Making Traditional Sake! The difference between it and Rice wine.

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I think i'm going to err on the side of caution and look for either the #9 strain (WLP709) or the Lalvin 1116 strain for the first batch. I'm not opposed to experimenting but I like to follow a new technique/new recipe as closely as possible until I have that mastered. Why run before you can crawl, eh?

Since i'll be following your forumla verbatium until I have the process down, it looks like i'll be moving to the moto step by already having the koji rice. I'm going to add the dry koji rice in the same amount as your recommending for your Kome-Koji (38.93 grams).

I'll be soaking the 78.99 dry grams of Kokuho Rose sushi rice in water overnight in my fridge, then steam up the rice in my rice steamer and add it to 129.05 grams of cold filtered water to cool it down to koji pitching temperature. After it's cooled down below 100 degrees (lowest reading on my thermometer), i'll mix in the koji rice.

I don't have any pure DAP but I do have yeast nutrient and i'm pretty sure that DAP is a major component (plus zinc, etc.). I will add 1/8 of a teaspoon yeast nutrient to the cold filtered water.

After combining in the jar, i'll aerate it by sealing the jar and stir the hell out of it for five minutes, then repeat, then stir twice a day for 48 hours before moving on to the next step.
 
Now my kome-koji was wet and heavier so if you are using dry kome-koji just make sure you are adjusting by weighing out the original dry kome-koji and multiplying by the numbers given at the first of the thread. So you will have the same volume of rice but will be a lighter weight.
 
I think I understand what you're saying. I'm using the same 1185 total grams of dry rice an 1936 total grams of water. For the dry koji rice I have, are you saying that I need to measure out the 1 & 1/3 cups of it, weigh that in grams, then multiply it by the 6.666% to get the amount needed to add to each of the steps?

Also, just got word from the LHBS, 1116 is all they have in stock at the moment. 1116 it is. :)
 
aiptasia said:
I think I understand what you're saying. I'm using the same 1185 total grams of dry rice an 1936 total grams of water. For the dry koji rice I have, are you saying that I need to measure out the 1 & 1/3 cups of it, weigh that in grams, then multiply it by the 6.666% to get the amount needed to add to each of the steps?

Also, just got word from the LHBS, 1116 is all they have in stock at the moment. 1116 it is. :)
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Yes you are absolutely correct on the above.
 
Very good. Thank you for the clarification. I also noticed on your list of steps where you have each day activity listed that you're missing a few places where you're letting the ferment warm up to 70f and then not specifying when to put the fermenter jar back into the 50's. It reads like, "day x, let it warm up to 70f" and then a few days later, "day x, let it warm up to 70f" without the steps of putting the fermenter back into the 50's. Somewhere in there, you'll need to cool the rice back down to avoid lactobacillus growth.

I'm assuming the steps are, let it warm up to 70f for a day, feed it koji and wait a day, feed it rice and wait a day, cool it back down. Repeat after x amount of days.

I had some luck at the brew shop. I picked up two packets of 1116 and White Labs 705 Sake Yeast, which is yeast strain #7. I'm going to use 1116 in the batch I have intended to do in 1 gallon glass bell jar, but I also have a few smaller half gallon jars. I'm going to try the #7 strain in one of the smaller jars and just for fun, i'll try the pilsner yeast in the other half gallon jar. The brew shop also carries the Koji spore kits, so next batch I can make the Koma-Koji from scratch and use fresh fungus with my sake.
 
Ok, so 1&1/3 cup of dry koji rice came to 240 grams. Multiplied by 6.666% that comes to 15.9984 grams of koji rice for each koji addition. My kitchen digital scale isn't very fine so i'm having to measure out and use 15.9 grams. I'm hoping this is adequate, or I could always round up to 16 grams.
 
aiptasia said:
Very good. Thank you for the clarification. I also noticed on your list of steps where you have each day activity listed that you're missing a few places where you're letting the ferment warm up to 70f and then not specifying when to put the fermenter jar back into the 50's. It reads like, "day x, let it warm up to 70f" and then a few days later, "day x, let it warm up to 70f" without the steps of putting the fermenter back into the 50's. Somewhere in there, you'll need to cool the rice back down to avoid lactobacillus growth.

I'm assuming the steps are, let it warm up to 70f for a day, feed it koji and wait a day, feed it rice and wait a day, cool it back down. Repeat after x amount of days.

