.5 oz Rolled Oats 7%
2 oz German - Acidulated Malt 2.2%

Mash high - 156 maybe

I bought these hops:
2 oz Amarillo
1 oz Cascade
1 oz Centennial

US-05

I tentatively plan to use first wort hopping for bittering (50 IBU) and flavor, then the remaining in dry and/or keg hops (recently bought a couple tea balls).
Cascade and Centennial are well known to me, but I havent used Amarillo before.
I have a few leftover hops (US fuggle, santiam, spalt, liberty) I could utilize to bump bitterness and therefore reserve extra for the later dry/keg additions.

How does it sound and how would I best utilize the hops for my brew?

Thanks in advance!

 

[WestMichBrewer]

Ok, I get it...My recipe looks so perfect nobody wants to comment for fear of being ridiculed right off the site.
...or everybody is about sick of "please help me with my IPA hops".

I won't be brewing this one for a month or so anyway, but here's what I came up with for a hop schedule:

Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU
0.3 oz Amarillo Pellet 8.6 First Wort 16.37
0.1 oz Cascade Pellet 6.5 First Wort 4.12
0.1 oz Centennial Pellet 9.9 First Wort 6.28

0.4 oz Santiam Pellet 6.9 Boil 50 min 15.92
0.3 oz Spalt Pellet 3.5 Boil 50 min 6.06

0.7 oz Amarillo Pellet 8.6 Aroma 0 min
0.4 oz Cascade Pellet 6.5 Aroma 0 min
0.4 oz Centennial Pellet 9.9 Aroma 0 min

1 oz Amarillo Pellet 8.6 Keg Hop
0.5 oz Cascade Pellet 6.5 Keg Hop
0.5 oz Centennial Pellet 9.9 Keg Hop

Total IBU of 48.75

 

[Transamguy77]

Do you have more of your 50 mins hops? I would add a couple .03 those amounts and use them for your FWH and use your Amarillo, cascade and centennial for a 10 minute addition or just add them to your flame out addition, they will make a better aroma addition than bittering one.

 

[ProblemChild]

I like the path taken with the grain bill. a little heavy on crystal, especially since the oats will add body on top of the sweetness, but you are going the right direction in my mind.

Be mindful of your gravity/bitterness ratio. Simply put, you want fewer IBU points than you do OG gravity points. Should probably be closer to 40 IBU.

For first wort, a combination of hops will yield little with regard to actual flavor - especially at that low concentration. A single hop is fine. A low gravity hoppy ale is about flavor, so you might as well stick with your higher AA hop and get all bitterness there. A FWH and a 50 min addition places most of that brew to bitterness instead of glorious hoppy flavor.

Move the 50 min to 20 min. Those two hops are arom ahops anyway.

 

[WestMichBrewer]

Do you have more of your 50 mins hops? I would add a couple .03 those amounts and use them for your FWH and use your Amarillo, cascade and centennial for a 10 minute addition or just add them to your flame out addition, they will make a better aroma addition than bittering one.

No, that's all I have, but do have a couple other varieties of leftovers I could use for additional bittering.

 

[WestMichBrewer]

Thanks for the discussion guys!

I like the path taken with the grain bill. a little heavy on crystal, especially since the oats will add body on top of the sweetness, but you are going the right direction in my mind.

Be mindful of your gravity/bitterness ratio. Simply put, you want fewer IBU points than you do OG gravity points. Should probably be closer to 40 IBU.

That sounds like a good rule of thumb.
I looked at the the IBU:OG ratio and wondered about it because it was >1.
I was hoping it'd balance out, but it is hard for me to predict how much sweetness I'd actually end up with with the lower OG, even with the heavy crystal and if mashing higher.
I can adjust bittering down a bit, but considering the sweetness I might get, should I?

I should also mention that the grain bill is already in my possession, milled and bagged, so too late to adjust there.

For first wort, a combination of hops will yield little with regard to actual flavor - especially at that low concentration. A single hop is fine. A low gravity hoppy ale is about flavor, so you might as well stick with your higher AA hop and get all bitterness there. A FWH and a 50 min addition places most of that brew to bitterness instead of glorious hoppy flavor.

Move the 50 min to 20 min. Those two hops are aroma hops anyway.

I do want to make sure I get a lot of flavor!
My understanding was that FWH did provide some flavor along with the smooth/round bitterness.
I wanted the flavor to come strictly from the Amarillo, Cascade and Centennial, which is why I used the leftovers for the 50 minute addition. And I added those just so I'd have more of the aroma hops left for dry/keg hopping.

 

[aprichman]

Claims that FWH makes any difference in aroma, flavor, or bitterness quality have been largely debunked. You will get more IBUs from FWH since the hops are exposed to high temperatures for longer.

If you're wanting to make something close to All Day IPA you will need all the Amarillo, Centennial, and Cascade for whirlpool and dry hop additions. Bitter to ~30 IBU and add 2 ounces of your aroma hops at flameout. If you're able to cool quickly you can dump them in immediately. If you use a water bath or other slower cooling methods add the hops when temperatures are slightly above 180°F.

The other 2 ounces need to be used for a dryhop. For a highly aromatic beer two dry hop additions of 1.5+ ounces should be used, one before fermentation is complete and then one a few days before packaging. Using 1 ounce and dry hopping twice would probably be the best route with what you have on hand.

 

[WestMichBrewer]

Thanks guys. I'll adjust my plan based on your input and report back here after I brew and sample.

 

[WestMichBrewer]

Thanks guys. I'll adjust my plan based on your input and report back here after I brew and sample.

Took me a long time to get around to this. I had the incredients in my fridge all summer and finally brewed it a few weeks ago.
I apologize for asking for, but not really taking the advice given by you guys.
With the long time since putting this thread out here, I forgot to come back and adjust my recipe!

However, the beer turned out great, easily the best IPA I have made to date.
It's a little less dry than All Day, but certainly not sweet.
Does it have as much aroma? Not sure, probably not quite, but I haven't A/B'd them either.
All around good stuff...and I can appreciate the lower alcohol.

I stuck with the grain bill and hopping schedule above, but bumped up the amount and pushed the spalter and santiam hops ino FW for additional bittering due to the age of the hops.

0.4 oz Amarillo Pellet First Wort
0.1 oz Cascade Pellet First Wort
0.1 oz Centennial Pellet First Wort
0.4 oz Santiam Pellet First Wort
0.3 oz Spalt Pellet First Wort
(Forgot to put these into the pot when lautering, but added between first and second runnings)

0.7 oz Amarillo Pellet Aroma 0 min
0.4 oz Cascade Pellet Aroma 0 min
0.4 oz Centennial Pellet Aroma 0 min
Stirred in the pot while cooling

1 oz Amarillo Pellet Keg Hop
0.5 oz Cascade Pellet Keg Hop
0.5 oz Centennial Pellet Keg Hop
Packed all the hops into two tea balls in the keg, maybe too much for those little tea balls so probably not getting the most flavor/aroma from them.
Results are good so I shouldn't worry too much.
I don't plan on changing this recipe at all when I re-brew, which I will.
I have never brewed a recipe a second time unchanged, but if I want an IPA in the keg, I will brew this.
Having the same lefover hops will not be likely though!