Monster RIS

[archthered]

I want to make a massive Russian Imperial Stout. I have an idea for the recipe but I would like comments and general thoughts on what I have. None of this is set in stone but I do like what I have so far, I've included a few notes on some of the ingredients to highlight specific questions or thoughts I had.

Name: TBD
Batch size: 5 gallon
All Grain
Estimated OG- 1.121 (this may seem low for the amount of grain but I'm counting on poor mash efficiency with such a large grain bill)
Estimated FG- 1.018
Estimate ABV- 13.8%

14 lbs Pale Malt 2 Row
2 lbs Caramel Malt 120L
2 lbs Oats, flaked (may add rice hulls)
2 lbs Roasted Barley (this may be alot, I like it roasty tasting so I think this is a good amount but I'm not sure, I'm also not against black patent malt and at one point was thinking a pound of each)
2 lbs Rye Malt (I might add rice hulls but should have enough enzymes to mash these as is)
1 lbs Barley, Flaked (I think this is enough)
1 lbs Caramel Malt 60L
1 lbs Special B Malt
2 lbs table sugar at end of boil (or DME or 2ish lbs pale malt, I'm not sure it will all fit in my mash tun, hence the sugar just in case)
2.00 oz Warrior Hops- 60 min boil- 67 IBUs
1.00 oz Warrior Hops- 15 min boil- 17 IBUs
Scottish Ale Yeast- Wyeast 1728- with massive starter
French Oak Infusion Spiral
Yeast nutrient- lots

I'm thinking I'll mash at 149 for 90 minutes (maybe less, but I should still get a lot of good mouth feel from the crystal and rye malts), boil for at least 90 but that may require more to drop the volume to what I need. I don't have a fermentation schedule since I'm not completely wedded to the Scottish ale yeast and temps may change depending on strain, though I've had good results with 1728 in the past with other beers. I would of course oxygenate with O2 and was considering waiting about 12 hours after pitching to re-oxygenate, something I've heard of others doing to help with attenuation in a high gravity beer. I'm also considering splitting the batch for the first part of fermentation to avoid loss to blow off but I'm not sure when is the best time to recombine, part of me thinks just as primary fermentation is winding down to keep fermentation going but I need to look more into this.

I'd rack to a secondary after primary fermentation, I imagine at least two weeks, and add the oak spiral. I'm not sure if I'm going to add any booze to it, though I was thinking about it. I like alot of bourbon stouts but there is already alot going on here, I was toying with the idea of adding Scotch or even Brandy if I do add something just to try something different but I was also thinking about not adding any booze and just adding small amounts to a glass now and then to play with how other liquors work, or don't. I imagine it will me close to 3 months before I keg it and the oak probably will not be in there for that whole time but I will play that by ear. I'm planning on bottling 1 gallon and ageing it for a year before opening it back up.

Anyway that's the plan. I'm open to all kinds of suggestions, especially ways to ensure I get good fermentation. Undoubtedly I've left something important out so sorry about that, when you find out what just ask.

 

[thehaze]

The recipe looks very good. Actually, I would not change anything in it.

I also love the choice of yeast. Mashing low will help with attenuation, so I would do that and wouldn't worry about mouthfeel and body. You will have enough from the Crystal malt and flaked adjuncts.

The yeast has a fermentation range from 55 to 75F, so maybe start at 63F and ramp it up towards the end of fermentation. If you like esters, then I recommend a higher fermentation temperature.

A proper pitch rate and oxygenation would also be required, as long as you hit your numbers.

 

[snowtiger1987]

With that much crystal in there I doubt you will get to a FG of 1.018. Personally, I would skip them altogether. I like the addition of Special B. Finally, I would not add the sugar until day 5 or 6 of primary fermentation.

 

[archthered]

I would not add the sugar until day 5 or 6 of primary fermentation.

I like that idea, I think I may just plan on the sugar and leave out a couple pounds of malt and add sugar during fermentation to help make sure the yeast get to it all!

