More Inexperienced Question – Hopefully Not Dumb

[BeerSlinger]

Ok, my first time out, I took a little lump with the cooling and fermentation process and the temperatures that I keep in my house. I found out that I should probably run Lager in the winter and then Ale in the summer. I went back and looked after the fact and it was because that was a part of Parpazian’s book that I hadn’t reached yet because I just read the first chapter and I had the Jim Koch video from SA so I thought that was enough to do my first round of beer(WRONG!!!).

My first question and this maybe the dumbest because I just can’t find the answer: I now know what the environment temperatures for fermentation should be but I have found no mention of the temperatures for Aging of Ale & Lager, what are they? I can’t seem to find that in the book.

Next, I have to explain something about myself. Personally, if I’m going to try something new (like cooking, because I do all of it in my household) the first time I follow the recipe and then it usually bombs. The second time, I make the adjustments that I think are necessary, jot down some notes, throw out the recipe and fly by the seat of my pants. Usually when I quit trying to follow the directions once I know what I’m doing the result is much better.

So what I would like to do is just experiment with just a basic recipe of 6 lbs of extract then play with the different hops combinations to see what they are all about. To me, until I know what they all taste like; it’s going to be difficult to know how best to layer hops and other ingredients in a recipe of my own. Then later I after I get a couple hundred gallon under my belt, I’ll think about mashing. Although from my experience its best to “Keep It Simple” so I’m doing just that by just experimenting with Hops, Syrups, Honeys, Fruits, Vegetables, Herbs and Spices. Then I’ll look into grains later.

Ok, the next question my not be quite so stupid because this is about manually controlling gravity. Personally, I’m an Ice beer Drinker and I would like to get the gravity to the equivalent of what I normally drink. So, if I work with the recipe I have experienced:

5 Gallons of Water
6 Pounds of Extract
6 Grams of Yeast
¾ Cup of Corn Sugar

What would I change to increase the gravity to make it more desirable so how would you push the specific gravity toward 6%? Please bear in mind that I’m going to change to Mutons Powder Extract (because of cost and shipping), and possibly white labs liquid yeast (not decided on that, but I’ve been hearing whispers that its good stuff). So if you make adjustments to my basic formula, the original was done with the beginners Mutons Liquid Extract and Powder Yeast.

 

[Torchiest]

As far as gravity goes, specific gravity is the density of beer versus water. Unfermented beer usually is somewhere between 1.045 and 1.060, although it can go WAY higher than that, sometimes up to 1.195. The thing that affects the starting gravity is the amount of malt you have. The more you add, the heavier the wort is.

Fermentation lowers the specific gravity, and most finished beers have a final gravity beteen 1.005 and 1.015, although, again, they can be higher for heavy duty beers. The difference tells you how much percent alcohol you have in the beer.

The way to get a higher alcohol content content, therefore, is to add more malt to the wort when you first brew. There's more to it, but that's the basic idea. I hope that answered your question.

 

[debtman7]

My first question and this maybe the dumbest because I just can’t find the answer: I now know what the environment temperatures for fermentation should be but I have found no mention of the temperatures for Aging of Ale & Lager, what are they? I can’t seem to find that in the book.

It's yeast dependent, and you should be able to look up the yeast you are using to find the optimal ferment temperature. In general 68-72 degrees for an ale, around 50 degrees for a lager. There are oddballs though, like wyeast california common which is a lager yeast that can go to the mid 60's.

So what I would like to do is just experiment with just a basic recipe of 6 lbs of extract then play with the different hops combinations to see what they are all about. To me, until I know what they all taste like; it’s going to be difficult to know how best to layer hops and other ingredients in a recipe of my own. Then later I after I get a couple hundred gallon under my belt, I’ll think about mashing. Although from my experience its best to “Keep It Simple” so I’m doing just that by just experimenting with Hops, Syrups, Honeys, Fruits, Vegetables, Herbs and Spices. Then I’ll look into grains later.

You might want to invest in some 1 gallon glass cider jugs and airlocks. Brewing that many variations with 5 gallon batches would take forever

Ok, the next question my not be quite so stupid because this is about manually controlling gravity. Personally, I’m an Ice beer Drinker and I would like to get the gravity to the equivalent of what I normally drink. So, if I work with the recipe I have experienced:

When you say Ice beer, do you mean like Bud Ice/Natural Ice? Or like an Eisbock?

