Lutra grain to glass

[SRJHops]

My goal is always to make the best beer possible and not rush things. I tend to be skeptical of brewers who say they went grain to glass in a 7 (or less) days, etc. The shortest time I've ever gone (grain to bottle) is 2 weeks, with one week to ferment and one week to clear. Even that was too rushed - the beer would have been better if I let it sit another week or two before bottling.

With that said, I am wondering if Lutra kveik is truly different? I recall in Lars Marius Garshol's book that kveik really is different and doesn't need a lot of time to ferment and finish. It ferments fast and does not need extra time to finish up to avoid off flavors, if I recall from the book.

Is this true? I pitched Lutra on Monday and it seemed to be about done in two days. SG is stable on Day 3 and 4. Maybe I could coax another point out of it, but I think the beer is done. I fermented at 80 and kicked it up to 85 yesterday and then 90 today, to make sure it really is finished.

Should I give it another 10 days, like most of my beers? Or am I safe bottling it up this weekend (Sunday)?

 

[McMullan]

I'd say it's 'done' when expectations have been met. The real question is, what are your expectations? What are you prepared to accept, that is. With pressure capable FVs, spunding valves, good yeast choice and good practices it's no problem to get a beer ready for a glass within about 10 days. You have to wonder about the expectations of traditional 'crikey' brewers apparently knocking out brews at the drop of a hat, within a few days 'back in the day'. I suspect it was about little more than ethanol production, to be honest. This fits historical descriptions of Norwegian society and explains Norway's draconian alcohol laws that exist up to the present day. The expectations of alcoholics might translate into it being done in a few days, I guess.

 

[SRJHops]

Not getting much response to this question, for whatever reason. Perhaps not enough people have used Lutra.

But I've looked around and found some videos of rather hazy lagers that were grain to glass in 4-7 days. All said it was tasty, but they looked more like NEIPAs. I'm not one to obsess about clarity, but my conclusion is that like any yeast, Lutra needs some time to clarify. I'm going to wait at least another week to bottle.

 

[McMullan]

In my honest opinion, yeast generally taste awful enough to distort perception of a well balanced beer, so I'm a bit OCD when it comes to clarity. Most beers need to be 'bright' before being served. With a few tricks - mentioned above - I can get most beers ready within 10 days. 14 at the most. But I don't use 'crikey' strains.

 

[Teufelhunde]

Not getting much response to this question, for whatever reason. Perhaps not enough people have used Lutra.

But I've looked around and found some videos of rather hazy lagers that were grain to glass in 4-7 days. All said it was tasty, but they looked more like NEIPAs. I'm not one to obsess about clarity, but my conclusion is that like any yeast, Lutra needs some time to clarify. I'm going to wait at least another week to bottle.

I have 5 gallons of an IPA done with Lutra in the fermenter as we speak. I pitched at 83F and set my inkbird to maintain 85F in the liquid. It started a 1.056 and 20 hours later was at 1.014 and reached FG in two days. On the third day, I moved it out of the minifridge and to room temperature to sit. Today I took a look at it (day 6) and it was very clear, so I dry hopped it and will bottle on Monday for 9 days boil to bottle. Hopefully, after a couple weeks in the bottle, it will be ready.

YMMV

 

[just john]

When I used it twice it made bad beer really fast that got less bad with time but never good.

A split batch cream ale with 05 the 05 was clear as a bell and delicious and the Lutra was hazy and gross. Both fined with gelatin.

I wish all who use it better luck than I had. Maybe I got a bad batch. I recommend that people do a small batch first before they waste good wort.

 

[easttex]

My goal is always to make the best beer possible and not rush things. I tend to be skeptical of brewers who say they went grain to glass in a 7 (or less) days, etc. The shortest time I've ever gone (grain to bottle) is 2 weeks, with one week to ferment and one week to clear. Even that was too rushed - the beer would have been better if I let it sit another week or two before bottling.

With that said, I am wondering if Lutra kveik is truly different? I recall in Lars Marius Garshol's book that kveik really is different and doesn't need a lot of time to ferment and finish. It ferments fast and does not need extra time to finish up to avoid off flavors, if I recall from the book.

Is this true? I pitched Lutra on Monday and it seemed to be about done in two days. SG is stable on Day 3 and 4. Maybe I could coax another point out of it, but I think the beer is done. I fermented at 80 and kicked it up to 85 yesterday and then 90 today, to make sure it really is finished.

