Mediocre First Brew Day on the New E-HERMS Rig -- Could use some tips

[ryanj]

After brewing for several years on a tiered propane / batch sparge setup getting decent brewhouse efficiencies, I finally moved to a custom built electric HERMS brewery. Yesterday was my first brew day on this setup and I had a few challenges. I decided to brew a Citra Pale Ale (http://brewgr.com/recipe/52929/pale-ale-dry-hopped-with-citra-recipe?public=true)

1. The biggest challenge that I ran into was getting my mash to recirculate consistently. After mashing in and stirring for several minutes, I opened the valves and began to recirculate through my HERMS coil and back into the mash tun. The pressure started out fine but after 5-10 minutes it would slow to a trickle. I usually do a pretty thin mash thickness (1.75qt/lb), but I'm guessing with my grain bill (specifically the white wheat) just gummed up? I'm using two "china chugger" pumps (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hig...417.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2ad24c4dZMhWHY) and I have to assume they aren't the problem here (especially since the pressure starts strong initially).
2. I'm mashing in a cooler and added a bulkhead on the lid. On the inside I'm using a simple elbow, barb, and 2-3' silicone hose. I battled that darn hose the whole mash and sparge process. I could NOT get it to float above the grain bed easily. I think I'm going to solve that by buying one of these: https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/mashrecirculation.htm
3. Mash out / Fly sparging -- first time attempting both. All in all, I think it went ok. I turned my HLT up to 170 and it got there within about 10-15 mins. The MT didn't budge at all...probably due to lack of water flow. I decided to proceed with fly sparging once HLT got to 170. Wound up with about a 45 min sparge, but as I got towards the end I noticed that the stupid silicone hose adding hot water to the top, really only rinsed about half of the grainbed (since the bed was built up on the side it wasn't circulating water to).

I wound up getting a mediocre 1.054 OG which is probably due to the inconsistent mash process. I'm sure the beer will still turn out fine, but I have some work to do to get this new system figured out.

Any suggestions on how to deal with a slow down in recirculation during mash? Was it my grain bill? Should I have added some rice hulls? Before recirculating, should I have done a manual vorlauf or just let the pump handle that?

For my fly sparging... should I consider a sparge ring? https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/mashspargering.htm ?

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[bmaupin]

At the start of recirculation, I open the valve slightly to set the grain bed and then only to about 1/2 way open after a couple minutes - I get plenty of flow to make the top of the mash swirl. I also use a silicone hose inside the mlt and getting the outlet to stay at the top is unreliable, but works. The hose you linked would be a good idea. I also use a round cooler, but installed a bulkhead on the side near the top.

 

[doug293cz]

Adding rice hulls when you use wheat, rye, or flaked grains in your grist can improve flow thru the bed when recirculating and sparging.

Sounds like you had severe channeling during your fly sparge, which will greatly reduce your lauter efficiency. A sparge ring might help, but you also need good flow patterns at the bottom of the grain bed. Do you have a false bottom in your cooler MLT? You might want to try batch sparging on this system as well. If you can't get better efficiency fly sparging than batch sparging, then you are wasting your time doing a fly sparge.

Brew on

 

[ryanj]

Interesting. I’m reading more and more that a lot of people don’t run their mash recirculation full bore (like I thought I was supposed to).

Do you stir your mash ocassionally or no? I’ve heard both yes and no. I didn’t have a choice with this last bath and had to stir multiple times and reset the grainbed.

 

[ryanj]

Adding rice hulls when you use wheat, rye, or flaked grains in your grist can improve flow thru the bed when recirculating and sparging.

Sounds like you had severe channeling during your fly sparge, which will greatly reduce your lauter efficiency. A sparge ring might help, but you also need good flow patterns at the bottom of the grain bed. Do you have a false bottom in your cooler MLT? You might want to try batch sparging on this system as well. If you can't get better efficiency fly sparging than batch sparging, then you are wasting your time doing a fly sparge.

Brew on

Yeah, I have a standard dome false bottom with a high flow “street elbow” and full 1/2” tubing and fittings all the way.