I had some luck at the brew shop. I picked up two packets of 1116 and White Labs 705 Sake Yeast, which is yeast strain #7. I'm going to use 1116 in the batch I have intended to do in 1 gallon glass bell jar, but I also have a few smaller half gallon jars. I'm going to try the #7 strain in one of the smaller jars and just for fun, i'll try the pilsner yeast in the other half gallon jar. The brew shop also carries the Koji spore kits, so next batch I can make the Koma-Koji from scratch and use fresh fungus with my sake.
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Haha you are correct about the whole warming and cooling bit. Darn too much time has passed and I can't edit. Basically there on page two post 19 I believe where I consolidated the steps add on day 9 to cool down the mash back to the 50ish range. You want about 3 warm days and 3 cool days in the part.
 
Arpolis said:
Haha you are correct about the whole warming and cooling bit. Darn too much time has passed and I can't edit. Basically there on page two post 19 I believe where I consolidated the steps add on day 9 to cool down the mash back to the 50ish range. You want about 3 warm days and 3 cool days in the part.
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Perfect. Got it. :)

So here's what i've just done: I've cleaned and sanitized a one gallon bell jar and lid, rice spoon, measuring cups and scale tray. Once the tray dried out, I took the 78.99 grams of Kukho Rose sushi rice (soaked in my fridge overnight) and steamed it up with an equal amount of water in my small six cup rice steamer.

I took the steamed rice and scooped it into the 1 gallon bell jar with my rice spoon. I added 129.05 grams of cold zephyrhills bottled water to the jar and mixed it with the rice spoon to lower the temperature of the rice. I let it sit about five minutes to cool down. I added the 15.9 grams of dried koji rice and mixed it in once it felt cool enough. I then remembered I forgot the yeast nutrient so I measured out 1/8th of a teaspoon and sprinkled it in, then mixed again with the spoon. I put the lid on it and sealed it and placed the jar in an upper kitchen cabinet to keep warm, dry and dark while the koji does it's work.

So far, so good. :cool:
 
The Koji works fast. I opened the cabinet this morning to mix up the contents of the jar and the rice appears to be about 70% liquefied. I'm going to pitch the yeast after making a starter tomorrow and then chill it down to about 50f in my kegerator overnight for 12 hours. Saturday, i'll remove it and let it warm back up into the 70's back in the dark cabinet in my kitchen. I am going to miss two days worth of stir steps on Sunday and Monday as I have some out of town business to attend to, then i'll be back tuesday to stir it and then cool it back down to 50f.
 
O.k., day five on the steps list. Here are my notes:

The koji+rice+water is mostly white glucose soup now. Very few solids look suspended in the liquid. It looks like white glucose soup in the jar. I decided to rely on a little past brewing experience and pitch the yeast directly to the glucose soup. My reasons for this are many. First, It's morning and i'm feeling lazy. I know that by creating a starter using one type of sugar food source for your yeast and then switching the sugar source after you pitch the yeast stresses the yeast (potentially producing off flavors). I know that yeast prefer glucose and fructose preferentially over long chain sugars, so it's likely that they'll consume the glucose and fructose first anyway leaving residual unconsumed long chain sugars in the mash (potential food for lactobacillus or other bacteria). And lastly, Lalvin 1116 appears to be a vigorous beast of a yeast and should have no problems with direct pitching.

So, I mixed the yeast in 1/3 cup of water with energizer and pitched. I'm using cheesecloth wedged between the mouth of the jar and the lid as an airlock and letting the moto rest at room temperature for an hour to let the yeast activate. Then, it's going into the cold until 11:00 pm tonight in my temperature controlled drop freezer.
 
O.k., the Moto starter is cooling off in the drop freezer set to 50 degrees f.. After an hour rest after pitching, the yeast was moving fast with a nice even coat of foam at room temperature. I shall pull it out of the freezer at 11 pm tonight and place it back in the cabinet to slowly warm back up in the dark.
 
Sounds good. I guess with the sake yeast being in liquid form it is more important to do a starter and that is why I am used to it. 1116 as a dry yeast should do better with a direct pitch compared to liquid yeasts. So from the sounds of it you look to be doing well.
 
