MIAB Brewing - Mash in a Bag

[jldc]

This technique has been discussed in several of the batch sparge threads, but I thought that I would describe in detail the way I "mash in a bag." In reality, I am just using a large bag instead of a braid or manifold. I recently did a dubbel with 13+ lbs of grain with no problems and average 79-80% efficiency. My technique is based on Bobby_M's NMODBS technique. I've only been brewing for about a year, so I welcome comments.

Equipment:
AHS Jumbo Coarse Nylon Bag: $6.99 holds 15lbs of grain
10 gallon round cooler with ball valve, but no manifold/braid/false bottom.

- Calculate strike temp and volume. I've used 1.25 to 1.75 qt./lb without any trouble.
- Crush grain into bag.
-Put strike water heated to 5-7 degrees hotter than strike temp into cooler, and close lid.
- About ten min later check temp. Your cooler should be heated and the water should be a degree or two high. Leave the lid off the cooler and wait until the water cools to the strike temp exactly. Add the grain bag and stir like crazy for 2-3 min. The bag should be large enough that it doesn't restrict the grains at all. Close the lid again.
- Ten min later check mash temps. They should be spot on.
- Stir again midway through your mash if you want. I usually do.
- Heat your sparge water to about 185. When mixed with the grain you will end up near 170.
- Drain the mash tun into a 5 gallon bucket or into the brew kettle if you have a separate HLT. Lift the bag just enough to allow the wort to flow out the ball valve. Sometimes I vorlauf, sometimes not. I leave the last cup or so of liquid which usually has visible sediment in the MT.
- Add half of your sparge water. Stir like crazy. Drain in 5-10 min. Repeat with the last of the sparge water.
- You're done. Dump the grains, clean the bag and the cooler while the wort is boiling.

What do you think? Seems simpler than messing with manifolds, etc. Stuck sparges are damn near impossible. I've made BierMuncher's Cream of three crops with lbs of flaked corn/rice with no rice hulls and no problems. The major limitation is that there is an upper limit to the number of lbs of grain that you can comfortably do.

 

[frogfree]

I can see problems trying to do a barleywine with this method....or even 10 gallon batches...

 

[hlumbard]

What do you mean a ball valve but no manifold? Do you have a picture?

 

[Token]

Deathbrewer has an awesome pictoral similar to this. He does his on the stovetop. It's my way to brew now. Love it.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-pics-90132/

 

[weirdboy]

What do you mean a ball valve but no manifold? Do you have a picture?

You line the pot with the mesh bag, which acts as a filter so you don't need a manifold or braid.

 

[ghpeel]

Lotsa posting going on about folks using bags instead of traditional false bottoms. I am going to go waaay out on a limb here and say this:

FILTRATION BAGS FOR MASHING WILL BE THE NEXT "COOL" THING ON HBT.

Just like BIAB, No-Chill, etc, I think bag-mashing will soon become another "radical" idea that people will start using with no detriment to their beer.

As a rant, I think the whole way mashing was cleared before (recirculation, etc), was just because way back in the day, there was no other way to strain out the grain bits from your wort. A false bottom and a long recirculation were needed to clear the wort. But with modern nylon bags acting as filters, these traditional steps are not necessary.

To me, the BIAB phenomenon really proves mash bagging. So what a lot of folks have done is a hybrid approach: using BIAB materials for straining, but 'normal' mash volumes for strike and sparging.

 

[bakins]

I use the same bag that I BIAB with. Large enough for my cooler to fit in, so I drape it out and over the side of cooler. Makes stirring easier.

 

[Edcculus]

You know, I don't see any reason why this wouldn't work. Even with a manifold, it could be beneficial. Kind of like cheap insurance against a stuck sparge. If something goes wrong, just lift out the grain bag and see whats going wrong down there instead of having to dump out the entire mash tun.

 

[bakins]

If something goes wrong, just lift out the grain bag and see whats going wrong down there instead of having to dump out the entire mash tun.

That's what I do. I recirculate (RIMS) and if it gets stuck (ie, flow stops) I bob the bag around a bit and it starts flowing again. I'm about 75% BIAB, 25% MIAB nowadays - depending on my mood. FWIW, I get the same efficiency with both - 75-80% (MIAB with double batch sparge).

