My Barleywine is Barleysyrup- Attentuation Problem

[eaverycale]

Short version: SMaSH Barleywine is stuck at 25% attenuation.

Long version: Firstly, this is my first post- I made my profile primarily to post this, actually- so hello all, I look forward to becoming part of this community. Anyway, if you are up to reading this then please relax, be patient, and have a homebrew, because I like to include details and this is the long version.

Here is the problem. I have a Barleywine, OG 1.110, and after two weeks in primary it was only down to 1.08. No off smells nor signs of infection. I am using WLP810, and had full faith in the ability of this yeast to go to town and get me down to ~1.03. This faith was based upon the fact that I used yeast from the same vial to take a Wee Heavy from 1.116 down to 1.03. Obviously this did not happen. For reference, my recipe:

SMaSH Barleywine:
5lbs Maris Otter
.25oz Northern Brewer (6.9 AA)
WLP810 (Yeastcake from previous batch)

One gallon batch.
Mashed overnight, starting at 155. I mashed using ~3 gallons of water. Wort was sg 1.05 preboil. Then I reinfused the mash to collect wort for a second-runnings bitter. Boiled three hours, down to .5 gallons at a specific gravity that was too high for my hydrometer to measure, then diluted with second runnings until I had 1 gallon of wort. This was pitched onto a yeastcake of WLP810.

Now to the confusing bit. This yeastcake was left from a second runnings Light Scottish Ale or 60/- (OG 1.04 FG 1.016). As with this batch, the 60/- was from a Partigyle brew day, when I made a Wee Heavy and the 60/-. For both those beers I used WLP810 built up gradually through a series of starters, pitching a one quart starter for the Wee Heavy and a one cup starter for the 60/-. The Wee Heavy, as mentioned, fermented perfectly, as did the 60/-. Naturally, I expected this yeast to work just as well on my Barleywine.

So.

What gives?

Too long a boil? Overnight mash? I am at a loss and your mercy. Please help me Homebrewtalk, you're my only hope.

 

[SLFcentralOH]

I'm not to a point where I can offer any sound advice, but those that have the experience would benefit knowing some more details. Most importantly what the wort has experienced post boil in terms of time and temperature.

 

[JonBrew]

As above post mentions, more detail would be needed to really get to the bottom of it.

However, based on what you've said, sounds to me like your wort has been heavily caramelised and the yeast cant break the sugars down. This might not be the only factor but certainly sounds like it will be contributing to the problem.

What was your post boil volume?

 

[didinho]

did you oxigenate the wort? it would not be determinant as in the yeast cake there are enough cells to ferment, but maybe is a point..
wich is the fermentation temperature?

I would try to put a bag of fresh yeast in it, no other idea...

 

[fnbrew]

My gut feeling says to check your hydrometer and thermometer for accuracy. I've had both fail and it took me a while to figure out.

 

[BeardedBrews]

That's quite a boil!

I remember hearing Palmer say something about keeping your boil-off rate below 15% / hour to reduce melanoidin formation. Rates up to 25% (2 gallons / hour while doing a small 8-gallon batch) don't seem uncommon.

If I'm reading your numbers right, you would have needed to boil the 2.5g of 1.050 wort all the way down to 1 gallon just to hit the 1.110 number. I'm not sure mathematically that you could have gotten to one gallon of 1.110 by doing a dilution with second runnings.

Either way, I'd say whatever volume you boiled to was basically un-fermentable caramelized sugars unless you took that boil SUPER SLOW. The drop to 1.080 was probably the fermentation of that second runnings and may be all you'll ever get.

 

[eaverycale]

Post-boil and before dilution, my wort gravity was literally too high to measure. My hydrometer floated on top of the sample. The volume was about a half gallon.

I started fermentation at the higher end of WLP810's suggested range, at 62-64 degrees. This I left for 24 hours, and observed the airbubbles, then I moved the bucket to an outer room, where I allowed temperature to fall to ambient temperature, around 55-57.This I left for a week before taking my first gravity reading, and by that point I was at 1.08, and it has not dropped since. This was three weeks ago.

My supicion is that either 1) Ambient temp dropped more than expected, as our weather here in Arkansas was up and down for a while and I may have missed a drop down to 50 or below, and the yeast went dormant, or 2) I waaaaaay over caramelized.

A week or so ago pulled a bit and pitched new yeast for a fast fermentation test, I will check the results tonight.

Update: Fast ferment test reveals......it is a no go. Still at 1.08, and now with a definite lactic smell.

 

[JonBrew]

If you have over caramelised the wort, which is what sounds most likely, I understand that adding crushed beano tablets to it may help break down some of the sugars to allow the beer to ferment out a bit more. I've never used beano myself so cant offer and detail.

 

[NoIguanaForZ]

For comparison, I've had a couple vaguely similar problems. I had a Smoked Honey Imperial Porter, chronicled here, defiantly stuck at 1.039 FG when I was going for 1.030 (off 1.128 OG), and that was with a ~five hour boil including reduction of a portion of first runnings to syrup, which I believe scorched a bit. (~65% attenuation instead of ~75% like beersmith was predicting). So, apparently extended boils can affect attenuation...on the other hand, that was for a longer boil time than yours, with more concentrated boiling for part of it, and considerably less of an effect.

On yet another hand, I just bottled a vaguely-baltic-porter-y experimental beer designed to test out a particular specialty malt combination, boiled from 7.42 gallons down to 3.43, and it had 72.9% attenuation as of bottling.

On still another hand...

...I think need to get my water checked. O.O