Munich in Robust Porter: Thoughts?

[HerbieHowells]

I love robust porter, although my one attempt early in my brewing days was a disaster (don't bottle if you don't have time to carefully sanitize every bottle). I'm ready to give it a go again, and have started looking at recipes.

As with any style, the recipes go all over the place, but I am noticing a split between those that use Munich (Brewing Classic Styles, Radical Brewing, Avery, apparently Sierra Nevada and Rogue per the websites) and those that don't (John Palmer, Bee Cave, Edmond Fitzgerald, Anchor, Black Butte per the websites).

I'll probably end up running side by side tests, and I'll try to get back with results. But for the time being, I was wondering if anyone had opinions about the place of Munich in a good robust porter? What does it bring to the party, and does the rich malt you expect from Munich actually stand out from the caramel and roasted flavors?

 

[HerbieHowells]

OK, looks like some research needs to be done on this matter.

I found an interview with Gordon Strong on porter. He suggested that you can (not should or must) add Munich or Vienna to a porter to "punch up" the malt, to add sweetness, and to try to balance out or offset some of the darker roasted flavors.

Gordon Strong is obviously a million times the brewer that I am, but I still think I am going to take this as a starting hypothesis rather than a given: Munich helps to add malt and sweetness, and to balance out the dark roast.

To test this hypothesis, I propose the following experiment, to be performed on my next brew day (which will probably be October 5). Brew one gallon of the Brewing Classic Styles recipe, which includes Munich. Brew one gallon of the same recipe, replacing all Munich with an equal weight of 2 row. Ferment with the same yeast, in the same swamp cooler, at the same time, to avoid fermentation flavor variables. If the hypothesis is right, the first brew should have more malty flavor, and should be a less harsh, better balanced beer.

 

[DSmith]

That's an interesting experiment. I've made the (all-grain) BCS robust porter as-is from the book and the CYBI Deschutes Black Butte porter (no Munich in that). I actually used the hops, yeast from the BCS robuts porter but just subbed in the CYBI Deschutes Black Butte porter grainbill because of similar OG's. Of the 2, the one with the CYBI Deschutes Black Butte porter grainbill is my favorite.

The BCS robust porter as-is from the book finished about 1.022 FG, it should have been mashed lower for more attenuation IMO.

 

[HerbieHowells]

Thanks for the pointer- I will keep that in mind. I've taken a look at the CYBI recipe, and I think I would ideally like my house porter to be a little simpler- four or five malts max. The difference between the two recipes is interesting, since in the Robust Porter podcast, Jamil says that his recipe should get you something similar to Black Butte. Therein lies the obvious error that is built into my experiment- Jamil had a taste in mind, and probably tweaked things quite a bit before hitting on it. Just taking away the Munich may just throw off hard-earned balance. But there's only one way to find out.

 

[RonPopeil]

for me Munich has a malty flavor that's very sweet. i could see it in a porter but i would be careful balacing crystal against it.

 

[HerbieHowells]

I will have to take a look at percentages to see if Munich corresponds with a drop in crystal.

 

[zachattack]

I've never considered Munich to taste sweet, and I think most people agree with me. Malty and bready, yes, but certainly not sweet. The melanoidins give it a flavor not unlike bread crust.

Think about the flavors of a classic (German, not Sam Adams) Oktoberfest: malty but still rather dry with a crisp finish. Or a dunkel, or bock. There's usually a good bit of Munich in those styles.

I'd think Munich would go great in a porter, as it would add a bready malt character without boosting the sweetness.

 

[HerbieHowells]

I tried Anchor Porter for the first time last night. As I said above, it is a no Munich porter- just pale malt, crystal, chocolate, black, and Northern Brewer hops. The beer is vary tasty, and is dominated by roast and hop. There very little malty flavor, probably less than I would ideally want from a porter, almost more what I would want from an American Stout. Based on that, I am predicting that the Munich will make a difference, and probably take it in a direction that I prefer.

 

[RmikeVT]

Results?!?!

 

[HerbieHowells]

Results?!?!

Unfortunately, life has gotten in the way of this one, and the double brew day hasn't happened yet. I have been paying attention to the ingredients of porters as I have drunk them over the last few months, and I have at least convinced myself that I can taste a difference- as I said with the Anchor, the dark roast flavor comes out stronger than it does with a Porter with Munich in there.

I will also note, however, that Jamil has done a Brewing with Style episode on Robust Porter, and I don't think that Munich came up once- he focused mostly on your choices of darker roasted malts and crystal malts. I also just found Jamil's BYO style write up on Robust Porter, and he seems to indicate that he likes to use Munich when using regular North American two-row, but maybe not when using British base malt.

If I ever get around to brewing the batches, I will let you know what I find.

 

[RmikeVT]

One of the more recent issues of BYO was all about porters and I just brewed Gordon Strong's award winning American Robust Porter which had the following. I have also read some follow ups and when using more black malt it was recommended using some munich/vienna to balance the astrigency of black malt with the the maltiness of the munich/vienna.

I converted the Recipe from 5g 65% eff to my 12g 85 eff:

5.5lb us 2 row
5.5lb marris otter
5.5lb vienna
1lb 13oz Munich
1lb 13oz C60
13 oz wheat malt
13 oz Choc malt
8oz Black Malt
1.5oz Northern Brewer 60 min
1.5oz Northern Brewer 10 min
1.5oz Cascade 2 min