I think my main problem fly sparging was that I had trouble keeping the silicone hose floating above the grain bed. I also turned the water down very low to try and prolong the sparge process but the low flow didn’t make the mash water “swirl”.

 

[doug293cz]

You don't need to have the sparge water swirling above the grain bed when sparging. You just need to maintain 1" - 2" of liquid above the grain bed.

Brew on

 

[ryanj]

You don't need to have the sparge water swirling above the grain bed when sparging. You just need to maintain 1" - 2" of liquid above the grain bed.

Brew on

Well, I did have plenty of water above the grain bed yet I still had channeling issues. I guess I didn't realize how important rice hulls would be for something with wheat/oats. I'll have to remember that for next time.

 

[bmaupin]

Interesting. I’m reading more and more that a lot of people don’t run their mash recirculation full bore (like I thought I was supposed to).

Do you stir your mash ocassionally or no? I’ve heard both yes and no. I didn’t have a choice with this last bath and had to stir multiple times and reset the grainbed.

I stir at 30 and 5 minutes left in 60 minute mash. I also stir after every batch sparge refill - twice. I get 90% efficiency with #10ish batches.

I also set my cereal killer at 0.038" which when set much narrower will lead to difficulty recirculating. I recommend always having rice hulls handy

 

[sillbeer]

I run full bore on my Riptide pumps and haven't had a issue. I use a silicone hose and it usually does not float on top of the water but it stays on top of the grain bed.

 

[ryanj]

I run full bore on my Riptide pumps and haven't had a issue. I use a silicone hose and it usually does not float on top of the water but it stays on top of the grain bed.

I think my main problem is that I'm mashing in a cooler and have the bulkhead on the lid. I have a 45 degree bend but even still, if I don't set the hose just right, it pinches or sinks. Moral of the story, if I keep the cooler, I need to move to locline sparge arm.

 

[sillbeer]

I think you would need another 45 degree fitting on the bottom side of the lid to prevent the kinking. Am I thinking right?

 

[ryanj]

I think you would need another 45 degree fitting on the bottom side of the lid to prevent the kinking. Am I thinking right?

Nope, the problem would be the same. The one 45 bend from the lid just makes the hose point toward the wall of the cooler. The problem is that the diameter of the cooler is actually pretty small so it makes bending the hose to "coil around" the wall of the cooler really challenging without kinking it. Then there's the challenge of getting the hose to sit just above or at the water line while trying to close the lid and not disturb it.

The lid bulkhead was an interesting idea conceptually, but I wish I never did it. I can see moving the a keggle mash tun really soon.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I condition my grains and mill at 0.050 . I also use rice hulls with any wheat/sticky mashes. i can run my chuggers at 100% if doing those steps.prior to upgrading to kettles and full sized false bottom i briefly used keggles with the domed false bottom you have and could not run 100% . if your getting your grain milled at the lhbs i bet its milled to tight

 

[ryanj]

I condition my grains and mill at 0.050 . I also use rice hulls with any wheat/sticky mashes. i can run my chuggers at 100% if doing those steps.prior to upgrading to kettles and full sized false bottom i briefly used keggles with the domed false bottom you have and could not run 100% . if your getting your grain milled at the lhbs i bet its milled to tight

Hmmm, that makes sense. I have my mill set to .035 which is pretty aggressive. I had pretty good luck batch sparging with this mill setting, but this is my first time constantly recirculating, so that combined with the white wheat and oats and no rice hulls... I think my root of my problems are becoming more obvious.

 

[ryanj]

Ok, here are my take aways so far that I believe will solve most of my issues:

1. Now that I'm recirculating my mash constantly, I need to be more mindful of my ingredients. Anything with wheat/oats, I should:
   1. run the wort pump slower
   2. add a pound of rice hulls
2. It's not totally uncommon to stir your mash a few times while recirculating... especially with a sticky grain bill.
3. I realize the silicone hose works well for wall mounted bulkheads, but my cooler lid, I was fighting it to stay in place. A Loc-Line arm is a simple fix for that (and I should probably just go ahead and buy one https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/mashrecirculation.htm

Now to finish up this batch so I can do it all over again and keep practicing!