Thanks to all responders

 

[hottpeper13]

Special B and C120 are very similar in flavor and the one I made with half that amount tasted like carbonated prune juice. I would ditch the 120 and cut the special B in half. This is just personal preference, but I would sub in one pound of pale chocolate for one pound of the roast malt. I also start soaking my oak on brew day(Kirkland scotch) and give it 4 weeks in primary then transfer to oak in secondary and let condition for up to 8 months. I was fortunate enough to get a 25 gal rye barrel and it eill be 8 months in March. Tasted it at 5 months and it was a little hot yet. I also use The Yeast Bays Belgian Dry yeast ,it will go to 16% and gives a great mouth feel. I release mine on black friday and they are 1 year grain to glass, next years will be 1.5 years. Also I use some of my house water(400 ppm CaCO3) to get to a 5.6 pH mashing all of the dark grains. I also use rye and wheat in a lot of other beers and am mashing with a bag in the tun and did a 33% rye wort and ran with thw valve wide open and not even a hint of stuckness, no more rice hulls.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

That recipe looks pretty solid. The Scottish ale yeast is a great choice. Definitely add the sugar after fermentation has already started though. As someone who routinely brews GIANT beers for the winter months I certainly appreciate seeing these kinds of recipes.

 

[JKaranka]

I wouldn't use more than a pound of crystal malt with that OG. My choices if you want a richer flavour would be 3-4lb brown malt instead, or half a pound of special b. The amount of malt alone will keep it fairly rich, but brown can give you some dextrins while avoiding sweetness.

Sugar is your friend!

 

[archthered]

I must confess that I was kind of confused by the lack of consensus on this recipe. I had expected some suggestions on how to tweak it in various ways but not such a wide split between those that think its fine and those that think it is way too much crystal malt. After thinking about this a bit I basically came to the conclusion that this is why we brew! If we all had the same idea of what was the perfect beer then we wouldn't need to make our own, someone would already be selling the perfect beer commercially for less than we can make it!

On that note I think I will keep the recipe as is, knowing full well I've been warned. Otherwise I will wonder how it could and would have been. When I put it in a secondary and add the oak I will taste it and see what I think then. If it really has too much crystal at that time I will have learned something and I will then make another batch of something, with no crystal, to add and cut it with and then let it sit for months. Thanks for your thoughts.

If the first paragraph seems a bit too self congratulatory and did not need stated, part of that is to help others, if someone with little experience goes looking in to this topic with the search function this may seem confusing. I use the search alot and there is nothing more frustrating than following a thread that discusses your issue with differing opinions only to have it just end with no idea of what was actually done or how well what ever it was worked. I try to keep that in mind when I post. If I came to this conclusion and did what I said but didn't comment on it then no one else can use the info. Also I hope to update this after I'm done brewing this etc, though that won't be for quite some time. Thanks again

 

[TallDan]

I'll put my vote on the "too much specialty malt" side.

Let me tell you about my three most recent big stouts:

1 and 2:
I did two mashes with these, put the first runnings into the first boil, the sparge into the second boil each time. Each mash was:
20lb Marris Otter
1.5lb pale chocolate malt
1.25lb roasted barley
1lb carapils
1lb crystal 60
1lb flaked oats

beer 1 had OG 1.137 FG 1.033 13.5% ABV
beer 2 had OG 1.095 FG 1.025 9.1% ABV

3:
This went into a bourbon barrel along with batches brewed by others in my homebrew club. I wanted to stick with the recipe that the others wanted to go with, but scaled to my efficiency:
18.6lb Marris Otter
1.86lb roasted barley
1.5lb munich
1.25lb pale chocolate
1lb crystal 60
.75lb carafa III
.5 flaked oats

OG 1.106 FG 1.039 8.72% ABV

I think you will have attenuation problems with the recipe that you posted, much like the #3 above. I'd reduce your specialty malts and bump up the base malt.

 

[Imperator85]

My experience would make me learn more on the side of 'less specialty malt' (or at least crystal). 4 lbs of a crystal type malt seems pretty high to me. It is easy IMHO to over complicate a recipe. At this high of an OG, you will have plenty of flavor without that much being added.