Malt Conditioning... WOW it rocks!

[conpewter]

Hey The Pol, could I get a picture or something of your mash tun? I am still trying to track down efficiency issues in my setup. I've done a lot of water adjustment as you know so I don't believe that to be my issue, PH papers show I'm in the right range but they are not very accurate anyway.

 

[The Pol]

Hey The Pol, could I get a picture or something of your mash tun? I am still trying to track down efficiency issues in my setup. I've done a lot of water adjustment as you know so I don't believe that to be my issue, PH papers show I'm in the right range but they are not very accurate anyway.

I can get you one, is your conversion eff. lacking, ,or lauter? That is the real question. If you have good conversion eff, your lauter eff can SUCK and you are still at 80%

I dont currently have one, but it is just a SS falsie in the bottom of a 10 gallon cooler...

 

[The Pol]

CONPEWTER!

Here in this video of mine, at 3:55 you can see my MLT innards!
http://iam.homebrewtalk.com/videos.php?u=7954&Video_ID=119#video119

 

[conpewter]

Hmm I've been wanting to improve both. I need to get my first runnings readings and find out how my efficiency is doing. I have an old grain mill and I'm saving up for one I can adjust to perhaps help with conversion.

I'm also worried my stainless braid in the cooler doesn't siphon very well and leaves wort behind.

 

[bob1852]

I was about to go on a rant About how even in a thread that has nothing to do with eff... the eff. monster and wort quality comes up... WTF?

the Godwin's law of HBT - all threads turn into efficiency and wort quality

 

[beerocd]

Hmm I've been wanting to improve both. I need to get my first runnings readings and find out how my efficiency is doing. I have an old grain mill and I'm saving up for one I can adjust to perhaps help with conversion.

I'm also worried my stainless braid in the cooler doesn't siphon very well and leaves wort behind.

You can borrow my mill or my pot with false bottom if you're trying to prove something to yourself. Also got a 5 gal cooler with plastic false bottom. Let me know...

-OCD

 

[The Pol]

It is nice to know where your eff. is coming from. I mean, if you hit 80% and it is all coming from your conversion eff, that is awesome.

If your eff. is 70% and it is all coming from your lauter, that is a potential problem.

If someone has never calculated thier conversion or lauter eff, you have no idea what is actually taking place, which means you could be oversparging. I think Conpewter suspects his conversion eff. and he wants to check it and increase it so he can then sparge less and improve quality.

It is false to assume that lower eff. means you arent oversparging, quite contrary. So it is nice to look at the system and determine if you are making sugars, or if you are just sparging like crazy to get the ones that you do convert, out.

 

[The Pol]

the Godwin's law of HBT - all threads turn into efficiency and wort quality

Even though it seems understanding of either is quite limited.

 

[hopsoda]

will this work with a corona mill?

 

[The Pol]

You know, I saw that thread

I dont know, since the Corona is not a roller mill, it is more prone to tearing the husks. I DO think it will help, and I think people have used it on them. Id give it a try. Do a test, the difference is HUGE, so you will be able to tell easily.

 

[beerocd]

I think Conpewter suspects his conversion eff. and he wants to check it and increase it so he can then sparge less and improve quality.

So then the mill.....

Man somebody REALLY pushed your buttons tonight POL.

You got the double-wide soap box out!

-OCD

 

[The Pol]

Blibbity blabbity...


Back to the OP, malt conditioning works and is SUPER easy.

 

[Beerrific]

I think I am going to try this on my next beer....

What is the ideal time between wetting it and crushing?
The Pol, what is you gap in your mill set at?

 

[The Pol]

I think I am going to try this on my next beer....

What is the ideal time between wetting it and crushing?
The Pol, what is you gap in your mill set at?

They say you can wait overnight... I waited 10 minutes.

My gap is .035"

Try it, it will blow your mind!!

 

[Hex]

I've been following this one with interest.
10 minutes might be just enough to soften the hulls, while leaving the germ intact.
When put through the crusher, the hulls will separate from the germ intact, and the germ will grind as normally dry.