Ok, I pulled out the starter from the drop freezer last night at 11 pm and all of the visible yeast activity (foaming, etc.) has ceased. Stir step one this morning and two this afternoon and no visible yeast activity in the starter. Again, I will be missing the stir steps for the next two days but will be home in time on Tuesday to cool off the yeast again. It's still pretty glutinous and soupy so i'm not worried about missing the starter stir steps that much at this point. Everything in the jar looks like it's in complete contact with each other so it should be fine.
 
sonofgrok said:
Just checked in on this thread. Yep, I still don't have the patience to do it... :)
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The history of sake, and the traditional steps used to make it including the maths and attention to detail is what's most appealing about it to me. That, plus if I get a nice, clear, dry to semi-dry sake as a result is just pure enjoyment to me. :)

I do have some questions about the settling and clearing stages to produce a very clear sake. From what i'm reading in Arpolis's steps, is that after squeezing the lees in a sanitized fine mesh bag, you filter the sake again through a nest of sanitized, wet cheesecloth through a funnel to remove the bigger rice solids.
After that, it looks like you're using a crushed campden tablet to kill off the microbial action in the sake and adding potassium sorbate as a preservative. I'm not sure if the chemical additions are necessary if you pasteurize the sake once it's bottled but better safe than sorry.

I know that in my rice wine, getting it to clear requires some cold crashing. I plan on doing the same thing with the sake, by adding the chemical additions, adding the bentonite powder pre-mixed with a little water (per bentonite instructions), stirring it up good and then cold crashing the batch down to 33 degrees. Then, I plan to rack off the clear sake and bottle it, then heat pasteurize it by heating a 40 quart pot of water to 190f, add in the bottles and cover with a pot lid, cut the heat off then allow the bottles to sit in the hot water for ten minutes and pasteurize.

If those clearing steps sound feasible, or if you have any insights into clearing the sake, please let me know. :)
 
I use the Camden and sorbate because I am generally too lazy to pasteurize after bottling. I know I know I have the time and pairience to go through the 100+ grueling steps but I can't pasteurize? Eh I get lazy at the end I guess.

So if you bottle pasteurize then no need to add the Camden and sorbate.

If you want what is called "Mirin" which is just cloudy sake. you bottle right after straining through the cheese cloth and if you use the Camden sorbate method it will often back sweeten itself by about .002 or so because many enzymes will keep working but the yeast stops completely. Just cold crashing will mostly clear the sake but by industry standards if you want "brilliant" sake then using the bentonite as you explained is the way to go. I just cold crash it myself usually.
 
I did an experiment with red rice wine where I tried to clear it with bentonite powder. It wasn't effective. I believe that so many suspended solids where present that the attractive force of the bentonite simply got overwhelmed.

I just finished a simple experiment where I filtered red rice wine through a coffee filter, and a piece of leftover polyester fabric. The fabric was a more effective filter, but also clogged so badly that about 1/8th of the liquid was left in the filter. The coffee filter did not remove as many of the solids, but it also did not clog.

You might want to filter before using the bentonite, or I'm afraid you are likely to run into the same problem I did.
 
Arpolis said:
Just cold crashing will mostly clear the sake but by industry standards if you want "brilliant" sake then using the bentonite as you explained is the way to go. I just cold crash it myself usually.
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I have a third batch of rice wine i'm due to press on Thursday. I think i'm going to use the clearing technique that i'd outlined for the sake on the rice wine to see how that clears up. Press the lees, strain through thick wet cheesecloth through my big brewing funnel, campden & sorbate, bentonite slurry, cold crash. Then, after it clears, pasteurize.

Leadgolem said:
You might want to filter before using the bentonite, or I'm afraid you are likely to run into the same problem I did.
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I plan on doing exactly that. I want as many of the rice solids out of the sake as possible before adding bentonite. What I really wish I had is a micron filter pad that can filter the sake down to about 50 microns. I think that my LHBS carries them for filtering wine and mead but i'm not 100% sure. I know I can get them online. If the clarifying steps fail on the rice wine pressing, I may have to get a micron pad.

I've watched both parts of this video recently and it's just amazing.

 
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I bet 'bubble bags', ice extraction bags would work great for filtration. You can order a nested set, or the specific micron you desire. Just a thought.
 
Ok, the moto is back in the cold drop freezer set to 50f for a few days. I had to wait until 8 pm tonight to put it back into the cold. I hope it's fine. I noted more activity in the jar and a thin layer of clear liquid (presuming alcohol) along the surface of the glucose rice mass. One good shake later and back into the 50's it went. The moto smells like soft vanilla at this point.
 