Should I give it another 10 days, like most of my beers? Or am I safe bottling it up this weekend (Sunday)?

If you heat any yeast up and ferment hot enough, you'll "burn it out" rapidly enough to go grain to glass in less than 7 days. You won't be fond of the results however.

Kveik generally was bred over successive generations to be pitched hot and burn through the wort before other bugs had a chance to take over. I've gone grain to glass in seven days with Hothead (Lutra's progenitor) but never Lutra. I brewed one beer with hot fermented kveik and did not care for it. I had to lager it in a keg for a couple weeks to get a "clean" beer.

That said, I've had a lot of success pitching and repitching liquid Lutra and making clean beers with it. Be sure to double the yeast nutrient, oxygenate well, and give it a full ale pitch. At regular room temp (73°-75°F) it's made several clean beers for me.

All I can tell you is try it with something inexpensive like a smash beer and see if you like it. I'd recommend giving it more than seven days to finish up. Taste is kind of subjective to the taster and the prevailing opinion is that you'll like it or you won't. Share your results.

 

[TBA]

I am sitting on a pack of dry Lutra. Been trying to decide what to make with it. Maybe something for Thanksgiving. Can’t be too hoppy as not all relatives like that. So likely a pale ale or blonde.

I see it mentioned a lot about the yeast nutrients. Would adding some old yeast at flame out or with a few minutes left be a good idea? I have many jars of yeast cake and some are getting old 4-6 months.

 

[McMullan]

Kveik generally was bred over successive generations to be pitched hot and burn through the wort before other bugs had a chance to take over.

All yeast burn through wort sugars, provided with the right conditions, therefore reduce the probability of undesirable bugs establishing. That's the ecological/evolutionary significance of ethanol production in yeast. It isn't unique to kveik. Kveik strains appear to be stress tolerant, which most likely has more to do with harsh conditions/management selecting for stress tolerance, likely at the expense of desirable flavour profiles. If a commercial brewery's yeast shifted its behaviour to produce beer like kveik yeast the head brewer would order a fresh culture of the brewery's yeast strain.

 

[SRJHops]

I have 5 gallons of an IPA done with Lutra in the fermenter as we speak. I pitched at 83F and set my inkbird to maintain 85F in the liquid. It started a 1.056 and 20 hours later was at 1.014 and reached FG in two days. On the third day, I moved it out of the minifridge and to room temperature to sit. Today I took a look at it (day 6) and it was very clear, so I dry hopped it and will bottle on Monday for 9 days boil to bottle. Hopefully, after a couple weeks in the bottle, it will be ready.

YMMV

Thanks. This is my first time using Lutra. I made a pseudo-lager, west coast pils with a healthy whirlpool of Idaho-7. I'm on day 6 and the beer is still pretty hazy. (Fermentation was done in 3 days.)

My gut tells me that Lutra can shave 2-3 days off my usual process, which is usually one week to ferment and one week to condition (sometimes 2 weeks to condition) . But it still needs time to flocc out, so trying to go grain to glass in a week would likely result in a fairly hazy beer for a few weeks at least. So I'm planning to go with 2 weeks total in the fermenter. It's a pils, so I at least want to try for some clarity, though as a NEIPA guy I don't care that much about that.

Next question for anyone who has used Lutra: I know it floccs well, so does it need bottling yeast? I saw one video where the guy said to use bottling yeast. Is that really necessary with Lutra?

 

[SRJHops]

I am sitting on a pack of dry Lutra. Been trying to decide what to make with it. Maybe something for Thanksgiving. Can’t be too hoppy as not all relatives like that. So likely a pale ale or blonde.

I see it mentioned a lot about the yeast nutrients. Would adding some old yeast at flame out or with a few minutes left be a good idea? I have many jars of yeast cake and some are getting old 4-6 months.

I know lots of folks use Lutra for NEIPA's, though my bet is it's not great at producing some of the fruit notes from London III or Juice-varients. Still, it's worth giving it a go for a pale I would think -- at the very least, it should let the hops shine.

I made a pseudo-lager, because many people say Lutra finishes pretty clean. I'm actually making a kind of NEIPA-Lager hybrid. Some people might call it a West Coast pils, but I think a better name might be NEIPA-Pils, because I used a ton of hops in the whirlpool and I'll also give it a healthy dry hop. The goal is to have a clean beer where the yeast does not get in the way, allowing the hop flavor to really come through.