 

[Smellyglove]

Ok, here are my take aways so far that I believe will solve most of my issues:

1. Now that I'm recirculating my mash constantly, I need to be more mindful of my ingredients. Anything with wheat/oats, I should:
   1. run the wort pump slower
   2. add a pound of rice hulls
2. It's not totally uncommon to stir your mash a few times while recirculating... especially with a sticky grain bill.
3. I realize the silicone hose works well for wall mounted bulkheads, but my cooler lid, I was fighting it to stay in place. A Loc-Line arm is a simple fix for that (and I should probably just go ahead and buy one https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/mashrecirculation.htm

Now to finish up this batch so I can do it all over again and keep practicing!

I've been recirculating through a herms for several years and my tips to what you said above are:

the flow-rate must be lower than what your grist and false bottom can handle, if that makes sense, or else you can slowly get stuck over time. Not only beers with wheat/oats etc. You need to find a "sweet" spot on the valve which regulates the flow. Poke your mash paddle through the maltbed once in a while to get a feel of if it's compacting (to much) or not, and dial the valve according to this. After some attempts you'll notice how the grainbed should feel when poking through it.

After you mash in, let the grain bed sit and naturally settle 10-15 minutes before starting the pump.

Flow of the mash will be better after gelatinization and conversion has started to take place. If you're making a wheat beer for instance you'd want to go slow since it's all just flour which doesn't convert if you start low.

I've experienced that if you have a good flow (good for the girst/system), there is no need to stir the mash. In fact, whenever you stir the mash (close to the FB) I'd say that you'd want to shut of the pump for 10-15 minutes to let the grains settle naturally again.

If you can, I'd move the bulkhead to the wall, this way you can open the lid without doing anything to the return flow.

 

[ryanj]

I've been recirculating through a herms for several years and my tips to what you said above are:

the flow-rate must be lower than what your grist and false bottom can handle, if that makes sense, or else you can slowly get stuck over time. Not only beers with wheat/oats etc. You need to find a "sweet" spot on the valve which regulates the flow. Poke your mash paddle through the maltbed once in a while to get a feel of if it's compacting (to much) or not, and dial the valve according to this. After some attempts you'll notice how the grainbed should feel when poking through it.

After you mash in, let the grain bed sit and naturally settle 10-15 minutes before starting the pump.

Flow of the mash will be better after gelatinization and conversion has started to take place. If you're making a wheat beer for instance you'd want to go slow since it's all just flour which doesn't convert if you start low.

I've experienced that if you have a good flow (good for the girst/system), there is no need to stir the mash. In fact, whenever you stir the mash (close to the FB) I'd say that you'd want to shut of the pump for 10-15 minutes to let the grains settle naturally again.

If you can, I'd move the bulkhead to the wall, this way you can open the lid without doing anything to the return flow.

I guess it goes to show the importance of experience when it comes to brewing. I did tons of research while I built my new system and until now had no idea that the flow of my pump needed to match my FB's ability to drain. I just assumed you can run it full bore (which I believe some people do... but I'm learning that maybe their MT/FB design is more efficient than mine. I was getting so frustrated on brew day, but now...it makes sense.

When I set up my fly sparge, I only barely opened the kettle valve to allow wort to trickle in and had no problem collecting my proeboil volume without issue. More evidence that I need to regulate my pump's flowrate.

Thanks for the tips!

 

[mongoose33]

I run full bore on my Riptide pumps and haven't had a issue. I use a silicone hose and it usually does not float on top of the water but it stays on top of the grain bed.

I'm heading toward one of these HERMS systems, reading as much as I can before I start to pull the trigger.

I have a Riptide which I plan to use for this. Full-bore is 7-gallons per minute, so when you say you're running it full-bore, does that mean the valve is wide open and you're circulating 7 gallons per minute?

That seems very fast to me, but I'm a newbie at this HERMS stuff so perhaps I don't understand.

