One additional question. Do you normally put tape on your fittings on the inside of your kettles? I did, but just wondering if that could be a problem later.
Correct- That's for an electric based brewery. There are no poisonous gases with with an electric brewery and there is considerably less heat too (none is wasted since the element is in the wort/water). Marty has gas burners that have to produce a lot more heat (and poisonous gases as a byproduct) so the venting requirements are much higher than electric. Definitely ask again.With respects to ventilation, I was advised to use a fan that was 400 CFM or higher even though my elements are only 5500w. Anything over 500 is likely overkill for an electric brewery.
I'd be surprised if you have a carbon dioxide (CO2) detector as that's what we breath out (and plants like). It's also what yeast expels when fermenting and what we carbonate our beer with. I don't know why these sorts of detectors would even be available for sale in the first place or why you would want to have one?
Carbon Monoxide (CO) is the one you care about: It's the poisonous gas that is expelled when natural gas and propane is burnt. It's a colorless, odorless, and tasteless gas that is toxic to humans above certain levels.
If you have the CO detector in the same spots where you are working in and around the kettles and it's not going off then you're probably ok and the poisonous CO is being expelled correctly, assuming it's working correctly. There may be higher concentrations that would would normally be permitted near/in/around the kettles so you may want to try moving the detector around a bit to where you normally work. For example, it's not uncommon to have our head/face pretty close to the boil kettle when working.
Kal
To the OP and trimixdiver1: Not to derail this thread any further, but why do people want a CO2 detector? Why do you use one? (Google isn't helping - it thinks I want to know why someone would use a CO detector).
Kal
Based on some quick searches, John Blichmann's requirements of dividing the BTU's by 30 seem about twice as high as what the interwebs recommends which is (generally speaking):
For gas cooking surfaces or range, a minimum ventilation level of 100 CFM (Cubic Feet per Minute) per 10,000 BTU is recommended. However, the hood must have a minimum of 500 CFM of ventilation power.
Duct work and elbows and other things increase the CFM requirements because they add restriction which (depending on the fan model) can severely lower the CFM. For example, every 90 degree below on a 6" duct can add the equivalent of ~25 feet. A good rule of thumb is to add 10 CFM for every foot of ductwork and 25 CFM for any elbows.
So an example: Say you have a 80,000 BTU burner (fairly typical) with 20 feet of run and 3 elbows. That would require 800 + 20 + (3x25) = 895 CFM.
Equally important in many houses is the make up air. Most modern houses are so well sealed that the make up air has nowhere to come from (unless you open a window).
More food for thought.
Kal
The numbers I posted and you quoted were actually taken from various sites after I Googled "how many vent hood CFM per BTU?" - they're all about kitchen stove venting. Most say 100 CFM per 10,000 BTU plus extra to make up for the ductwork/elbows.This got me thinking about home ranges.
Really? I would say the opposite. It's the 50+ year old houses I see that have hoods with charcoal filters that vent directly into the house - they're electric too since back in the 40's and 50's everyone had electric stoves.Given that most kitchens have zero external ventilation these days...
Correct. Newer homes are much tighter and the chance of pulling air from places like a fireplace is a concern (you could suck embers right into the house when your turn on your stove fan). This is why building code changes over time as house construction changes. The two go hand in hand.Also, depending on how "tight" Marty's house is for every CF of dirty air he pushs out of the basement a fresh CF has to come from somewhere. I would assume a lower volume is quite capable of squeezing through standard home gaps (doors, windows, soffit vents) but at a larger CFM wouldn't, one run the risk of pulling air back through other vents (furnace, hot water heater) unless additional intake air was made available to the home?
Really? I would say the opposite. It's the 50+ year old houses I see that have hoods with charcoal filters that vent directly into the house - they're electric too since back in the 40's and 50's everyone had electric stoves.