 

[OLDBREW]

make sure you have SS rollers, or you really dry the rollers well after milling. If not you will get rust on the steel knurled rollers. Germans use this method to cut down on the dust and get a better crush.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I think I am going to try this on my next beer....

What is the ideal time between wetting it and crushing?
The Pol, what is you gap in your mill set at?

Hex got it...that quote from the pro brewer earlier in the thread mentioned it too...you want the husk leathery but the kernel dry so it cracks and crumbles like normal. So I wouldn't condition it the night before crushing it. I usually wait about 10 minutes.

Glad it worked so well for you Pol...well I guess we'll see when you do your mash.

 

[The Pol]

Hex got it...that quote from the pro brewer earlier in the thread mentioned it too...you want the husk leathery but the kernel dry so it cracks and crumbles like normal. So I wouldn't condition it the night before crushing it. I usually wait about 10 minutes.

Glad it worked so well for you Pol...well I guess we'll see when you do your mash.

I am going to start the brewcast a little early and condition the malt live, then mill it, by hand as well.
It worked really well, the grist looks NOTHING like the dry milled grist (husks only), but we will see if it allows me to turn over a couple quarts/min.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I turn by hand too and it seems harder when conditioned. In the other thread I mentioned that it might not look crushed enough but that those intact husks are actually empty. Yours looks just like that. I'll be interested to see if you get any more grits passing...I get a little more but I'm just fly sparging, not circulating.

 

[The Pol]

I turn by hand too and it seems harder when conditioned. In the other thread I mentioned that it might not look crushed enough but that those intact husks are actually empty. Yours looks just like that. I'll be interested to see if you get any more grits passing...I get a little more but I'm just fly sparging, not circulating.

Yeah, I am interested in the particles too... after 90 minutes of recirculating, it will be interesting to see where it is at for clarity.

It was a little tighter to crush by hand, but not hard at all... never crushed by hand and I thought it was pretty easy. I will do it tomorrow to to keep myself and the malt connected on a more spiritual level

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

It was a little tighter to crush by hand, but not hard at all... never crushed by hand and I thought it was pretty easy. I will do it tomorrow to to keep myself and the malt connected on a more spiritual level

I'm old and outta shape so 12 pounds kinda wears me out. But my mill doesn't even turn that 'easily' with nothing in it...my drill (Black & Decker corded) can't budge it.

Be...the malt.
manananananana

 

[The Pol]

What mill do you use?

 

[conpewter]

Hey thanks for the help! Yes I suspect my conversion efficiency is not that great. I have been saving up money for a new mill but have yet to get it. I do have a nice motor for it now though. The mill I got is only 2" long and I run it at pretty high speed (the drill I have on it really only has 1 speed) so I don't think I'm getting as good a crush as I could. I've got dinged for astringency in a couple of my brews in competition so I think my problem lies with low conversion efficiency and too much sparging. I have been mashing thinner to help with the sparging. Anyway guess it's time to pony up for a nice mill. I'm planning on building it such that it sits on top of the cooler, mills the grain right into the water, most of the dust will be contained.

 

[The Pol]

Hey thanks for the help! Yes I suspect my conversion efficiency is not that great. I have been saving up money for a new mill but have yet to get it. I do have a nice motor for it now though. The mill I got is only 2" long and I run it at pretty high speed (the drill I have on it really only has 1 speed) so I don't think I'm getting as good a crush as I could. I've got dinged for astringency in a couple of my brews in competition so I think my problem lies with low conversion efficiency and too much sparging. I have been mashing thinner to help with the sparging. Anyway guess it's time to pony up for a nice mill. I'm planning on building it such that it sits on top of the cooler, mills the grain right into the water, most of the dust will be contained.

Glad I could help...

Yeah, like I said, if you can get your conv. eff. to about 100% (totally possible) then you dont have to sparge nearly as much as everyone else, and you will be hitting 80% every time to boot.

Less astringency, higher eff. and you gained knowlege of what it actually means to mash and lauter on your sytem.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

It's a 7# BC, gap @ ~ 0.036". It squeaks too but it always did.

 

[Tonedef131]

It's a 7# BC, gap @ ~ 0.036". It squeaks too but it always did.