EDITED TO ADD: My understanding, such as it is, was more consistent with what @Smellyglove says above, i.e., the flow rate needs to be tuned to a level which doesn't overly compact the grain bed.

I'd think a high flow rate would suck that grain bed down, making channeling much more likely, and inhibiting flow through parts of the grain bed which would reduce efficiency.

 

[Smellyglove]

I guess it goes to show the importance of experience when it comes to brewing. I did tons of research while I built my new system and until now had no idea that the flow of my pump needed to match my FB's ability to drain. I just assumed you can run it full bore (which I believe some people do... but I'm learning that maybe their MT/FB design is more efficient than mine. I was getting so frustrated on brew day, but now...it makes sense.

When I set up my fly sparge, I only barely opened the kettle valve to allow wort to trickle in and had no problem collecting my proeboil volume without issue. More evidence that I need to regulate my pump's flowrate.

Thanks for the tips!

First hand experience is gold. If you'd just do even more research than what you did, before trying yourself, you'd maybe just get info about do's and don't, but not where the limitation for your system is

I remember my first brew on the first herms setup I had. Full bore, plastic mash tun and a mashout...

FB had machinescrews which acted as legs. I did a mashout, the plastic got soft, and when I started to clean out after the brew I noticed the "legs" for the FB were as good as it gets melted down into and through the mash tun bottom, the plastic was of course cold since I hosed it down after dumping the grains so at that point the legs got sort of welded into the plastic. Cloudy as hell wort, low OG and a PITA to get that FB out of the plastic mash tun again.

 

[Smellyglove]

I'm heading toward one of these HERMS systems, reading as much as I can before I start to pull the trigger.

I have a Riptide which I plan to use for this. Full-bore is 7-gallons per minute, so when you say you're running it full-bore, does that mean the valve is wide open and you're circulating 7 gallons per minute?

That seems very fast to me, but I'm a newbie at this HERMS stuff so perhaps I don't understand.

EDITED TO ADD: My understanding, such as it is, was more consistent with what @Smellyglove says above, i.e., the flow rate needs to be tuned to a level which doesn't overly compact the grain bed.

I'd think a high flow rate would suck that grain bed down, making channeling much more likely, and inhibiting flow through parts of the grain bed which would reduce efficiency.

You must take accout the restistance in the whole loop as well. Full bore in one setup can give same flow as half open in another setup which has less resistance in the loop. It's the sum of hoses and coils and their length and inside diameter. Full bore will not be the number which is given by the manufacturer of the pump since we are pumping through a resistance

You have to figure it out based on trial and error since also milling, type of FB, width/height ratio of grain bed and grain to liquid ratio also plays a role.

 

[itsnotrequired]

Ok, here are my take aways so far that I believe will solve most of my issues:

1. Now that I'm recirculating my mash constantly, I need to be more mindful of my ingredients. Anything with wheat/oats, I should:
   1. run the wort pump slower
   2. add a pound of rice hulls
2. It's not totally uncommon to stir your mash a few times while recirculating... especially with a sticky grain bill.
3. I realize the silicone hose works well for wall mounted bulkheads, but my cooler lid, I was fighting it to stay in place. A Loc-Line arm is a simple fix for that (and I should probably just go ahead and buy one https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/mashrecirculation.htm

Now to finish up this batch so I can do it all over again and keep practicing!

i would look at the crush before messing with rice hulls. i've done batches up to 50% wheat with no hulls but my crush is set at .045 or something in that area. you typically need a bigger crush with continually recirculating systems.

it can't hurt to stir the mash periodically but be aware that you are busting up the natural filter of the grain bed. it will take time for the bed to get re-established and filter the wort. one word of caution is be sure to turn your flow down if you are going to do an interim stir and allow the grain bed to set back up before going full throttle on the pumps. if not, you run the risk of the loose mash setting up channels as the grain bed is re-established. smae deal when you first mash in, you want a slow flow while the bed sets up and then let 'er rip.

i run my mash recirc full throttle without issue. every once in a while early on with a big/thick mash, the liquid level in the sight glass pulls down very low and i start getting air in the mlt vessel outlet line. i dial the pump back, stir the mash, let the bed settle with low pump flow and then crank the pumps back up, seems to solve the problem. you really want maz flow as it results in teh best heat transfer through the herms coil.

