Methanol in Apple Jack

[clintonsimmons]

Hey guys, maybe my answer is already out there, but I couldn't find it. Please bear with me.

I'm making apple jack from Motts Apple juice, and a yeast slurry from spiced mead with Wyeast 1388 BOMM and Fleischmann's yeast from JAOM. Just a mess. Its two days in and bubbling away.

I came across the reason why the US Government limits home distillation.... taxing and blinding methanol!

I'd like to end up with an apple jack that doesn't have high methanol, or doesn't concentrate the methanol it has through the freezing process.

Additionally, I think I've learned that methanol in cider is cause in some part by the amount of pectin in the starting must/product. Apple Juice, Motts in my case, is clear, clarified and filtered, and has no pectin in it from what I understand.

Questions:
Can I boil it off safely without exploding my kitchen?
Is there little to no risk of methanol in my must, as the Motts juice I started with has no pectin?
Do I just need to dump it and start over with a new process for limiting methanol?

Thanks everyone!

 

[phug]

Ok, the concentration of methanol won't be a higher percentage than in in jacked cider.

Also because your body processes ethanol preferentially over methanol you will have passed through the methanol while your body works on the ethanol.

In fact, one of the treatments for methanol poisoning is to drink a continuously steady amount of ethanol while you pass the methanol.

This is a documented treatment. The web has articles about puppies saved from antifreeze poisoning by putting them on a vodka drip( true story) and of beer being prescribed as treatment in Africa. If I can find the links I'll post them.

With distillation methanol is an issue because you get methanol and ethanol at different temperatures and some people package the methanol portion nearly by itself.

 

[phug]

http://www.while-science-sleeps.com/pdf/141.pdf the ethanol can be administered by mouth. Drink up.

 

[phug]

Eh... The dog was ethylene glycol. But same principle http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ves-puppy-poisoned-anti-freeze-Australia.html

 

[phug]

TLDR methanol in cider or in jacked cider is not more of a health concern than the ethanol is.

 

[AidanSavage]

Jacking cider will concentrate everything in it, including methanol, as all you're pulling out when jacking is water.

 

[phug]

It will, but it doesn't change the ratio of ethanol to methanol, so my point stands. The more methanol you get in the dose, the more ethanol you get.

 

[noblesquirrel]

No offense, but the responses to the original post are ridiculous. The reasoning behind Methanol in home distillation is related back to the prohibition era. In order to get more out of their bathtub gin, home "distillers" would add in any alcohol they could find, including methylated spirits. That will mess you up. Beer/wine yeast don't make much methanol at all. It's not a concern in the least with making Applejack. The whole TTB thing with home distillation is a fallacy, it's more of an excuse for excise taxes than it is a public safety concern. Even in distilleries, they aren't dropping the heads and tails because of methanol, it's due to fusel oils that you don't want in your dram. Don't sweat it, you'll be fine with your applejack.

 

[MindenMan]

Thank you noblesquirrel, the whole methanol scare thing just kills me.
Yes, there is methanol created during fermentation, but in order to consume enough methanol to cause you permanent damage, you would have died of ethanol poisoning first.

 

[clintonsimmons]

Hey everyone, thanks for the input. I guess theres nothing to be worried about... only thing left to do is drink! Have a great Holiday!

 

[clintonsimmons]

Ok, so about a week in. I racked and froze the juice twice. It tastes tart. What did I do wrong? I think its vinegar bacteria that causes that, am I right? I thought apple jack didn't need back sweetening, but I'm thinking about doing it to cover the tartness. Any ideas what I did wrong or how to fix it?

 

[MindenMan]

So a week in, you froze your hard cider twice to make apple jack? Tart flavor usually means the cider had all it's sugar converted to alcohol, I am kinda confused here as to what result you were looking for. Making apple jack out of a 4-5% ABV cider is going to be difficult at best. There is only 5 ounces of alcohol in a gallon, and it will not come out w/o a significant amount of the water/cider with it. The other thing could be your freezer, what temperature is it set to? The colder the freezer, the easier it is to get the alcohol out first.

 

[clintonsimmons]

Regular kitchen freezer. I wanted sweet, not tart. I have stabilized, but didn't back sweeten yet. I'm asking for a good recipe for back sweetening besides white sugar. Molasses? Brown sugar, maple syrup? lactose!!!???
5% alcohol might be right, but it was a very healthy fermentation, so I was thinking higher. Either way, bottom line is I've got something I want to change the taste of.

 

[MindenMan]

Back sweetening is a personal thing; as long as it stabilized, and you said it was, molasses is a very complimentary flavor, brown sugar is white sugar with molasses added, so it is kind of the same thing. Lactose will add mouth feel a little thicker on the tongue.
I am not trying to avoid your question, you need to do what you like best. Split the batch up, use different sweeteners, and let the cider age a month or two. At that point, you will get a more accurate representation of how the flavors in cider will build and mingle.
The average store bought cider is between 1.040 and 1.050, resulting in a 4-5% ABV cider. Until the cider gets some age on it, it won't really taste a lot like cider.

 

[D-west]

how much sugar did you add to your cider when you started it?