Anyway the general premise of an ice beer is to brew a lower alcohol beer (low gravity) and then freezing out some water to concentrate the alcohol. You can do the same thing at home, although I'm not sure why, as you end up with a light beer with more alchol. Other than getting you drunk faster, I can't see much reason to replicate this procedure, unless you're going for a potent Eisbock style beer.

5 Gallons of Water
6 Pounds of Extract
6 Grams of Yeast
¾ Cup of Corn Sugar

What would I change to increase the gravity to make it more desirable so how would you push the specific gravity toward 6%? Please bear in mind that I’m going to change to Mutons Powder Extract (because of cost and shipping), and possibly white labs liquid yeast (not decided on that, but I’ve been hearing whispers that its good stuff). So if you make adjustments to my basic formula, the original was done with the beginners Mutons Liquid Extract and Powder Yeast.

The more fermentable sugars you have in the beer, the more alcohol you end up with. One thing to keep in mind is that dry malt extract is more concentrated, so 6 lbs of LME is roughly equivalent to 5 lbs of DME. You can use the calculator here to figure out the abv of your recipe: http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/recipe.html

 

[BeerSlinger]

I'm sure i'm going to light off a firestorm but I don't really want it because all I want to do is to talk theory.

As far as gravity goes, specific gravity is the density of beer versus water. Unfermented beer usually is somewhere between 1.045 and 1.060, although it can go WAY higher than that, sometimes up to 1.195. The thing that affects the starting gravity is the amount of malt you have. The more you add, the heavier the wort is.

This part doesn't suprise me, not in the least bit. Also I was reading early on in parpazians book that it can also be done by mixing corn sugar with the extract to make it denser. He has a whole chart laid out on the mixing proportions. Nonetheless, I figured it all had to come down to density.

Fermentation lowers the specific gravity, and most finished beers have a final gravity beteen 1.005 and 1.015, although, again, they can be higher for heavy duty beers. The difference tells you how much percent alcohol you have in the beer.

This I did not know...

The way to get a higher alcohol content content, therefore, is to add more malt to the wort when you first brew. There's more to it, but that's the basic idea. I hope that answered your question.

Just from the outside looking in....Wouldn't that increase the cost of the brew dramatically? I don't know the gravity of my current brew because I've only done original gravity but it would seem to me that it would almost double the cost to put that much malt in the mix.

 

[sonvolt]

My first question and this maybe the dumbest because I just can’t find the answer: I now know what the environment temperatures for fermentation should be but I have found no mention of the temperatures for Aging of Ale & Lager, what are they? I can’t seem to find that in the book.

Fermentation temperatures vary by yeast strain. I always look at the recommended fermentation temps when using a new yeast strain, and I try to stay near the bottom end of that spectrum. As for aging temperatures, Lagers should be aged as near freezing as possible. Ales, however, are traditionally held at "cellar" temps. Now, that is a very imprecise number. It is safe to age them in the 65-70 degree range, although "cellar temps" can mean something like 55 degrees. Some people even cold-condition their ales, but this process (as I've learned recently) is a bit controversial and is seen as a bastardization of ale brewing. In effect, it is "lagering" an ale and eliminating a lot of the complexm, fruity flavors associated with good ales. One more thing - the colder you age, the longer you should age. A beer aged at 65 degrees will mature faster than a beer aged at 35 degrees.

What would I change to increase the gravity to make it more desirable so how would you push the specific gravity toward 6%?

More extract=more gravity points. Be aware, however, that you should also add more hops as you add more malt extract. You don't want a beer that is out of balance. If you add more extract without adding hops, your beer will taste more malty.

Please bear in mind that I’m going to change to Mutons Powder Extract (because of cost and shipping), and possibly white labs liquid yeast (not decided on that, but I’ve been hearing whispers that its good stuff). So if you make adjustments to my basic formula, the original was done with the beginners Mutons Liquid Extract and Powder Yeast.

White Labs = meh? I went through a phase when I only used White Labs b/c I thought it was superior to any dry yeast on the market. This was true at the time. Now, I have found that strains from Safale, Saflager, Nottingham, and Windsor are just as good and much less expensive. Currently, I only use White Labs for those speciality yeasts that cannot be found in cheap, dried form. If you are seeking a neutral, clean yeast character, I suggest sticking with a good dried yeast. If you need a funky Belgian yeast character, you are going to have to pay the $$ and use a liquid yeast.