 

[stickyfinger]

You've heard all you need most likely, but i'll chime in. i started using a kal-clone e-herms about 3 yrs ago. i had a lot of issues as well for a long time. you might be getting some clogging of your dome. i never liked the dome in the cooler method. it always seemed to leak husk. it might be ok in a herms if you slow the pump. I mill my malt at either .030 or 0.035", i can't remember which, but i always condition it by spraying it with 2-3% water while weighing it out. you can get a MUCH bette crush and better flow with conditioning. if you don't want to condition it, then you need to crush less fine or add rice hulls. rice hulls work very well but do take some space. i also use rice hulls if i am fly sparging a low gravity, 5G beer in my 20G MLT. I get a lot better efficiency using rice hulls when there is not much grain in that large of a MLT. I use the chugger pumps as well, and I never run them full open for recirc. it's just too fast. i tried crushing coarser, but I wasn't able to get as good of mash conversion efficiency doing that, so i started conditioning (takes some extra time for sure)

 

[Smellyglove]

i would look at the crush before messing with rice hulls. i've done batches up to 50% wheat with no hulls but my crush is set at .045 or something in that area. you typically need a bigger crush with continually recirculating systems.

it can't hurt to stir the mash periodically but be aware that you are busting up the natural filter of the grain bed. it will take time for the bed to get re-established and filter the wort. one word of caution is be sure to turn your flow down if you are going to do an interim stir and allow the grain bed to set back up before going full throttle on the pumps. if not, you run the risk of the loose mash setting up channels as the grain bed is re-established. smae deal when you first mash in, you want a slow flow while the bed sets up and then let 'er rip.

i run my mash recirc full throttle without issue. every once in a while early on with a big/thick mash, the liquid level in the sight glass pulls down very low and i start getting air in the mlt vessel outlet line. i dial the pump back, stir the mash, let the bed settle with low pump flow and then crank the pumps back up, seems to solve the problem. you really want maz flow as it results in teh best heat transfer through the herms coil.

This is a bit nitpicking. But I'd like to add to the statement I quoted, which is in bold. That you don't need a "bigger" crush, you'd need a slower crush, since the speed of the crush is equally important as the gap of the rollers. Slower crush keeps the husks more intact. Conditioning the grains with water also helps.

 

[ryanj]

You've heard all you need most likely, but i'll chime in. i started using a kal-clone e-herms about 3 yrs ago. i had a lot of issues as well for a long time. you might be getting some clogging of your dome. i never liked the dome in the cooler method. it always seemed to leak husk. it might be ok in a herms if you slow the pump. I mill my malt at either .030 or 0.035", i can't remember which, but i always condition it by spraying it with 2-3% water while weighing it out. you can get a MUCH bette crush and better flow with conditioning. if you don't want to condition it, then you need to crush less fine or add rice hulls. rice hulls work very well but do take some space. i also use rice hulls if i am fly sparging a low gravity, 5G beer in my 20G MLT. I get a lot better efficiency using rice hulls when there is not much grain in that large of a MLT. I use the chugger pumps as well, and I never run them full open for recirc. it's just too fast. i tried crushing coarser, but I wasn't able to get as good of mash conversion efficiency doing that, so i started conditioning (takes some extra time for sure)

I always condition and crush my grain to about .035. I don't think I let the water sit long enough to absorb into the husks this past time. They were fluffy, but not like previous batches. Either way, this concept of continuous recirculation is brand new to me, so I had no idea I had throttle back the pump. I just assumed you mash in, crack the valves and fire the pumps. Boy was I wrong.

My next batch is a saison with mostly Pilsner, 1lb of red wheat, and 0.5lb of light munich. I'll probably grab a few lb of rice hulls to have on hand if I really need them, but I'm hoping my problem was just that I needed to slow my pump down considerably. At least next time I'll be prepared.

