Mash&Boil vs Robo Brew

[mhochman]

I'm researching both, so I thought I'd share the comparison chart I created. Happy to add to the chart, so if there are other features/differences you think should be noted, feel free to add a comment and I'll add to the original post. All info is taken from the product pages (and Q&A tabs) at Williams Brewing.

…………..…………................Mash&Boil……….....….Robo Brew (w/ pump)
Price……………………...........$299……………….....….$479
Voltage………………..........…110…………………........110
Total Wattage…............…1600……………….....…..1500
# of heating elements…...2……………………..........2
Single/Double wall……......Double………………......Single
Grain capacity………….......16 lbs……………….....…18 lbs.
Liquid capacity…….....…….7.5 gal….……….....……6.5 gal.
Hysterisis......................5 deg.....................5 deg.
Built-in pump……….....…...No………………........…..Yes
Includes chiller…….....…….No………………........…..Yes
Delayed Start………….....…24 hrs…………….........23 hrs.
Internal Markings……...….begins at 4 gal………..begins at 3 gal.

 

[mhochman]

The liquid capacity for the robo brew is 9 gallons, but it's noted on the info page that they recommend not exceeding 6.5 gallons, so that's what I used. I'm not sure if the M&B capacity is the maximum or full capacity.

 

[bford]

Single wall.. would probably really benefit from some type of insulation or jacket when you brew with it.

 

[RichBenn]

If you watch the keg king videos, "Mash and Brew" would appear to be version 1 of the design. Robobrew is version 3. Waterproof controls, better software, pump, and chiller would appear to be the main improvements.

 

[Blackmuse]

I wonder if you can still find V2 of the robobrew... I don't really want the pump and chiller but waterproof controls and larger size (to avoid boil over) would be nice. For say 350-400....

 

[Nokie]

I wonder if you can still find V2 of the robobrew... I don't really want the pump and chiller but waterproof controls and larger size (to avoid boil over) would be nice. For say 350-400....

It appears More Beer is now advertising both versions for pre-orders shipping in July.
https://www.morebeer.com/products/robobrew-grain-brewing-system-35l925g.html

 

[mhochman]

It appears More Beer is now advertising both versions for pre-orders shipping in July.
https://www.morebeer.com/products/robobrew-grain-brewing-system-35l925g.html

$20 less than Williams and with free shipping.

 

[Blackmuse]

It appears More Beer is now advertising both versions for pre-orders shipping in July.
https://www.morebeer.com/products/robobrew-grain-brewing-system-35l925g.html

Thanks a ton! My mind is made up. Only 50 bucks more than Mash and Boil and free shipping! I only wish it were double walled - however, my current kettle is single walled and when wrapped in a sleeping bag never needs hot water added so I think I'll be okay!

 

[TANSTAAFB]

In the description of the non pump version on the Morebeer site it says you need additional tubing for the included chiller...I imagine that's a typo (exact same section on the pump version page) but I emailed them to clarify. Even if it doesn't come with a chiller I don't see how the pump version is worth $120 more. If you want a pump you can add a 12V for $25. And most of us have chiller options. Personally, I want this for brewing during winter.

 

[mhochman]

Williams Brewing just priced matched MoreBeer. The RoboBrew with pump is now $479, and they already have it in stock.

 

[mhochman]

I just ordered the RoboBrew with pump from Williams. They must be price matching, as it's down to $475. I will report back when I have a chance to experiment.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

In the description of the non pump version on the Morebeer site it says you need additional tubing for the included chiller...I imagine that's a typo (exact same section on the pump version page) but I emailed them to clarify. Even if it doesn't come with a chiller I don't see how the pump version is worth $120 more. If you want a pump you can add a 12V for $25. And most of us have chiller options. Personally, I want this for brewing during winter.

So I heard back from Williams and they confirmed that BOTH versions come with the stainless chiller coil!

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Duplicate...

 

[mhochman]

I brewed my first batch on the Robobrew on Thursday. The session took longer than I expected (almost 5 hours), but I assume it will speed up as I get more familiar with the equipment. The process went very smoothly and I hit my numbers absolutely perfectly, both pre and post boil. The false bottom that goes in place for the boil did an excellent job keeping most of the trub from getting into the fermenter, and clean up was as easy as a spray nozzle and a little 1-step.

There were a few little things that will either be easy to adjust or remain minor annoyances, but for now I am very happy with the purchase. I'll write a more detailed review after my second batch (hopefully next week), but in the meantime, if anyone has any questions, I'm happy to help.