 

[Bobby_M]

5 Gallons of Water
6 Pounds of Extract
6 Grams of Yeast
¾ Cup of Corn Sugar

Well, if you use 6lbs of DME (dried malt extract), you'll have about 1.050 OG and a potential alcohol by volume of 5.4%

The 3/4 cup of corn sugar sounds a lot like what you found to be contained in many kits and that is really for bottle carbonation, not to be added to your pre-fermented wort.

You didn't list any hops. Was it because you didn't plan to use any or you just didn't think it would be relevent to the discussion? If you plan to leave out the hops, you technically aren't making beer.

 

[sonvolt]

Wouldn't that increase the cost of the brew dramatically? I don't know the gravity of my current brew because I've only done original gravity but it would seem to me that it would almost double the cost to put that much malt in the mix.

Yep! Stinks doesn't it? The only way you will save money is to move to all grain.

My dad has been a homebrewer since the Carter administration. He still buys LME and adds corn sugar like the directions in the lid tells him to do. His beer is terrible and he knows it! I can't get him to understand that if would stop adding that darn corn sugar and use some additional malt extract instead, his beer would be drinkable. He doesn't believe me.

I made the switch to AG brewing simply because of the cost of malt extract.

 

[Bobby_M]

Come on, adding an additional pound of DME is $3.

 

[debtman7]

Also I was reading early on in parpazians book that it can also be done by mixing corn sugar with the extract to make it denser. He has a whole chart laid out on the mixing proportions. Nonetheless, I figured it all had to come down to density.

Not density so much as it is fermentable sugar. The density is just a way of measure the amount of sugar in the wort.

Also, corn sugar is primarily used for carbonating bottles. During fermentation it can give some off flavors. If you want to boost alcohol content cheaply without increasing body, you'd probably be best to do what most major american macro brewers do - use rice syrup.

 

[sonvolt]

Come on, adding an additional pound of DME is $3.

That is a pretty good price. Unfortunately, the liquor store that sells a limited array of hb supplies in my area charges more than that. When ordering online, I have to add shipping, etc.

When I went AG, I cut the cost of brewing good beer nearly in half. Well . . . that is after I paid for all the new equipment.

 

[Blender]

I like the idea of using a basic recipe to examine the flavors and charactoristics of hops but your base recipe has no grains additions other than the extract. You should consider adding some additional grains in your recipe. 6 grams of dry yeast is not enough for a 5 gallon brew, it should be at leat doubled.

 

[Ol' Grog]

I was about to say that AFTER factoring in the cost of AG, it takes a while and quite a few batched to get the costs to be resonable. Plus, if you really add up all the energy requirements for AG brewing, is it REALLY that much cheaper? I look at extract brewing as making the whole process a lot more simplier and cheaper with regards to your time, energy required for heating/boiling, initial supplies and storing.

 

[BeerSlinger]

It's yeast dependent, and you should be able to look up the yeast you are using to find the optimal ferment temperature. In general 68-72 degrees for an ale, around 50 degrees for a lager. There are oddballs though, like wyeast california common which is a lager yeast that can go to the mid 60's.



You might want to invest in some 1 gallon glass cider jugs and airlocks. Brewing that many variations with 5 gallon batches would take forever



When you say Ice beer, do you mean like Bud Ice/Natural Ice? Or like an Eisbock?

Anyway the general premise of an ice beer is to brew a lower alcohol beer (low gravity) and then freezing out some water to concentrate the alcohol. You can do the same thing at home, although I'm not sure why, as you end up with a light beer with more alchol. Other than getting you drunk faster, I can't see much reason to replicate this procedure, unless you're going for a potent Eisbock style beer.



The more fermentable sugars you have in the beer, the more alcohol you end up with. One thing to keep in mind is that dry malt extract is more concentrated, so 6 lbs of LME is roughly equivalent to 5 lbs of DME. You can use the calculator here to figure out the abv of your recipe: http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/recipe.html

Thanks for the calculator........Yes, I drink natural ice and most other beer taste good but I end up drinking much more of them.......I notice a difference from a pale to black beer....

I did not know the difference between DME and LME.....I guess that was almost an implied question because that's been bugging me for awhile.....