 

[stickyfinger]

I always condition and crush my grain to about .035. I don't think I let the water sit long enough to absorb into the husks this past time. They were fluffy, but not like previous batches. Either way, this concept of continuous recirculation is brand new to me, so I had no idea I had throttle back the pump. I just assumed you mash in, crack the valves and fire the pumps. Boy was I wrong.

My next batch is a saison with mostly Pilsner, 1lb of red wheat, and 0.5lb of light munich. I'll probably grab a few lb of rice hulls to have on hand if I really need them, but I'm hoping my problem was just that I needed to slow my pump down considerably. At least next time I'll be prepared.

you should just try the rice hulls sometime to see how they work. they really are like magic! but, you can certainly get a good flow if you back off on the pumping speed. not sure on the time to wait when conditioning. i pretty much start milling right after weighing my grains, but maybe they would mill a little better with a short rest.

 

[ryanj]

you should just try the rice hulls sometime to see how they work. they really are like magic! but, you can certainly get a good flow if you back off on the pumping speed. not sure on the time to wait when conditioning. i pretty much start milling right after weighing my grains, but maybe they would mill a little better with a short rest.

I've used rice hulls in the past when mashing with pumpkin (don't judge...I'll literally never do that again...ever).

No really...EVER.

But yeah, that was on my old tiered / batch sparge setup.

As far as conditioning goes, I was told a 10-15 minute rest is a good idea to let the water you spray on the grain soak in and soften the husks. I usually barely make it 10 mins because i'm always in a rush to get on with the brew day. Like I said. I'll pick up a few lbs of rice hulls to have on hand just in case, but I'll bet that if I just throttle things down, that'll probably be the the answer I'm looking for.

 

[Genuine]

I'm currently mashing in a cooler and will be using that initially for my 2 vessel kettle RIMS system. A question for you - Are you putting the lid on tight and screwing it on or are you just resting it?

I currently just recirculate through a Mini-E Herms and would get 73% efficiency with batch sparging. However, I did notice I had one hell of a time getting it to recirculate when I had the lid on a couple turns. So now I just place the lid on top.

Now, with the new set up, I'll be doing full volume with no sparge and I'll be putting a temp probe in a T as the mash returns to the top of the tun.

Check out the tightness of the lid - I have a feeling that may be the culprit.

 

[ryanj]

I'm currently mashing in a cooler and will be using that initially for my 2 vessel kettle RIMS system. A question for you - Are you putting the lid on tight and screwing it on or are you just resting it?

I currently just recirculate through a Mini-E Herms and would get 73% efficiency with batch sparging. However, I did notice I had one hell of a time getting it to recirculate when I had the lid on a couple turns. So now I just place the lid on top.

Now, with the new set up, I'll be doing full volume with no sparge and I'll be putting a temp probe in a T as the mash returns to the top of the tun.

Check out the tightness of the lid - I have a feeling that may be the culprit.

I have a "press to seal" lid. I tried with it fully on, I tried with it just resting on the cooler, and I tried with it sitting on top of another kettle and emptying into the MT while fully uncovered. The pressure problems persisted, but I'm learning that it was because I was running my pump too hard and compacting the mash too quickly.

 

[Smellyglove]

I'm currently mashing in a cooler and will be using that initially for my 2 vessel kettle RIMS system. A question for you - Are you putting the lid on tight and screwing it on or are you just resting it?

I currently just recirculate through a Mini-E Herms and would get 73% efficiency with batch sparging. However, I did notice I had one hell of a time getting it to recirculate when I had the lid on a couple turns. So now I just place the lid on top.

Now, with the new set up, I'll be doing full volume with no sparge and I'll be putting a temp probe in a T as the mash returns to the top of the tun.

Check out the tightness of the lid - I have a feeling that may be the culprit.

You're speaking of a vacuum created? And, you should put your temp-sensor on the output of the HERMS, and have one in the MT for monitoring purposes, so you can dial in an offset between those two probes without overshooting the HERMS to much.