 

[mcgimpkins]

I had been kicking around buying a Robobrew to do 2.5-5 gallon batches, is doing 2.5 g doable? In addition what is the efficiency you are getting with it?

 

[Cain]

How long does it take to heat the water to mash temps?

How long to reach boiling temps?

Thanks!!!

 

[mhochman]

I had been kicking around buying a Robobrew to do 2.5-5 gallon batches, is doing 2.5 g doable? In addition what is the efficiency you are getting with it?

Efficiency: have to check, but I think it was low 70s. Again, first batch, so I'd expect it to improve. I don't see why 2.5 gallon batches wouldn't work. When I have a chance I'll let you know what the lowest gallon market is in the vessel.

 

[mhochman]

How long does it take to heat the water to mash temps?

How long to reach boiling temps?

Thanks!!!

I meant to write down the times for each step, but did not. I think getting to mash temp was about 35 minutes. Got much faster when I realized I should put both elements on. Boil took about 30 minutes to get to. Probably could have been faster if I had raised the temp during the sparse, rather than wait for the sparge to be totally done. I'm not sure if that's good practice or not, though.

 

[processhead]

I am not familiar with either system, but the heating element wattage would be a concern to me.
What is the largest volume that you can bring to a rolling boil with that size of an element?

 

[mhochman]

I am not familiar with either system, but the heating element wattage would be a concern to me.
What is the largest volume that you can bring to a rolling boil with that size of an element?

I can't answer that directly, but I think volume limit is factored more by the vessel size than the element. But regarding your question directly, when I had both elements going, the boil got pretty intense at 6 gallons. I kept the boil running with only the 1000 element and it ran perfectly to my eye, though others may demand a more rolling boil. I took a video of my boil, I'll look to post it in this thread.

 

[mhochman]

Here is a link to the boil I had rolling on my first batch on the RoboBrew. The description and video itself shows most of the details. This was a slightly more than 6 gallon boil. I got exactly 5 gallons (with no noticeable trub) into the fermenter.

https://youtu.be/76rx7rkoq_8

 

[TexasWine]

I am not familiar with either system, but the heating element wattage would be a concern to me.
What is the largest volume that you can bring to a rolling boil with that size of an element?

I don't own either system, but I can tell you that I have boiled 13 gallons with 2x1500 watt elements. I also typically have 7-7.5 gallon boils with one 1500 watt element connected directly to an outlet and a second 1500 watt element at 20%. Shooting for ~7-10% boil off, it works out perfectly.

 

[mxstar21]

I am close to pulling the trigger on this, I was close to buying the Grain Father, but this thing is so much cheaper and does the same thing. Sounds like it works pretty well.

 

[mhochman]

I am close to pulling the trigger on this, I was close to buying the Grain Father, but this thing is so much cheaper and does the same thing. Sounds like it works pretty well.

I've only had the time to do one batch on my RoboBrew, but I'm very happy with how that batch went. I have not had the beer yet, but everything looks good. From what I can tell, from a function point of view, the only thing you're missing from the grain father is the connectivity of the controller.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Here is a link to the boil I had rolling on my first batch on the RoboBrew. The description and video itself shows most of the details. This was a slightly more than 6 gallon boil. I got exactly 5 gallons (with no noticeable trub) into the fermenter.

https://youtu.be/76rx7rkoq_8

That doesn't even look like it's boiling! Definitely not a "rolling boil"

 

[augiedoggy]

That doesn't even look like it's boiling! Definitely not a "rolling boil"

That video is a smooth rolling boil.. Do you not see the liquid on the surface constantly rolling up and back down?

 

[Ragtop232]

This is a perfect boil in my opinion. I'll assure you that boil will have at least a 10% boil-off rate. Some think if you don't have a huge violent boil and boiling off 30% it's not really a boil. I digress, to each their own I guess.

 

[Blackmuse]

Here is a link to the boil I had rolling on my first batch on the RoboBrew. The description and video itself shows most of the details. This was a slightly more than 6 gallon boil. I got exactly 5 gallons (with no noticeable trub) into the fermenter.

https://youtu.be/76rx7rkoq_8

So just over 6 in the boil and 5 exact to the fermenter? How much did you leave behind in the kettle and what do you suppose your boil off was? 60 minute boil? I'd love to get some decent numbers to add to my profile for when I bite the bullet and pick one up.

 

[mhochman]

So just over 6 in the boil and 5 exact to the fermenter? How much did you leave behind in the kettle and what do you suppose your boil off was? 60 minute boil? I'd love to get some decent numbers to add to my profile for when I bite the bullet and pick one up.

