Moving to e-biab

[Antonio Martinez]

I posted this over on biabrewer.info and am reposting here to make sure I get various opinions. I've grown tired of having to fill propane tanks and being limited by weather. I'm looking at a custom Spike 15 gallon kettle with triclamp ports for the element, 5500w ripple, and a Blichmann Brewcommander for the controller and paying for a NEMA 14-30 conversion to avoid an the need for an adapter to fit my receptacle. I'm planning to pick up a false bottom with adjustable legs from Brewers hardware to keep my bag away from the heat source. I'll also be wiring in a GFCI breaker with 10 gauge 4 conductor wire to make sure everything is safe and up to code. Can anyone think of something I'm missing?

 

[MikeCo]

I recently built an electric BIAB kettle and circuit as well, planning to brew in my heated basement-level garage. One thing I still need to figure out is steam ventilation. Make sure you can vent the steam if brewing indoors. It won't be a problem for me in the warm weather, but on cold days, the moisture condenses and runs down the walls. I'll either install a window I can run a fan out of or get a condenser like the steam slayer.

 

[Antonio Martinez]

@MikeCo my going in plan is to use a couple fans to push steam outside via my garage door. One blowing across the kettle and the other closer to the edge of the garage to help pull it out. Do you think this will be enough to vent the moisture?

 

[MikeCo]

If your garage door can be open, I don't think you'll have any problem. I assume you live in a warmer climate than I do. I have brewed in my garage with propane in the spring, summer and fall with the garage door open and have no issues with condensation. It's just when it's really cold in the winter that it's an issue for me.

 

[Antonio Martinez]

Yeah I'm in Georgia so although it does get cold, day time temps are never really a problem. My biggest issue is ground water temp for cooling, especially in summer.

 

[MikeCo]

The only other thing I can think of is the potential need to recirculate the mash. Do you know how much volume you will have above and below the false bottom in an average mash? I don't plan to recirculate at least to start out, but I'm not planning on a false bottom. If you search, you will find other threads discussing this topic; I don't have any experience to recommend re-circulation one way or another.

 

[micraftbeer]

I think recirculation is a key improvement in process. When you think about a setup with electric controller, you have the ability to really truly control your mash temperature. You can be specific, set it, and let the controller do the work to get that specific temperature. That means, if you like or don't like results, next time around you can do the exact same, or change it, and remove one variable that could cause differences in your finished beer.

So that being said, your controller only knows what the temperature sensor tells it. While you will get some natural convection with heated wort wanting to travel up and cooler wort wanting to travel down, you will have temperature stratification with the wort being cooler the further away from the heating element. Adding a pump into this moves all that fluid and helps get a more even temperature throughout the whole mash. The mash flowing by your temperature probe will be representative of the mash as a whole, and then your controller really is earning its worth by controlling to a set temperature and getting you that repeatability for next time.

 

[kh54s10]

If you are ordering a custom kettle you could look into adding ports for a steam condenser. You could also look at a basket instead of a false bottom and bag.

 

[Antonio Martinez]

The only other thing I can think of is the potential need to recirculate the mash. Do you know how much volume you will have above and below the false bottom in an average mash? I don't plan to recirculate at least to start out, but I'm not planning on a false bottom. If you search, you will find other threads discussing this topic; I don't have any experience to recommend re-circulation one way or another.

I have considered recirculating but I think I'm going to test out stirring every 15 mins during the mash before jumping into recirculation. I may end up going that way as I am also getting a pump to whirlpool/recirculate during chilling. For those that may be reading this has anyone used loc line attached to the kettle lid for recirculation? The false bottom I am looking at is 3 1/4 inches tall which would leave 2.76 gallons below and 13.71 gallons in contact with the grain in a typical mash with an OG of 1.053.

 

[Antonio Martinez]

I think recirculation is a key improvement in process. When you think about a setup with electric controller, you have the ability to really truly control your mash temperature. You can be specific, set it, and let the controller do the work to get that specific temperature. That means, if you like or don't like results, next time around you can do the exact same, or change it, and remove one variable that could cause differences in your finished beer.

So that being said, your controller only knows what the temperature sensor tells it. While you will get some natural convection with heated wort wanting to travel up and cooler wort wanting to travel down, you will have temperature stratification with the wort being cooler the further away from the heating element. Adding a pump into this moves all that fluid and helps get a more even temperature throughout the whole mash. The mash flowing by your temperature probe will be representative of the mash as a whole, and then your controller really is earning its worth by controlling to a set temperature and getting you that repeatability for next time.