I did double my yeast nutrient with Lutra. I have never heard of adding old yeast at flame-out... Is your theory that it has nutrients? I would think it might actually be low in nutrients? Maybe I am wrong. But it does not seem like a great plan, especially since yeast nutrient powder isn't that expensive in the grand scheme.

 

[TBA]

I did double my yeast nutrient with Lutra. I have never heard of adding old yeast at flame-out... Is your theory that it has nutrients? I would think it might actually be low in nutrients? Maybe I am wrong. But it does not seem like a great plan, especially since yeast nutrient powder isn't that expensive in the grand scheme.

I did some more reading. Looks like the idea comes up every couple years. It doesn’t look like it will hurt anything but it doesn’t actually help either.

I used to put yeast nutrients but after running out early Covid I haven’t been doing so. I need to drop by LHBS anyway, I will get some.

 

[aceluby]

I had an Oktoberfest party where the week before I cashed a keg of a previous Lutra brew. I needed a new beer fast and ended up brewing the same Lutra Citra APA to serve to people that have some pretty good national accolades (one national gold for a cider and lots of beer and mead medals over the years). They couldn't believe it was brewed that fast and thought it was a really good beer, even w/out knowing how fast it came together. There were some caveats to this though. It was repitched yeast, which I've found was better than the first gen. It does mute hops a bit, but with how many hops I had in this thing it didn't really matter (in fact, I think it made it more balanced). The Kveik tart is really muted in this recipe.

It's one of my staple recipes at this point and drops crystal clear after the first few pours. I also know there's quite a few people who like it for their darker beers as the tartness of the Kveik doesn't really come through. I did not really like it as a pseudo-lager though. It was "fine", but the twang was prevalent and never really cleared after weeks of conditioning. For those I just warm ferment 34/70 or MJ's Cali Lager to get really clean beers.

 

[SRJHops]

I had an Oktoberfest party where the week before I cashed a keg of a previous Lutra brew. I needed a new beer fast and ended up brewing the same Lutra Citra APA to serve to people that have some pretty good national accolades (one national gold for a cider and lots of beer and mead medals over the years). They couldn't believe it was brewed that fast and thought it was a really good beer, even w/out knowing how fast it came together. There were some caveats to this though. It was repitched yeast, which I've found was better than the first gen. It does mute hops a bit, but with how many hops I had in this thing it didn't really matter (in fact, I think it made it more balanced). The Kveik tart is really muted in this recipe.

It's one of my staple recipes at this point and drops crystal clear after the first few pours. I also know there's quite a few people who like it for their darker beers as the tartness of the Kveik doesn't really come through. I did not really like it as a pseudo-lager though. It was "fine", but the twang was prevalent and never really cleared after weeks of conditioning. For those I just warm ferment 34/70 or MJ's Cali Lager to get really clean beers.

Thanks. My pseudo-lager is still conditioning, but it sure looks hazy so far. Probably the 4 ounces of Idaho 7 in the whirlpool! I assume it will eventually clear, like your Citra APA. But either way, my main goal is to let the hops shine, free from esters from regular ale yeast. If I was sure it would NOT clear, I might consider sneaking it in as a NEIPA for an upcoming competition. I am going to dry hop it with 2 ounces of Citra Cryo.

 

[Gusso]

Lutra is fantastic in my Baltic Porter! I've made it a few times now.

 

[ArizonaGoalie]

I use Lutra in most of my hazy IPAs and I go grain to glass in 7 days. I also only do a half hour boil and no boil hops, whirlpool and dry hop only (and a bit in the keg). This yeast is a beast. My hazy IPAs usually have an OG of 1.062 and finish around 1.008 by day 5. That's when I keg it.

I've been doing the 7 day hazy for a while now, brewed at least 7-8x, always turns out great. Looks like this:

Friday: Brew day
Saturday: Fermenting
Sunday: Dry hop
Mon-Wed: Fermenting still
Wed night: Keg and add a little hop goodness (double checking gravity)
Thursday: Let keg chill (and dry hop do its thing)
Friday: Carbonate with a stone, ready to drink by the afternoon

I've also done the 7 day hazy brew with S-04. Turns out pretty good, but the Lutra works better.