 

[remilard]

Lotsa posting going on about folks using bags instead of traditional false bottoms. I am going to go waaay out on a limb here and say this:

FILTRATION BAGS FOR MASHING WILL BE THE NEXT "COOL" THING ON HBT.

Just like BIAB, No-Chill, etc, I think bag-mashing will soon become another "radical" idea that people will start using with no detriment to their beer.

As a rant, I think the whole way mashing was cleared before (recirculation, etc), was just because way back in the day, there was no other way to strain out the grain bits from your wort. A false bottom and a long recirculation were needed to clear the wort. But with modern nylon bags acting as filters, these traditional steps are not necessary.

To me, the BIAB phenomenon really proves mash bagging. So what a lot of folks have done is a hybrid approach: using BIAB materials for straining, but 'normal' mash volumes for strike and sparging.

I think Anheuser Busch beat us to the punch on this one.

 

[BooneDocks]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/photo-album-australian-method-brew-bag-133667/

 

[Saccharomyces]

Hehe, after having another *&@# stuck sparge in my aux. 5 gallon MLT this weekend I have decided I am going to chuck my braid and use a combo of a veggie steamer and large nylon grain bag in that MLT from now on. The veggie steamer is needed to prevent the bag from blocking the pickup.

Revvy has some pics somewhere of his setup which uses exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[limulus]

I'm just getting back into brewing. The brew in a bag method is what I've decided on. I do have two 10g Coleman coolers that I had 15yrs ago for brewing. I plan to use a steamer like this (if it will fit my square cooler):

I may even use a steamer basket like this to hold the bag-o-grain and place it on top of the the steamer rack:

Yeah, it's probably overkill but I already have the 40qt pot and the matching basket. I'm just wondering if anyone has recirculated an Aussie BIAB from bottom to top or is that just useless in this type of system? I believe the Aussie BIAB method uses 100% of the water at once without using a HLT...correct? I still have a brand new pump that I bought from Grainger for a RIMS 15yrs ago. I also have the speed controller so I figure I should use it .

 

[MacBruver]

The first all grain batch I did, I used this method in my electric turkey fryer with the basket in place. It worked just fine- but you do still have to vorlauf a bit if you really want your wort clear. Unless you are using super SUPER fine mesh, there are still small particles that contribute to cloudy wort there.... and if you really used mesh fine enough to contain them, it would probably clog right off the bat.

I have since moved to using the "cheap 10 gal mlt" with braid and won't look back. Why?

- when stirring the mash, if your bag is a little too big or too small- it gets all tangled up and is in general a pain in the butt to deal with.

- with the veggie steamer or fry basket in there, it leaves quite a bit more dead space in the MLT, losing a bit of efficiency
- it's one more thing to clean at the end of a brew day... and getting all the grain particles out of the mesh IS a pain
- I've done 3 batches in my braid MLT, and it works great

I'm not saying it's bad- but it's not the next revolution in brewing, IMHO.

 

[MacBruver]

I may even use a steamer basket like this to hold the bag-o-grain and place it on top of the the steamer rack:

If you really want to "dunk" the grain up and down, this is absolutely necessary. Those bags really aren't designed to hold the weight of 10-15lbs of sopping wet grain... and people doing stovetop brews have had them break. That would make for a crappy brew day.

Yeah, it's probably overkill but I already have the 40qt pot and the matching basket. I'm just wondering if anyone has recirculated an Aussie BIAB from bottom to top or is that just useless in this type of system?

I still think it's necessary, as I alluded to in my previous post.

I believe the Aussie BIAB method uses 100% of the water at once without using a HLT...correct? I still have a brand new pump that I bought from Grainger for a RIMS 15yrs ago. I also have the speed controller so I figure I should use it .

"Aussie BIAB" is really BIAB + no sparge. You can do one or the other, or both at the same time.

 

[jldc]

If you really want to "dunk" the grain up and down, this is absolutely necessary. Those bags really aren't designed to hold the weight of 10-15lbs of sopping wet grain... and people doing stovetop brews have had them break. That would make for a crappy brew day.