Since this was my first batch on the unit, I was focusing on the steps and keeping a close eye on temps, etc, so I never got precise recordings on volume, etc. I definitely spared until I had just over 6 gallons. I'd say 6.15 to start the boil. It was exactly 5 gal with no trub into the fermenter. I didn't think to measure how much wort was left behind underneath the false bottom, but there was only hop over the false bottom. Next batch I will try to get an accurate reading of that and report back. Hoping to brew next week.

 

[skraeling]

I wonder if you can still find V2 of the robobrew... I don't really want the pump and chiller but waterproof controls and larger size (to avoid boil over) would be nice. For say 350-400....

With only 1600w elements... neither of these will ever boil over unless you have them at utterly max capacity or leave a lid on.

at least what ive seen with my GF so far.

 

[chuckalhashib]

I'm leaning toward this over the GF, but I'd like to get a CFC of some stripe too. @mhochman, did you use the included IC or some other method? When you say some wort was left under the false bottom, does that mean you used the valve on the unit rather than pump the wort to the fermenter?

Cheers

 

[mhochman]

I'm leaning toward this over the GF, but I'd like to get a CFC of some stripe too. @mhochman, did you use the included IC or some other method? When you say some wort was left under the false bottom, does that mean you used the valve on the unit rather than pump the wort to the fermenter?

Cheers

I used the included chiller and it worked perfectly. The vessel is very tall and thin, and the chiller gets pretty deep. I have a CFC and a different IC. My existing IC is too wide and not nearly deep enough and with how well the included chiller works, I have no plans to try the CFC with it. So much easier to clean an IC!

For your other question, yes I used the valve only and did not pump the wort out at all. I don't own a pump, other than the k e built into the RB. I suppose I could use the built in pump and attach a tube from the end of the recirculation arm to a fermenter, but I'm not sure it's worth it. Something to think about. Do people do that with the GF?

 

[chuckalhashib]

Thanks for the reply. I'm curious about how long it took to chill--of course there are many variables. I'm looking for a system that doesn't need much babysitting nor makes for a long brew day once I get used to the process, and a CFC seems like it would be a time-saver--advantage GF. However, the RB is much cheaper, and adding a CFC would be less than the GF still.

Maybe I'll give the included IC a try before I get a CFC and use my old IC as a pre-chiller.

 

[Chromedome93]

Don't forget to factor in the time to clean that CFC.

 

[mhochman]

Thanks for the reply. I'm curious about how long it took to chill--of course there are many variables. I'm looking for a system that doesn't need much babysitting nor makes for a long brew day once I get used to the process, and a CFC seems like it would be a time-saver--advantage GF. However, the RB is much cheaper, and adding a CFC would be less than the GF still.

Maybe I'll give the included IC a try before I get a CFC and use my old IC as a pre-chiller.

I don't think I marked it in my notes, but I'm pretty sure I took a look at the clock at the start and end of chilling, and it was about 25 minutes.

 

[mhochman]

Don't forget to factor in the time to clean that CFC.

What he said. Plenty easy to hose the IC down while oxygenating the wort.

 

[skraeling]

What he said. Plenty easy to hose the IC down while oxygenating the wort.

I have zero issues keeping my cfc clean. Run hot water through it and call it a day.

 

[chuckalhashib]

Don't forget to factor in the time to clean that CFC.

I don't think I marked it in my notes, but I'm pretty sure I took a look at the clock at the start and end of chilling, and it was about 25 minutes.

Is IC chilling + cleaning time < CFC chilling + cleaning time? Hosing down an IC certainly doesn't take long--good point.

I have zero issues keeping my cfc clean. Run hot water through it and call it a day.

I was thinking of doing CIP on the whole system, CFC included. I guess I need to backflush, too, but that doesn't take much effort, right? Just reconnect hoses and run water.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

My oxygenation stone is built into my plate chiller set up and I don't think it takes very long to clean effectively if you've already drug out the pump. BUT in my neverending mission to simplify, I love brew days with my BIAB rig in which I never have to pull out the chugger pump at all...I'm leaning towards eliminating the pump and the plate chiller and buying a Jaded Hydra!

 

[augiedoggy]

I have zero issues keeping my cfc clean. Run hot water through it and call it a day.

Im trying to understand how its different than cleaning an ic chiller myself? wort still travels inside the long coiled copper tubing right? hot or boiling liquid sanitizes than and as long as its rinsed directly after use it should stay pretty clean. thats what I do with my plate chiller.