Thanks for the reply @micraftbeer. As I mentioned to @MikeCo, I hadn't planned to start recirculating with a pump right away as I wanted to see how things went when stirring with the mash paddle every 15 minutes. I have looked into loc line and may end up attaching some to the lid of the kettle if I get tired of baby sitting the mash. Another concern I've had with recirculation is the speed at which it happens. I've read multiple times that drawing off of the bottom too quickly can lead to burnt beer and vacuums under the false bottom. What are your opinions on this? The riptide pump has a flow control built in so it likely wouldn't be too much work to get it right. Repeatability is really the main goal here outside of not dragging propane tanks around and having rain ruin a brew day.

 

[Antonio Martinez]

If you are ordering a custom kettle you could look into adding ports for a steam condenser. You could also look at a basket instead of a false bottom and bag.

I've seen a few of people mention this and my main reason on going with the fans instead, at least for now, is the requirement of using more water than I already use for my brew day. Unless I'm missing something thats the way I understood the steam slayer working. Are there others that don't require water to be sprayed on them? The baskets seem nice but I can't see a big advantage over my fabric filter to justify the cost of the ones I've seen. I'd likely end up with a false bottom anyway so that I could keep the chiller from resting on the element too.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

I posted this over on biabrewer.info and am reposting here to make sure I get various opinions. I've grown tired of having to fill propane tanks and being limited by weather. I'm looking at a custom Spike 15 gallon kettle with triclamp ports for the element, 5500w ripple, and a Blichmann Brewcommander for the controller and paying for a NEMA 14-30 conversion to avoid an the need for an adapter to fit my receptacle. I'm planning to pick up a false bottom with adjustable legs from Brewers hardware to keep my bag away from the heat source. I'll also be wiring in a GFCI breaker with 10 gauge 4 conductor wire to make sure everything is safe and up to code. Can anyone think of something I'm missing?

Tony, sounds like an exciting upgrade! We have people every day switch from propane to electric. Once you make the switch you'll wonder why you didn't do it years before! Have you seen our new turn key single vessel system that is coming out this spring?

https://spikebrewing.com/pages/ebiab

It sounds like it will have everything you're looking for in a complete package that'll be ready out of the box. Also we see the steam condenser option was mentioned as well. We will be releasing a custom steam condensing lid that can be purchased with the system or at a later date. As always let us know if we can answer any questions for you!

 

[Antonio Martinez]

Tony, sounds like an exciting upgrade! We have people every day switch from propane to electric. Once you make the switch you'll wonder why you didn't do it years before! Have you seen our new turn key single vessel system that is coming out this spring?

https://spikebrewing.com/pages/ebiab

It sounds like it will have everything you're looking for in a complete package that'll be ready out of the box. Also we see the steam condenser option was mentioned as well. We will be releasing a custom steam condensing lid that can be purchased with the system or at a later date. As always let us know if we can answer any questions for you!

I have seen the system mentioned around the forums, do you have an idea of the price point that you wouldn't mind sharing? Also, will the controller be setup for a 14-30 receptacle or the typical L6-30 that I see on most of the other controllers out there?

 

[micraftbeer]

Thanks for the reply @micraftbeer. I've read multiple times that drawing off of the bottom too quickly can lead to burnt beer and vacuums under the false bottom.

Great point, recirculation with a pump absolutely needs a valve on the pump output to control the flow rate. I had a setup that had a fancy fitting in the lid to spray recirculating wort on top of the grain. The only problem was to get a nice spray pattern out of it, the flow rate had to be pretty high. I burned my element a couple times with that, which made for a lot of scrubbing to get it clean. I learned my lesson and throttled it back to a more modest flow rate.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

I have seen the system mentioned around the forums, do you have an idea of the price point that you wouldn't mind sharing? Also, will the controller be setup for a 14-30 receptacle or the typical L6-30 that I see on most of the other controllers out there?

We don't have confirmed pricing yet but even the largest system will be sub $2k. The 14-30 is the wall receptacle where as the L6-30 is the twist lock for the element.

 

[MikeCo]

I've seen a few of people mention this and my main reason on going with the fans instead, at least for now, is the requirement of using more water than I already use for my brew day. Unless I'm missing something thats the way I understood the steam slayer working. Are there others that don't require water to be sprayed on them?