I've done 10+ batches "dunking" up and down with just the AHS large bag, and no steamer basket, etc. I've never used 15 lbs of grain, but I have used 13.5 once. No problems. After a bunch of batches the weave is a bit stretched, and I replace the bag.

That said, it WOULD make a crappy brew day if the bag broke.

 

[bakins]

I I'm just wondering if anyone has recirculated an Aussie BIAB from bottom to top or is that just useless in this type of system?

I recirculate. Mostly because I'm all electric and already had the RIMS setup. I can set the temp and walk away, come back in an hour and start the boil.

 

[MacBruver]

I've done 10+ batches "dunking" up and down with just the AHS large bag, and no steamer basket, etc. I've never used 15 lbs of grain, but I have used 13.5 once. No problems. After a bunch of batches the weave is a bit stretched, and I replace the bag.

That said, it WOULD make a crappy brew day if the bag broke.

The large mesh bags are definitely stronger.. I think it's the really fine ones that can cause trouble. I could see the seams starting to strain a bit with 10lbs in mine.

 

[CalmYourself]

I use a large bag made out of curtain material as my mash bag. It's a little too fine, especially when using adjuncts. But it works well. Lautering just takes a little longer than my previous bag (mutton cloth, but not fine enough)

I also use the mash bags to catch all coldbreak material when transferring from no-chill cube to fermenter. Works beautifully for that.

 

[joebagodonuts]

This is awesome.
I haven't brewed in 4 years and I'm in the process of building my brewery to start again.
This makes things so much simpler. I'm excited to try this - but I'm also curious why I never thought of this before. This will make the process so much easier.
I don't think I have to have a separate mash ton if I do this. Can't I just pull out the grains and do the boil in the same pot as long as I get all of the grains? I shouldn't have a tanin problem - by pulling out the bag I've done everything the false bottom would do.

 

[HarkinBanks]

Main reason I use it is for clean-up, it makes it a snap. No more grain rinsing out of my manifold or braid.

 

[Burgs]

Equipment:
AHS Jumbo Coarse Nylon Bag: $6.99 holds 15lbs of grain

Interesting, that must be quite a bit bigger than the paint strainer ones at Lowes then, huh?

I have one of the 5 gal paint strainer bags back from when I thought about trying this method and it barely fit around the rim of my 5 gallon cooler.

Will check this out, thanks!

 

[dummkauf]

Where do you get these giant nylon bags? Getting ready to do my first all grain (cooler with steel braid setup), and cleaning the cooler has been one task I have NOT been looking forward to. This seems like you just solved my problem

edit: Also, what type of nylon is it that you use? My fiance just pointed out that she could probably go to the fabric store and pick up a bunch and just make me a bag too. Just want to make sure there's not some special nylon I need to use.

 

[SumnerH]

Nylon or 100% polyester voile. It's the fabric often used as curtain linings.

 

[HarkinBanks]

I got a two pack of voile curtains from Target for around $7 bucks. They work well for my setup. I just line my mash tun with one of them.

 

[dummkauf]

Willl the nylon or polyester hold up in the boil? Now I'm also debating putting a bag in brew kettle, wrapping the edges around the top of the kettle, and dropping a shotglass in to keep it on the bottom so the hops can still move around in the wort as it boils. My only concern would be the bag melting on the bottom of the pot. I've always just tossed the hops right in the wort, but this would also cut down my cleanup time there too.

Or am I just over complicating this, and just put the hops in a nylon bag and dangle them in the middle of the ketltle?

 

[HarkinBanks]

Use a 5 g paint strainer bag from Lowe's or HD for hops, won't melt. No need for a shotglass that might break. There is enough room in a 5 g bag for the hops to float around nicely.

 

[joebagodonuts]

I saw someone on youtube putting a colander at the bottom of the mash tun to keep the bag from sitting on the bottom of her steel mash tun. I don't know if that's really necessary since I'm going to be using a cooler. I decided to use a cooler because it will be easier to maintain the mash temperature that I need.