 

[BeerSlinger]

I like the idea of using a basic recipe to examine the flavors and charactoristics of hops but your base recipe has no grains additions other than the extract. You should consider adding some additional grains in your recipe. 6 grams of dry yeast is not enough for a 5 gallon brew, it should be at leat doubled.

whoh, whoh, whoh.......I got a batch right now fermenting with only 6 grams......is this true? I only put one in because that's all I saw on the video by SA......

its been going for 4 days.......is it too late to add more?

WTF?

 

[BeerSlinger]

Fermentation temperatures vary by yeast strain. I always look at the recommended fermentation temps when using a new yeast strain, and I try to stay near the bottom end of that spectrum. As for aging temperatures, Lagers should be aged as near freezing as possible. Ales, however, are traditionally held at "cellar" temps. Now, that is a very imprecise number. It is safe to age them in the 65-70 degree range, although "cellar temps" can mean something like 55 degrees. Some people even cold-condition their ales, but this process (as I've learned recently) is a bit controversial and is seen as a bastardization of ale brewing. In effect, it is "lagering" an ale and eliminating a lot of the complexm, fruity flavors associated with good ales. One more thing - the colder you age, the longer you should age. A beer aged at 65 degrees will mature faster than a beer aged at 35 degrees.



More extract=more gravity points. Be aware, however, that you should also add more hops as you add more malt extract. You don't want a beer that is out of balance. If you add more extract without adding hops, your beer will taste more malty.



White Labs = meh? I went through a phase when I only used White Labs b/c I thought it was superior to any dry yeast on the market. This was true at the time. Now, I have found that strains from Safale, Saflager, Nottingham, and Windsor are just as good and much less expensive. Currently, I only use White Labs for those speciality yeasts that cannot be found in cheap, dried form. If you are seeking a neutral, clean yeast character, I suggest sticking with a good dried yeast. If you need a funky Belgian yeast character, you are going to have to pay the $$ and use a liquid yeast.

Ok......so if I have an ale at 60 degrees, how long should I let it age? 4 weeks?

I never thought about an unbalanced beer......that's a good point.......maybe i'll just stick with the lighter mixes until I try to really create something......

 

[BeerSlinger]

5 Gallons of Water
6 Pounds of Extract
6 Grams of Yeast
¾ Cup of Corn Sugar

Well, if you use 6lbs of DME (dried malt extract), you'll have about 1.050 OG and a potential alcohol by volume of 5.4%

The 3/4 cup of corn sugar sounds a lot like what you found to be contained in many kits and that is really for bottle carbonation, not to be added to your pre-fermented wort.

You didn't list any hops. Was it because you didn't plan to use any or you just didn't think it would be relevent to the discussion? If you plan to leave out the hops, you technically aren't making beer.

Basically yes, I didn't list any hops or other ingrediends because those are the X factor that I will change from one brew to the next.......I just listed the items that wouldn't change....

 

[Ol' Grog]

6 grams is fine. That's about all you get in those yeast packets from Muntons anyway and works great.

 

[BeerSlinger]

Yep! Stinks doesn't it? The only way you will save money is to move to all grain.

My dad has been a homebrewer since the Carter administration. He still buys LME and adds corn sugar like the directions in the lid tells him to do. His beer is terrible and he knows it! I can't get him to understand that if would stop adding that darn corn sugar and use some additional malt extract instead, his beer would be drinkable. He doesn't believe me.

I made the switch to AG brewing simply because of the cost of malt extract.

Really, that is my goal....I'm a little intimidated by mashing right now and I just want to get some real experience first.....

I've been reading about it for months and the first time out I was tought that there is no replacement for actual experience.....

 

[BeerSlinger]

Not density so much as it is fermentable sugar. The density is just a way of measure the amount of sugar in the wort.

Also, corn sugar is primarily used for carbonating bottles. During fermentation it can give some off flavors. If you want to boost alcohol content cheaply without increasing body, you'd probably be best to do what most major american macro brewers do - use rice syrup.

Rice syrup......I didn't know that......I will have to look into that because to me if the hootch doesn't kick then its a little dissapointing......

 

[Blender]

6 grams is fine. That's about all you get in those yeast packets from Muntons anyway and works great.

That's a matter of opinion.

 

[BeerSlinger]

6 grams is fine. That's about all you get in those yeast packets from Muntons anyway and works great.

Oh......phew.....that made me nervious to know that the hootch beside me was going to "Hell in a Handbasket".....

I had two packs....I just didn't add them because I wasn't told to......That's what I hate about recipes.......I'm a complete improvisor......and have become quite good at the documentation end of it to.......

