I would like to experiment with higher pitching rates to achieve a more lager-like ale, and i have a packet of notti and s-05 in the fridge, so i figure i could just pitch both of them into my next batch. Are there any reasons this would be a problem?
mixing s-05 and nottingham?
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TelemarkBrew
Well-Known Member
when you say "lager-like" you mean neutral yeast flavor? if so, either one of those fermented at or slightly below their suggested temperature ranges will be very much in the backgroung, s-05 even more so than the nottingham.
there is nothing wrong with pitching both, but if you're beer is of fairly normal gravity, there is not really a need to.
there is nothing wrong with pitching both, but if you're beer is of fairly normal gravity, there is not really a need to.
05 is not inherently better than Notty. They have slightly different performances and depending on what you're looking for one may be better than the other. For me Notty finishes slightly lower but isn't quite as clean or quick as the 05. With what you're looking for the 05 should work out great, you will probably want to ferment as close to 60 as possible. Kolsch yeast is also supposed to deliver results along the lines of what you're looking for. I've never used it so I can't say for sure. I think Kolsch is only available as a liquid yeast so it will cost you a bit more and I believe it needs to ferment between 55-62 or somewhere in that range.
Teacher
Well-Known Member
Pitching more yeast won't result in any more fermentation. Along with fermenting cool (as mentioned above), you might also want to use pilsner malt or extract if you can, which will give even less body and toastiness/graininess.
Just use the US-05 in the lower 60s. It's better! K-97 is great too.
Thanks for the replies,
I understand the point of a cold fermentation for my objectives; but i think pitching rate will also affect the outcome; part of my strategy for the "lager-ale", again, is to employ a higher pitching rate. The combination of these two strains is coincidental; i just want to use what i have. My thinking that they could be used together makes sense to me in light of the fact that both are supposed to be neutral.
I appreciate the input, but i think the focus of them was a little too much of a comparative between the strains (which isn't my primary concern).
I'll agree with the general verdict of s-05 over notti, and note that i would pitch two packets of s-05 if i had them. So there shouldn't be any problem with combining the two, it sounds like?
I understand the point of a cold fermentation for my objectives; but i think pitching rate will also affect the outcome; part of my strategy for the "lager-ale", again, is to employ a higher pitching rate. The combination of these two strains is coincidental; i just want to use what i have. My thinking that they could be used together makes sense to me in light of the fact that both are supposed to be neutral.
I appreciate the input, but i think the focus of them was a little too much of a comparative between the strains (which isn't my primary concern).
I'll agree with the general verdict of s-05 over notti, and note that i would pitch two packets of s-05 if i had them. So there shouldn't be any problem with combining the two, it sounds like?
If your batch size is 5 gallons, you only need to pitch one packet. You will not be gaining anything by using two packets.
It seems you want someone to tell you that what you've already decided to do is worthy, but I doubt that you will find anyone to agree that your 'experiment' will produce anything different than just using one packet.
If there was something to it, you wouldn't be finding out now, it would have already been done by someone else, but hey, it's your yeast and your beer, knock yourself out.
I'm not sure who is misunderstood here, but let me try to clarify my point:
In principle two different pitching rates will produce a different flavor profile, right? More yeast= less initial cell propagation = different byproduct flavors. Isn't this part of the reason that Lagers make use of higher pitching rates than ale (the other being related to the fermentation temps.).
If we can agree on that:
1. why would two yeast packets be "overpitching"?
2. why wouldn't an extra yeast packets change the character of the beer?
3. why is my "experiment" inappropriate to my stated goals?
In principle two different pitching rates will produce a different flavor profile, right? More yeast= less initial cell propagation = different byproduct flavors. Isn't this part of the reason that Lagers make use of higher pitching rates than ale (the other being related to the fermentation temps.).
If we can agree on that:
1. why would two yeast packets be "overpitching"?
2. why wouldn't an extra yeast packets change the character of the beer?
3. why is my "experiment" inappropriate to my stated goals?
Mr Malty Pitching Rate Calculator
IMO this calculator is set to overpitching.
http://***********/stories/recipes/article/indices/58-yeast/183-beat-yeast-bite
IMO this calculator is set to overpitching.
http://***********/stories/recipes/article/indices/58-yeast/183-beat-yeast-bite
mcmidc
Well-Known Member
Lagers don't use higher pitching rates to achieve a different flavor, it is because they are fermented at so much cooler temperatures that a higher pitch rate is needed for strong fermentation. Here is a quote from Palmer's How to Brew:
Because of the cooler temperatures, the yeast is less active at first. The best way to ensure a strong, healthy lager fermentation is to pitch a much larger yeast starter than you would for an ale. Where you would pitch a one quart starter solution of liquid yeast for an ale, you would use a 2 or 3 quart starter for a lager.
Pitching two packets would be overpitching because it's more yeast than are needed to ferment your batch. There won't be as much need for reproduction which will stop esther production and may change your taste profile in certain yeast strains. Probably not so much with S-05 or Notty. I think that's why everyone is just saying to use one and ferment at low temps because you probably won't get it any more clean by pitching two packs. I think if you were using a yeast strain in which ester formation was important you would see more of a change in taste (ie belgian yeasts).