Yup sounds like it is going well for ya. That soft vanilla smell lets you know you are on track. If it smells sour or tangy you know you have been running too warm and/or your yeast is not taking off.
 
No sourness on the nose. I'm going to be squeezing the rice lees on my third batch of rice wine today and will probably run it through thick layers of wet cheesecloth in my beer funnel. I'm out of campden tablets and sorbate at the moment, so i'll just have to pasteurize it to stop any further bacterial action before using the bentonite on it and cold crashing it. Should be a good experiment to see if I can clear up the rice wine. If that clears up, the sake should be no problem down the road.
 
Well, the bentonite was a little gritty but I was able to get a quarter cup's worth stirred up and added to 32 ounces of rice wine. I poured the bentonite in just before bottling, stirred it in good, then added the wine to the bottle to be pasteurized. I heated the water to 190f in my 40 quart pot, set in the 32 ounce swing top bottle and put a lid over the pot and cut off the heat. It sat in the water for ten minutes completely submerged and then I pulled the bottle out with tongs. Right now, the bottle is cold crashing in my fridge. I'm going to let it rest for another 24 hours to see how well it clarifies.
 
Home now. I had a lumbar puncture yesterday so I wasn't allowed to be all that mobile around the house so i've had to delay the second koji-adding step until today. The sake is still in the cold but I will be removing it shortly and adding the second amount of koji rice, which by my math is 31.9 grams this addition.

I can report that the bentonite addition into the rice wine worked extremely well in the steps I posted above. The 32 ounce swing top bottle that I used for the rice wine has 2/3rds clear liquid rice wine at the top and 1/3 murky white rice wine at the bottom. I'm going to attempt to carefully rack off the clear liquid later tonight into a smaller swing top bottle and bring it to my city's friendly bottle share tomorrow for sampling and appreciation.

I wish I had a small dosing pump and some aquarium tubing to use to rack it off. I don't want to siphon by mouth but it looks like I may have to do just that unless anyone knows of some good siphoning techniques using small tubing.
 
Ok, back to the Sake.... Moromi begins!

My medical procedure yesterday left me relatively immobile the rest of the day so I had to let the moto sit in the drop freezer an extra day. I removed the moto this morning in preparation for the main fermentation. I weighed out the 31.9 grams of dry koji rice, which was also cold. I store the dry koji rice in my kitchen fridge in the tub and inner plastic bag it was packaged in from the Japanese store. I added the dry koji to the moto starter and gently stirred it in prior to the starter coming up to room temperature. No off smells to report, just more vanilla and alcohol notes on the nose. It's now resting up to room temperature in my dark kitchen cabinet again.

Tomorrow, i'll add the second rice addition which calculates out to 157.9 dry grams of dry Kokhuo Rose sushi rice (then cooked in my rice steamer) and 258.1 grams of zepherhills bottled water. At this point, i'm really appreciating the large clear plastic tray on top of my digital kitchen scale. It may not be hugely accurate that scale, but it does make weighing out the ingredients very simple.
 
I used to do this back in the day. You need the following:

1) 2 small aquarium tubing. One long like a couple feet or more and another short like 4" - 6".
2) 1 large ballon
3) Scissors

Steps:

First sterilize all equipment as always.
Then place balloon over the top of the bottle.
Next cut the top of the ballon off leaving at least 1" - 1.5" of rubber ballon above the lip of the bottle.
Now place both the tubes in the bottle. The long one all the way to the bottom and the short just in past the top. The other end of the long tube goes into your new container.
Finally take your index finger and thumb and grasp both tubes pinching the rubber balloon around the tubes. Stretch the two tubes away from each other a little and that will close the rubber close together. Use your remaining fingers to try and keep the rubber balloon shut. Now you can blow on the short tube and that creates pressure on the inside of the bottle and forces the liquid out the long tube.

Tada!
 
I actually found a small dosing pump for $16 at a local aquarium shop. It's 3.5 gph, uses aquarium tubing and will pull and push fluid. I know that aquarium tubing is small enough to fit through the grommets of bottling buckets and rubber core corks, so it looks like I can rack just about any fluid oxygen free from one container to another. They even make a separate coarse mesh filter for it that looks like it can be sanitized with star san or idophor through the pump lines. It's a
 
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The dosing pump worked extremely well. I was able to rack off about 22-24 ounces (out of 32) of crystal clear rice wine today. If the Sake reacts similarly to the bentonite/pasteurization/cold crash method, it should come out very clear without any filtration steps.