 

[BeerSlinger]

That's a matter of opinion.

Ok, then give your opinion.......how much do you use and why do you use that much?

 

[Torchiest]

Just from the outside looking in....Wouldn't that increase the cost of the brew dramatically? I don't know the gravity of my current brew because I've only done original gravity but it would seem to me that it would almost double the cost to put that much malt in the mix.

Yes, it does increase the cost. But it also improves the flavor immensely, IMO. I generally prefer really heavy, strong ales, so it's worth it to me to put more malt into the mix. Also, in terms of pure alcohol consumption, it balances out to an extent because less beer gets you intoxicated faster. But for me, that's generally not the goal. I like to enjoy a small number of really premium beers, rather than a twelve pack of cheap stuff.

 

[BeerSlinger]

Yes, it does increase the cost. But it also improves the flavor immensely, IMO. I generally prefer really heavy, strong ales, so it's worth it to me to put more malt into the mix. Also, in terms of pure alcohol consumption, it balances out to an extent because less beer gets you intoxicated faster. But for me, that's generally not the goal. I like to enjoy a small number of really premium beers, rather than a twelve pack of cheap stuff.

That's the problem, I love the expensive stuff but it get's costly.......so your right......I like a 12 of the cheep or a case of the expensive.......it depends on how much cash I have.....

 

[debtman7]

Glad to see you like good beer, I was worried that natty light was what you wanted to brew, and that's a losing proposition.

LME = Liquid Malt Extract
DME = Dried Malt Extract

They are the exact same thing, only DME (powder) has had all the water removed whereas LME (syrup) still has some water. Since DME is 100% fermentables, whereas LME is somewhat water, by weight DME is has more sugar per pound and thus you need less of it. DME is also significantly more expensive, since it takes more effort to make, but it has a longer shelf life.

And if you really want to learn more about brewing, visit this site:

http://www.howtobrew.com/

This is an older version of the book, but it's free and has a lot of depth. You can probably safely skip the section on all grain brewing, since it can be overwhelming to start out with.

Cost wise, more alcohol does cost more. But once you get things down and can buy somewhat in bulk, it gets better. I mail ordered ingredients for two 6% beers, the caramel cream ale and a pale ale. The cost for this was $60 shipped. Sounds like a lot, but for 100 bottles of beer, that's $3.60 a 6 pack which rivals the cheapest beer you can find. And this stuff will actually be good

 

[Blender]

Ok, then give your opinion.......how much do you use and why do you use that much?

I think you need at least 150-200 billion cells of yeast to get a nice pitching rate. I don't think you get that from 6 grams of dry yeast. I use 12 grams from the Safale US 56 packet and make a starter from the liquid yeasts that I use.
I got some of my information here > http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php
and after reading many posts from far more experienced and better brewers that I am led me to this conclusion.

 

[BeerSlinger]

Glad to see you like good beer, I was worried that natty light was what you wanted to brew, and that's a losing proposition.

LME = Liquid Malt Extract
DME = Dried Malt Extract

They are the exact same thing, only DME (powder) has had all the water removed whereas LME (syrup) still has some water. Since DME is 100% fermentables, whereas LME is somewhat water, by weight DME is has more sugar per pound and thus you need less of it. DME is also significantly more expensive, since it takes more effort to make, but it has a longer shelf life.

And if you really want to learn more about brewing, visit this site:

http://www.howtobrew.com/

This is an older version of the book, but it's free and has a lot of depth. You can probably safely skip the section on all grain brewing, since it can be overwhelming to start out with.

Cost wise, more alcohol does cost more. But once you get things down and can buy somewhat in bulk, it gets better. I mail ordered ingredients for two 6% beers, the caramel cream ale and a pale ale. The cost for this was $60 shipped. Sounds like a lot, but for 100 bottles of beer, that's $3.60 a 6 pack which rivals the cheapest beer you can find. And this stuff will actually be good

Oh, I wasn't out to recreate the cheapest thing on the market, in fact quite the opposite, I wanted to brew because i'm tired of the cheapest thing on the market and the step up doesn't taste any better it just makes my wallet much lighter and get's me almost no where....

Personally, its way above my pay-grade but I really want to make a chocolate-carmel-roasted beer.....I've mentioned before in another thread that sam adams makes a couple (three actually, one I don't like) and I have gone absolutly berzerk over Sam Adams Cherry Wheat and that really tipped the scales.....