Yes, the steam condensers require a steady flow of water to cool and condense the steam. From what I've read, people use 7 to 10 gallons for a one-hour boil. In your situation being able to brew with your garage door open, you may not even need a fan. I don't use one when I brew in may garage with the kettle very near the door in the warmer months.

 

[Antonio Martinez]

We don't have confirmed pricing yet but even the largest system will be sub $2k. The 14-30 is the wall receptacle where as the L6-30 is the twist lock for the element.

Apologies, the 14-30 wall receptacle is what I was meaning to ask about. My understanding is that in a 240v/3 wire conductor configuration for main power then a separate power cord fed from a 120v outlet is required to power the pump/auxiliary outlets whereas with a 240v/4 wire setup with two hots, ground, and a neutral the need for a separate line to supply 120v power is eliminated. I'm assuming your systems main power will come from a 240v/4 conductor outlet such as is the case with NEMA 14-30 receptacle?

 

[SpikeBrewing]

Apologies, the 14-30 wall receptacle is what I was meaning to ask about. My understanding is that in a 240v/3 wire conductor configuration for main power then a separate power cord fed from a 120v outlet is required to power the pump/auxiliary outlets whereas with a 240v/4 wire setup with two hots, ground, and a neutral the need for a separate line to supply 120v power is eliminated. I'm assuming your systems main power will come from a 240v/4 conductor outlet such as is the case with NEMA 14-30 receptacle?

Correct. This way the controller can control the entire system without a second 110v receptacle.

 

[BeardedBrews]

I think recirculation is a key improvement in process. When you think about a setup with electric controller, you have the ability to really truly control your mash temperature. You can be specific, set it, and let the controller do the work to get that specific temperature. That means, if you like or don't like results, next time around you can do the exact same, or change it, and remove one variable that could cause differences in your finished beer.

So that being said, your controller only knows what the temperature sensor tells it. While you will get some natural convection with heated wort wanting to travel up and cooler wort wanting to travel down, you will have temperature stratification with the wort being cooler the further away from the heating element. Adding a pump into this moves all that fluid and helps get a more even temperature throughout the whole mash. The mash flowing by your temperature probe will be representative of the mash as a whole, and then your controller really is earning its worth by controlling to a set temperature and getting you that repeatability for next time.

I’ve been through several versions of my eBIAB journey, including a bag with a false bottom, and want to add a plus one to Micraft’s summary.

I was not happy with my results until I had open space between the element, temp probe, and grain bed, and until I had a way to keep the liquid around the element and temp probe moving reliably.

For me this meant biting the bullet and buying a basket, I just let my chiller sit directly on the element without issue. Even if you stay with a bag and stir (which will absolutely work) I would encourage you to recirculate the liquid under the bag while you mash. You could use the whirlpool port of you had one, just to keep that bottom liquid well mixed.

 

[Antonio Martinez]

@BeardedBrews where did you end up placing the temp probe? It seems people either go with a tee fitting at the lid or place it near the element. I see the logic with having it near the element to make sure the wort in this area isn't significantly hotter than your target/what it may be reading if placed elsewhere. Thoughts?

 

[BeardedBrews]

@BeardedBrews where did you end up placing the temp probe? It seems people either go with a tee fitting at the lid or place it near the element. I see the logic with having it near the element to make sure the wort in this area isn't significantly hotter than your target/what it may be reading if placed elsewhere. Thoughts?

Sorry I missed your post.

I tried using a tee at the kettle drain, but I didn't like the requirement that the pump be running to know the temperature. Instead I mounted through the kettle under the basket and away from the element a bit. This has been working great.

I use a hand held thermometer to check the temperature at the top of the mash occasionally, just to make sure everything is fairly even.

 

[Antonio Martinez]

No worries, glad to hear that this placement is working out since it's exactly what I was planning to do.

 

[kh54s10]

Sorry I missed your post.

I tried using a tee at the kettle drain, but I didn't like the requirement that the pump be running to know the temperature. Instead I mounted through the kettle under the basket and away from the element a bit. This has been working great.

I use a hand held thermometer to check the temperature at the top of the mash occasionally, just to make sure everything is fairly even.

I opted for the Unibrau's additional element kit. It has the temperature probe in the tee. I think it is fine there because I will be recirculating anyway. It will be drawing the wort from the bottom where it is likely hottest, running past the probe and returning to the top. It should equalize within a degree difference throughout the mash. I prefer not having it in the kettle.