You gotta grease that bad boy up.

 

[The Pol]

It's a 7# BC, gap @ ~ 0.036". It squeaks too but it always did.

Wow... it is that hard to turn? Granted my replacement mill is only a couple months old but I can smack the handle and it will make a couple revolutions. Are your rollers crooked? I mean, when they are adjusted, you can have them adjusted so that the ends are misaligned....

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

The rollers are even...I measure the gap every so often and always look through the gap before crushing to see if it is even (I found it uneven one time). I actually think that the driven roller is a tiny bit too long...so it's ends are rubbing against the housing (and the passive roller actually has some play). I've never really looked into it because it gives a nice crush and I need the exercise (stupid reason but w/e).

 

[The Pol]

That is cool... I will be huffing it out on camera at about 9am tomorrow morning!

 

[RighteousFire]

I run a corona mill and condition my malt all the time now. It works very well and allows me to set it just a little finer than normal.

I spray and mix and then immediatly mill after the conditioning. It works just fine. The husks absorb the water rather quickly.

 

[The Pol]

I run a corona mill and condition my malt all the time now. It works very well and allows me to set it just a little finer than normal.

I spray and mix and then immediatly mill after the conditioning. It works just fine. The husks absorb the water rather quickly.

Glad to hear it works on the Corona too!

 

[pjj2ba]

I spray and mix and then immediatly mill after the conditioning. It works just fine. The husks absorb the water rather quickly.

Yes people, as RF says, the water is absorbed pretty quickly so the grains aren't "wet". They just feel "softer"

One word of caution though. If you do let the grain sit for a short time, give it a quick stir before dumping it into your hopper. Once conditioned it doesn't flow quite as smoothly as when dry. I *almost* ended up spilling a bunch of grain when I went to pour it out of my bucket into my hopper and it had stuck together a little and a huge clump (like 1/3 of the grain) came sliding out all at once, almost knocking my hopper off

 

[Hex]

Good advise pj!

 

[aeonderdonk]

might have to give this a whirl with the old corona rig

 

[JVD_X]

Pol, why don't you use less grain rather than trying to reduce efficiency?

 

[The Pol]

If you reduce grain, and keep the eff. you arent solving the problem.

The issue is that I need to reduce my lauter eff., reducing the grain bill will not do this. Reducing my sparge volume will. On my next brew I have almost 8 gallons pre-boil, the sparge will contribute only 3 gallons.

My lauter eff. is pushing 91%, I need to back that off so that I can maintain wort quality.

Since the grain is the buffer for the pH during the sparge, I am working up numbers for the % of pre-boil wort that should be derived from sparging. Obviously this will be tied to the size of the grain bill. More grain, more sparge water, less grain, less sparging.


The way people brew now, if you ALWAYS use the same qt/lb mash ratio, the smaller your grain bill, the MORE you sparge (to reach your boil volume) which is counter productive when trying to avoid tannin extraction.

 

[KingBrianI]

If you reduce grain, and keep the eff. you arent solving the problem.

The issue is that I need to reduce my lauter eff., reducing the grain bill will not do this. Reducing my sparge volume will. On my next brew I have almost 8 gallons pre-boil, the sparge will contribute only 3 gallons.

My lauter eff. is pushing 91%, I need to back that off so that I can maintain wort quality.

Forgive me for not having followed the efficiency threads, but have you noticed any particular problem with your "wort's quality" or is the push to decrease lauter efficiency due to percieved potential problems?

 

[The Pol]

My beer has always been crap

 

[hopsoda]

LOL

 

[beerocd]

Don't say efficiency aroung The Pol. It makes him crazy. Like the 3Stooges episode with Niagara Falls. Slowly he turns.....step by step ......

Pol -So your brew tomorrow isn't going over 2qts/lb is it? I notice you want to sparge less [in order to reduce the chance of extracting tannins ], but still need the same number of gallons in the pot - so that's more water up front. I thought 2qt was some magic threshold - you gonna bust that myth too? If you mentioned it before, sorry - but you're ~9,000 posts ahead of me. I haven't read em all.

-OCD