Lunchbox's HERMS build

[lunchbox]

I recently sold all of my keggles and other equipment so that I could start over and build a nice HERMS setup. I just bought my SS Kettles, 2 pumps, and IC, plate chiller, and three burners. I'm going to build my brew stand from wood, closing it all up with cabinet doors and put a nice stain on it.

I'm getting ready to start buying the PID and temp probes and all of the other stuff I need, but I have a few questions first.

If the PID is connected to the temp probe, plus the power from the control panel, how does it control when the wort stops circulating? I assume the pump has to be connected to the PID somehow, but if it is, how can I use the pump w/o the PID?

Also, it sounds like the RTD style temp probes are the way to go. Thoughts on that?

 

[Huaco]

I recently sold all of my keggles and other equipment so that I could start over and build a nice HERMS setup. I just bought my SS Kettles, 2 pumps, and IC, plate chiller, and three burners. I'm going to build my brew stand from wood, closing it all up with cabinet doors and put a nice stain on it.

I'm getting ready to start buying the PID and temp probes and all of the other stuff I need, but I have a few questions first.

If the PID is connected to the temp probe, plus the power from the control panel, how does it control when the wort stops circulating? I assume the pump has to be connected to the PID somehow, but if it is, how can I use the pump w/o the PID?

Also, it sounds like the RTD style temp probes are the way to go. Thoughts on that?

-Why do you need 3 burners if you are building a HERMS? Should only need 2.

-Dont connect the pump to the PID. That will just require yet ANOTHER Solid State Relay... Just control the pumps with a switch on your control panel.

Yes... RTD are more accurate over time.

Sounds to me like you could REALLY stand to read through Kal's site. www.theelectricbrewery.com Even if you don't want to go all-electric, you will gain VAST amounts of knowledge from the other topics he covers in the site. I just got finished building the control panel for a 50Amp Back to Back system...

 

[iijakii]

Can you use a PID to control a pump outlet? I'd wager you'd need BCS for that.

 

[Huaco]

Can you use a PID to control a pump outlet? I'd wager you'd need BCS for that.

It technically could be done, but it would only run when your element is on. You could just wire them together but run the "pump" wires to a SSR. I would NOT want to be limited on my pumps by this, plus it adds wear to the pumps, cutting on and off all the time.

 

[crane]

I don't think you would want to run a pump on a PID. Im not sure if the pump would work correctly if you turn it on/off every second. Normally the recirculation pump runs throughout the entire mash and the PID controls an electric heating element to regulate the temperature. I'm not sure how you would use a PID in a setup with 3 burners. Are you intending on using the PID to control a gas valve that will adjust the size of the flame coming out of the burner. I have seen a few threads on people automating gas burners. I think you need to do some more research on here to get a better understanding of how your rig will be setup and what will be automated.

And As Huaco pointed out you only need 2 burners if you are going with HERMs.

 

[lunchbox]

I thought the rims used an electric heating element, and the herms used the IC to regulate the temp as it passes through the HLT.

 

[Huaco]

You can direct fire a rims tube... if that is what you WANT to do.
A HERMS coil sits in the HLT and you pump the sweet wort through the coil and back into the MLT. eventually, whatever temp the HLT is at, the MLT will follow. A little slower for step mashing but it still works great none-the-less...

 

[lunchbox]

So you keep the HLT at the temp that you want the Mash at? I was under the impression that you had the HLT a little higher so it "exchanges" faster. But, if you maintain the same temperature in the HLT, you don't have to stop the pump when the mash has reached the desired temp. So how do you control the temp of the HLT, using gas, so that you don't have to stop the pump?

 

[Huaco]

I have an electric system based on Kal's ElectricBrewery. Mash temp exiting the 50' HERMS coil is ALWAYS at HLT temps...

 

[lunchbox]

As much as I would love to do all electric, I can't go that route right now. So I'm stuck with gas.

I have three burners because the plan was this...

Start brewday by heating strike water in mash tun and sparge water in HLT.

Dough-in once mash tun is at desired temp. Recirculate in HLT (which I thought would be around my sparge temp, but I guess that is too high for recirculation if the wort comes out at the same temp as the HLT). Once mashing is done, transfer to boil kettle to boil.

 

[crane]

From what I have read you will end up with the water in the HLT being the same as the mash temp or slightly higher. For an electric setup you would have the PID monitor the mash temp not the HLT temp and it would control a heating element in the HLT. Using gas you will need the PID to control a valve that regulates the amount of gas going to the burner. This has been done before and there are build threads on here documenting what valves can be used, how to hook em up, etc.

 

[lunchbox]

Got it. I didn't know it was supposed to control the gas. I guess that makes sense is you need to control the temperature.

 

[Huaco]

Got it. I didn't know it was supposed to control the gas. I guess that makes sense is you need to control the temperature.

yeah, the PID will cycle a gas valve that has a standing pilot light. as long as the pilot is burning it will just ignite the burner and extinguish it as needed. Once you get close to the target temp, the PID will fire the burners for only a short period of time. really, the burner may only be on for a few seconds. It will teach itself how your system heats water. My electric heating elements will just flicker on and off once it is at temp.

 

[TwoBrothersBrewing]

hello
So I set up a herms hybrid gas/electric with three burners and a 1500w heating element in the HLT. just have the gas to get strike water to temp faster on both the MLT and the HLT. Then i let the PID with a SSR take over and lock in the temp of the sweet wort. I have the temp probe on the exit of my heat exchange coil before the wort goes back into the MLT, also the pump recirculates the whole time im mashing
Cheers
Mark