Moromi step one rice addition today. I steamed up 157.9 dry grams of sushi rice and let it cool a little bit in the steamer pan. I then stirred in 258.1 grams of cold zephyrhills bottled water into it to bring the temperature down even more and stirred it up with a sanitized plastic spoon. Once it was below 100 degrees (lowest temp my candy thermometer will read), I scooped and poured it into the jar with the koji rice and moto starter. Again, I stirred it up good for about 30 seconds, then capped it off with sanitized cheese cloth and the lid on top. It's now resting back in the dark kitchen cabinet.

The smell of the Moromi is still a nice, soft, pleasant vanilla scent. The last koji rice addition has absorbed quite a bit of the liquid and each grain looked nice and swollen floating around in there. Everything looks right on track.
 
Third koji rice addition at 63.9 ounces of dried koji rice added today. The last rice addition soaked up a great deal of the liquid and the jar contents are looking like a nice rice pudding. The smell is just that, a vanilla tapioca aroma that is much softer and less fruity than rice wine at a comparable age.
 
I noted the definite slow beginnings of fermentation. Very slight rate bubbling going on in the mash. I added the 3rd rice and cold water addition. The amounts of the third addition were 315.9 dry grams of sushi rice (then steamed) and 516.2 grams of water. I allowed the rice to cool for about ten minutes in the rice steamer and then mixed in the cold water to cool the rice the rest of the way under 100 degrees f. After placing the rice in the jar, I stirred up the mash using my sanitized rice spoon for about 30 seconds. Back into the cabinet it goes. One more set of koji and rice additions to go before a nice three week sleep in the drop freezer at 50f. :)
 
Fermentation is going strong. Added the last addition of Koji rice today, 127.9 grams dry koji. Definite warmth coming from the jar. Still has a strong vanilla scent although alcohol smell is becoming more prevalent. I'm going to put the fermenter back in the cold as soon as I can get the last rice addition added tomorrow.
 
Ooops, slight miscalculation somewhere either in the final volume of rice or the fact that my novelty bell jar i'm using for a fermenter might not be one gallon in capacity as advertised. I was only able to put approx. 1/2 of the final volume of rice (631.9 dry grams, steamed) and water (1032.4 grams) into the jar. I got as much in there as I could and stirred the heck out of it to squeeze in as many rice grains as possible.

Half of the final volume of rice and water had to go into a batch of rice wine that i'd just started last night. I didn't have any other clean fermenting jars or I would have divided the sake up into two batches. No matter, I can't worry about it right now. Into the cold it went. I'm uploading two pictures, one of which is the pre-final addition of rice and the other is just before it went into the drop freezer at 50f.

First batch true sake July 4 2013 2.jpg


First batch true sake july 4 2013 3.jpg
 
I keep hesitating to start this kind of process. I don't have the ability to really control the fermentation temp, and I'm not a fan of tangy rice wine.
 
Temperature control is key. A lot of traditional sake breweries are seasonal and only brew during the winter months for that reason. Commercial breweries strictly control temperature throughout the entire process. Two other secrets i've learned from watching brewers in Japan are:

1) Thinning. Many sakes are thinned with water from the 18-20% ABV range to the 12-14% ABV range using pure water. This does have an effect on acidity as well as other flavors and alcohol levels.

2) Conditioning. Most sakes are conditioned for three to six months to mature any "green" sake flavors and allowing any remaining suspended yeast or rice flour to settle out.
 
Yea I only make this in the winter myself in the really cold months. I get temp fluctuations from time to time and may have temps get near 30's for a night or two but I still have great results. I am sure it would be better with precise temp controls but as long as I am cold when I need to be cold and warm when I need to be warm I get a nice brew.
 
As an aside, the jar that I added the overflowing koji, yeast and sushi rice from the final rice addition into is much further along in saccrification than it's sister jar of pure sushi rice (and yeast ball). There is a huge lake of glucose water taking up 1/3 of the jar in the center. The upper 1/3 is a thick mat of rice lees riddled with CO2 gas bubbles and the bottom 1/3 is a soup of melting rice fluid, koji and yeast water. Looks like the koji is just going to town on it.
 
That is what a proper sake slurry does. The yeast count and enzyme concentration should be much higher than in rice wines.
 

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