Correct. Newer homes are much tighter and the chance of pulling air from places like a fireplace is a concern (you could suck embers right into the house when your turn on your stove fan). This is why building code changes over time as house construction changes. The two go hand in hand.
My current home is new and build to our region's 2010 code standards. While it varies by region, part of this standard is that a whole house make-up air system must be installed if the range hood is more than about 300 CFM. So we have a large (12") duct in the basement feeding into our HVAC cold air return that's connected to the outside, with a damper valve that opens/closes whenever the we use the range hood. There's a 3000W electric heater in line too to avoid freezing/condensation in the winter. All of this extra expense is required because homes are built so super tight these days to save money. Ironic that the make-up air system wasn't cheap - it cost more than your average range!
HRVs and ERVs (air exchangers) are also more popular given how tight houses are today. The air in the house gets stale from cooking, breathing, off-gassing of man made materials, etc.
Definitely a conversion for a separate topic like you mentioned!
Kal
I would assume so. I think they were only viable back when nobody had gas ranges. My mother-in-law has one in her 50+ year old house (for example).Charcoal filter hoods that dump right back into the kitchen are for smoke and odors, not CO right?
Nope. I don't see how you could use a non-evacuating hood with a gas range. They're probably not even even allowed to build houses in most areas with these non-evacuating hoods anymore as it limits what sort of range the homeowner can install.I guess I don't see how that battles the CO produced by these monstruos ranges in todays kitchens.
Most sites that explain what CFM you need are selling you a hood. They probably don't care. But you're right. As I mentioned above it also depends on the home, the code it was built to, and so forth. Always good that the homeowner do some research into what's safe/recommended themselves and not rely on the (sometimes incorrect) opinions of others of course. Trust but verify!If you had to add an external intake to make up for the loss due to your ventilation shouldn't that be part of the recommendation?
Sorry for not responding guys. Work has been crazy. I will try and read through everything tonight. I appreciate everyone's responses. I say this lovingly...you are all a bunch of nerds.Not to change the subject as safety is always a concern. But on another note what do you think of the 2 compartment sink? Enough for all your needs or wish you had the 3rd? I am going back and forth so reason for or against is much appreciated.
Kal,I'd be surprised if you have a carbon dioxide (CO2) detector as that's what we breath out (and plants like). It's also what yeast expels when fermenting and what we carbonate our beer with. I don't know why these sorts of detectors would even be available for sale in the first place or why you would want to have one?
Carbon Monoxide (CO) is the one you care about: It's the poisonous gas that is expelled when natural gas and propane is burnt. It's a colorless, odorless, and tasteless gas that is toxic to humans above certain levels.
If you have the CO detector in the same spots where you are working in and around the kettles and it's not going off then you're probably ok and the poisonous CO is being expelled correctly, assuming it's working correctly. There may be higher concentrations that would would normally be permitted near/in/around the kettles so you may want to try moving the detector around a bit to where you normally work. For example, it's not uncommon to have our head/face pretty close to the boil kettle when working.
Kal
Careful with the sizing of the fan and using natural gas. That's a 452 CFM (only) fan - enoug for electric but not really for natural gas / propane.
Due to the extra heat and poisonous gases that must be removed, the ventilation requirements are considerably higher with a gas brewery as compared to electric.
John Blichmann wrote an article for the November 2012 issue of BYO magazine that summarized ventilation requirements as follows:
Electric based brewery: Divide the element size (in watts) by 17.6 to obtain the required CFM (cubic feet per minute). (Example: I use a 5500W element in our boil kettle. 5500 / 17.6 = 312 CFM).
Gas based brewery: Divide the burner’s BTU/hour rating by 30. (Because of the inefficiencies, a 80,000 BTU burner produces approximately the same amount of heat in the kettle as a 5500W element. 80,000 / 30 = 2666 CFM. You would therefore require a fan that can move 2666 CFM in order to ventilate a gas setup properly if you are running a total of 80,000 BTU in burners at once.)
Kal
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