Making Cider From Freeze Dried Apple Juice Powder??

[Peakr8]

Hi all.

My first question of a series of other questions I have on cider making.

I am a total newbie at making cider, but I do have quite a range of skills in food science and food/beverage production in slightly different categories.

I am currently living over in Thailand as a UK expat and am happily married here.

I am not sure if you are aware, but Thailand has the biggest expat community in the world numbering some 1 million and growing yearly.

In the 5 years I have been here, myself and most fellow expats I have met (including numerous bar owners) are very frustrated that cider here is about as rare as strawberries on the moon.

What is available here is grossly over priced and on a par with cheap champagne prices back in the UK.

A 440 ml can of Thatcher's I have paid £6 for ($10.11)

This is because of the high duty tariff on alcohol imports to protect the domestic production industry, and Thailand not being a country where apples are grown and thus imported at an equally high tariff price.

So cider making here, just isn't happening.

Thailand is a gloriously hot country and cider is the perfect hot weather drink, and I think it is a shame that people have to be very well heeled just to have access to this fundamental pleasure in life.

So myself and two other expats have decided to change all that.

Our aim is to bring home brew cider kits into the Thai market.
We are very much in the research stage at the moment, and we acknowledge that there will be many obstacles to overcome. But I don't see problems, I see challenges. Everything can be overcome.

We have already established that selling as a kit is totally legal here, and is not subject to alcohol duty, as we essentially have no alcohol present in the retail product. So we have a green light to go on the rest of the research.

Now then, as I already explained, we need to be able to provide this at a certain budget level, and apples are just not viable for us.

So my first question is this.

Will it be possible to use freeze dried apple juice powder as the basis for the cider?

All this is, is basically apples that have had their water content removed and then what is left is powdered. It is the normal base ingredient to make apple juice that you find in most supermarkets. A lot of that is imported imported from overseas and then rehydrated and packed in the retail country. Obviously they prefer this method because the shipping is a lot cheaper and the bulk volume considerably reduced.

So.. Is freeze dried apple juice in a rehydrated form going to cut it for making cider?

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Alfaro]

I dont see a problem there, just try it

 

[CanAusBrewer]

Definitely sounds like an interesting idea. Do you reckon there is a market for home brew beer as well in Thailand or is the price of Chang and Singha just too cheap to justify importing malt?

 

[Maylar]

The thing you will need to check carefully is whether there are any preservatives in the apple powder. Additives like potassium sulfate and sodium benzoate that are put into commercial juices will prevent fermentation. That may be your biggest obstacle, finding an organic juice source without yeast killing preservatives.

 

[Peakr8]

Definitely sounds like an interesting idea. Do you reckon there is a market for home brew beer as well in Thailand or is the price of Chang and Singha just too cheap to justify importing malt?

Hi.

Yes it is very interesting and we have had nothing but positive feedback to bringing in a product like this by both expats and many Thai people we have asked.

Thais have a very sweet tooth, far sweeter than western tastes. So also giving them access to a sweeter beverage at a low cost has the ability to actually take a sizeable chunk out of the beer market.

There are a wide variety of Thai brewed beers, I would say are not up to my tastes as many are rice based such as Chang and Singha that you named.

Beer is not worth our while, because it is very cheap here compared with cider. In the shop it is about £1 ($1.65) per pint, and in a bar in my local town it is about £1.50 ($2.30) a pint... So not much room for us, and is dominated by the big boys.

The reason we choose to go down the home brew kit route is because to get a brewer's license, you need to be very highly connected, the big brewers have the monopoly and pay politicians to pretty much make sure they stay at the top.

 

[Peakr8]

The thing you will need to check carefully is whether there are any preservatives in the apple powder. Additives like potassium sulfate and sodium benzoate that are put into commercial juices will prevent fermentation. That may be your biggest obstacle, finding an organic juice source without yeast killing preservatives.

Hi there.

Thanks for your input.

I have approached many exporters from Taiwan and China, and we made sure we asked what exactly are in their products. We insist on 100% freeze dried apple powder only.

I totally get what you are saying about the preservatives, but I am pretty convinced this is put in by the packing company on reconstitution of the product to liquid form.

I actually make my own cheeses and yoghurt here in Thailand. So I am very familiar with fermentation and culturing aspects. It is easy to kill the essential components to achieve the finished product.

That is why I want to be 100% natural with just the essential ingredients.

I have some sample powders already on the way so I can do some testing.

One main worry is the average temperature here in Thailand. In my area, in the peak of summer (March-May) it can reach 45C (113F) and most of the year is over 30C in the day and around 25C at night.

So controlling the fermentation temperature is basically my biggest concern here.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

If frozen apple juice concentrate is available & reasonably priced there, you might be able to omit apple juice powder completely & just instruct the kit buyer to purchase the FAJC instead. I would think FAJC from China would be available & cheap there, since Thailand is so close geographically. The US imports a lot of FAJC from china & it's affordable here. Might be a way to circumvent a possible problem and/or cost. If the FAJC thing works, you might offer both the powdered apple juice & no juice as a cheaper option for the kit buyer. Also, you should check on the legalities of homebrewing there. Might be a problem if you're selling a kit to do something illegal.
Just my 2 cents worth. Regards, GF.

 

[Maylar]

There are also canned juices available, but I'm not sure if shipping to Thailand is practical.

 

[waarhorse777]

This sounds like a wonderful experiment! Please keep us posted on your progress and what you find.

 

[TeeJo]

Pretty sure that liquid apple juice concentrate is also available in 205 liter drums from supplier in South America, in bulk.

I have used a mix of Frozen concentrate and Juice (typically in 4 liter jugs) from the grocery store, for making cider that I thought well enough of, to share with friends.

The liquid concentrate in bulk, may be worth pursuing too.

If the dried apple juice is available, I would definitely try the stuff. You should be able to simply mix to the original Gravity you desire, just as is done with dry malt extract for beer.

May be worth an experiment or two with the use of the preservatives-in juice, as a backsweetening tool. If the preservatives will knock the yeast off...

Best of luck with your venture!

TeeJo

 

[MindenMan]

Have you made any progress in sourcing your apple ingredient? It has been over a month with no updates

 

[MindenMan]

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