 

[ancientmariner52]

I'll just throw my two cents worth in here. Concerning controlling pump flow: I find controlling pump speed to be much easier than trying to adjust a valve. A digital readout makes it simple to make fine adjustments or to repeat a setting another day. The typical ball valves we use are just not well suited to anything other than full open or shut.

 

[Smellyglove]

I'll just throw my two cents worth in here. Concerning controlling pump flow: I find controlling pump speed to be much easier than trying to adjust a valve. A digital readout makes it simple to make fine adjustments or to repeat a setting another day. The typical ball valves we use are just not well suited to anything other than full open or shut.

You can get the type of blichmann valves which they have on the G2-kettles online. They are easier, especially since you can mark them way more easy than a ball valve with a handle. But the line needs to be full. If you throttle back to much on them they will stop if the hose is above the valve at some point.

 

[itsnotrequired]

This is a bit nitpicking. But I'd like to add to the statement I quoted, which is in bold. That you don't need a "bigger" crush, you'd need a slower crush, since the speed of the crush is equally important as the gap of the rollers. Slower crush keeps the husks more intact. Conditioning the grains with water also helps.

no, you're description is more apt.

regarding grain conditioning, i haven't done it before so maybe i 'don't know what i'm missing'?

 

[ancientmariner52]

I condition my grain about 20 minutes before milling. I notice two benefits. The hulls seem to become sort of leathery, and are not shredded as much as when milled dry. A secondary benefit is the huge reduction in dust generated while milling. I use a Victoria corn mill, so this might be different with a roller mill, I don't know. As far as conversion in the mash, I haven't noticed any difference.

 

[Smellyglove]

no, you're description is more apt.

regarding grain conditioning, i haven't done it before so maybe i 'don't know what i'm missing'?

It sort of makes the grains (husks) more squishy, and not as brittle as when dry. Meaning they will go though the mill more intact while the interior (starch) of the grain will be crushed as before. It also starts some of the enzymes in the grain. I've never actually felt the need for this after understanding the relationship between gap between rollers and speed of milling. But it's common in commercial breweries.

 

[itsnotrequired]

seems like dust abatement may be the biggest advantage? i personally don't have any issues with getting a good grain bed or filtering and not conditioning. can't say astringency is an issue either. not saying it isn't worth doing but for me, i'm not seeing the benefit.

 

[ryanj]

seems like dust abatement may be the biggest advantage? i personally don't have any issues with getting a good grain bed or filtering and not conditioning. can't say astringency is an issue either. not saying it isn't worth doing but for me, i'm not seeing the benefit.

From what I understand, the biggest advantage is the ability to have a finer crush without obliterating the husk.

 

[Blazinlow86]

With a .035 gap and wheat in the grist your pretty much guaranteed a stuck mash/sparge. Try your next one at .050 and mill slowly. If your using wheat additionally use rice hulls. You will probably still not be able to run full speed but as long as your temp remains stable that doesn't really matter. You get best heat transfer at full speed so eventually if possible that would be the end goal. As I posted earlier I do all the above and run full speed right from the start everytime but only after going to a jaybird full size false bottom

 

[Blazinlow86]

Oh and fwiw I never stir my mash

 

[SEndorf]

Agree with Blazinlow.
I run full bore and never stir the mash. Crush at 05.
Not sure if this pertains to the OP, but one of the often missed items in troubleshooting this problem is your false bottom.
When I first built my system I had a POS bottom that stuck the mash and actually went from convex to concave from the pressure.
Getting a quality false bottom that covered the entire floor surface of my mash tun solved the problem.

 

[stickyfinger]

With a .035 gap and wheat in the grist your pretty much guaranteed a stuck mash/sparge. Try your next one at .050 and mill slowly. If your using wheat additionally use rice hulls. You will probably still not be able to run full speed but as long as your temp remains stable that doesn't really matter. You get best heat transfer at full speed so eventually if possible that would be the end goal. As I posted earlier I do all the above and run full speed right from the start everytime but only after going to a jaybird full size false bottom

nah, it won't stick. i do it all of the time. i think you probably either have to condition the malt or add rice hulls though, or it will stick.