I'm probabily going to look to do wine and beer and I will probabily expariment alot with the fruit flavors and some of the more exotic. Personally, I'm dying to know what a dark cherry would taste like but that will have to wait for early summer.....My point was that I plan to make a lot of beer but I want to exparament with hops because I want to say that i'm putting it in for this reason.......whether it be fuggles or oak chips....

so that would make sense though if DME has more sugar.....then that extra pound would make all the difference in the world......

Right now i'm looking looking at these prices (and I want to buy in bulk because of shipping).....

-50lbs of DME @ $138
-50lbs of Corn Sugar @ $32

If anyone knows how to get it cheaper let me know......because even though I'm out to get away from the cheap stuff.....that doesn't mean that I want to be bled white while trying to chase a good beer recipe......

 

[BeerSlinger]

I think you need at least 150-200 billion cells of yeast to get a nice pitching rate. I don't think you get that from 6 grams of dry yeast. I use 12 grams from the Safale US 56 packet and make a starter from the liquid yeasts that I use.
I got some of my information here > http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php
and after reading many posts from far more experienced and better brewers that I am led me to this conclusion.

Oh, I will be sure to look into that before I pitch my next batch (which will be some time because I need more equipment)......But just from your explination, it seems logical......

Ok, let's go a little further into this because I know one thing that is going to bug the heck out of me is if I ever get a yeast cloud.....if you use more, don't you run a greater risk?

I didn't mean to do it but i'm almost making an argument for liquid yeast.......I didn't mean to but it has to be considered......

I would prefur to have everything on the table....

 

[debtman7]

Right now i'm looking looking at these prices (and I want to buy in bulk because of shipping).....

-50lbs of DME @ $138
-50lbs of Corn Sugar @ $32

50 lbs of corn sugar, you don't need that much. Corn sugar is only used for priming the beer for bottling, and that takes a small amount.

The grape and granary has 50 lbs of DME for $114 at http://www.thegrape.net/browse.cfm/2,1501.html shipping is always a factor.

I personally buy LME in smaller quantities. LME doesn't keep as long, but it's cheaper.

I get it here - http://www.brewbyyou.com/Malt Extract Liquid.htm $45 for 33 lbs. That works out to $1.36 a lb. The DME above works out to $2.28 a lb. An average batch that would use 6 lbs of DME would use roughly 8 lbs of LME (that'd be a little stronger), so that batch would be $13.68 for DME vs $10.88 for LME. $3 difference isn't much, but it adds up.

The advantage of spending more on DME is that it keeps longer. LME is only good for 2-3 months when bought in bulk. DME kept dry will keep for at least a year. But I can buy bulk LME in smaller batches so it works for me.

 

[BeerSlinger]

50 lbs of corn sugar, you don't need that much. Corn sugar is only used for priming the beer for bottling, and that takes a small amount.

The grape and granary has 50 lbs of DME for $114 at http://www.thegrape.net/browse.cfm/2,1501.html shipping is always a factor.

I personally buy LME in smaller quantities. LME doesn't keep as long, but it's cheaper.

I get it here - http://www.brewbyyou.com/Malt Extract Liquid.htm $45 for 33 lbs. That works out to $1.36 a lb. The DME above works out to $2.28 a lb. An average batch that would use 6 lbs of DME would use roughly 8 lbs of LME (that'd be a little stronger), so that batch would be $13.68 for DME vs $10.88 for LME. $3 difference isn't much, but it adds up.

The advantage of spending more on DME is that it keeps longer. LME is only good for 2-3 months when bought in bulk. DME kept dry will keep for at least a year. But I can buy bulk LME in smaller batches so it works for me.

Actually that price I quoted you was from the exact same place but it was 50lbs of muntons......I never looked into any other......I don't know what the difference in extracts are......

I was going to get that much sugar because I'm just going to store it.......I would rather have it hear and not have to worry about it vs having to order all the time......After I get it, I'm trying to get air tight containers to store it all......

Right now, equipment is the big issue since my first batch......

 

[Torchiest]

Right now i'm looking looking at these prices (and I want to buy in bulk because of shipping).....

-50lbs of DME @ $138
-50lbs of Corn Sugar @ $32

If anyone knows how to get it cheaper let me know......because even though I'm out to get away from the cheap stuff.....that doesn't mean that I want to be bled white while trying to chase a good beer recipe......

Brewing with corn syrup instead of DME would have you end up with something that tasted terrible. The malt is what gives beer its flavor. If you used only corn syrup, you'd have an awful tasting drink. It would have alcohol in it, sure, but it would be undrinkable, I think. I'm pretty sure it would be like a really nasty cider.

 

[BeerSlinger]

Brewing with corn syrup instead of DME would have you end up with something that tasted terrible. The malt is what gives beer its flavor. If you used only corn syrup, you'd have an awful tasting drink. It would have alcohol in it, sure, but it would be undrinkable, I think. I'm pretty sure it would be like a really nasty cider.

Corn syrup.......where are you getting that from?......Rice syrup was mentioned earlier but not corn.....

You mean corn sugar?........all I listed that for was as a primer.......I know that's alot of primer but like I said....I'd rather buy it once and not have to worry......

 

[Torchiest]

Sorry, I that my mistake. I meant to type corn sugar. Still, using corn sugar instead of DME would make a bad beer. It's only used sparingly to carbonate the beer when it's bottled, and a lot of home brewers don't even use it for that. I'm going to try DME for bottling on my next batch, as a matter of fact. Sorry for the mix up.

 

[the_bird]

Well, just as an FYI the 50lb bag of corn sugar, if only used to prime, will last you for about 160 5-gallon batches. It's entirely possible (some would say more tha likely) that long before you fill your 7,680th bottle, you'll be kegging...

 

[BeerSlinger]

Sorry, I that my mistake. I meant to type corn sugar. Still, using corn sugar instead of DME would make a bad beer. It's only used sparingly to carbonate the beer when it's bottled, and a lot of home brewers don't even use it for that. I'm going to try DME for bottling on my next batch, as a matter of fact. Sorry for the mix up.

Oh, I see, I only meantioned it because it was in the parpazian book.....

 

[BeerSlinger]

Well, just as an FYI the 50lb bag of corn sugar, if only used to prime, will last you for about 160 5-gallon batches. It's entirely possible (some would say more tha likely) that long before you fill your 7,680th bottle, you'll be kegging...

Well, I don't completely know right now.....I'm doing a little research into wine and I haven't asked the guys what types of sugar they use when they make a non-grape biased wine.....

Plus I also plan to expand into soda so there are many place for it to go......I just haven't done all of the academic and practical research on it......

 

[david_42]

Corn sugar can be used to boost the ABV without changing the malt or flavor profile. Using more than a pound in a 5 gallon batch isn't a good idea, because then the ABV/IBU ratio would be too far off.

You can use it in soda, but it will take a little experimenting on sweetness levels. Corn sugar is pure dextrose and many people find this less sweet than table sugar (sucrose).

50 pounds is a lot, in any case.

 

[BeerSlinger]

Corn sugar can be used to boost the ABV without changing the malt or flavor profile. Using more than a pound in a 5 gallon batch isn't a good idea, because then the ABV/IBU ratio would be too far off.

You can use it in soda, but it will take a little experimenting on sweetness levels. Corn sugar is pure dextrose and many people find this less sweet than table sugar (sucrose).

50 pounds is a lot, in any case.

Yes, I'm planning to stick to 5 gallons every step of the way for beer, wine will probabily be the same story. Since I have to fly by the seat of my pants with pop I will probabily just expariment in two liter and then kick it up to 5 gallon when I make one that I like.....

Oh, I didn't know that it was less sweat......I've been thinking about making a thread over just sugar on the winemakingtalk.com to see what the differences are between the different types....both for taste and usage......

 

[Yooper]

For what it's worth, when I make fruit wines, I use just regular table sugar boiled and dissolved in water for a simple sugar syrup. I never even thought of using corn sugar. Regular table sugar is cheap and easy, and very easy to find recipes for regular fruit wines.

Lorena

 

[BeerSlinger]

Corn sugar can be used to boost the ABV without changing the malt or flavor profile. Using more than a pound in a 5 gallon batch isn't a good idea, because then the ABV/IBU ratio would be too far off.

You can use it in soda, but it will take a little experimenting on sweetness levels. Corn sugar is pure dextrose and many people find this less sweet than table sugar (sucrose).

50 pounds is a lot, in any case.

Yeah, I've been struggeling with the names.....I've been thinking about starting a thread over sugar and the many types when I get closer to needing the knowledge......

That's something that I would like to put to rest....