Looking to buy Hybrid SUV

[Heavenly]

Wondering what your experiences have been. Good models? What isn't going to break the bank. Looking new or slightly used (less than 40k). I saw the Ford Explorer is having one in 2020. Can't really find some price friendly models.

 

[kh54s10]

I had thought about a hybrid for a while, and thankfully cannot afford one.

I thought it would be good for the environment and believe they will - someday -. They are almost always more expensive than gas vehicles. They need to be charged and for most of us that means electricity coming from an oil, coal or gas power-plant. So it isn't doing as much for the environment as I once thought. Only the best of them get truly great gas mileage. The few all electric models are interesting. Especially since their range has been increased. For trips it is still a problem getting recharged.

Then there is the question of the batteries. I don't think they have come up with a truly environmental friendly way to recycle, reuse or dispose of the spent batteries. I may be wrong.

And from what I have read they are very expensive to replace.

I am not saying it is a bad idea, I am not saying that hybrid cars are bad. I am saying that while the technology has greatly improved hybrid cars, and something will eventually replace gas vehicles, the benefit is not as great as we are often led to believe.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

@kh54s10 Most hybrids don't require charging. Those are only the plug-in hybrid electric vehicles, and I'm not actually aware of any SUV versions of those [but I could be wrong].

IMHO most hybrids today, ESPECIALLY hybrid SUVs, aren't about being environmentally friendly. They're about trying to maintain gas engine performance levels using less gas.

For example, the Toyota Highlander comes in both gasoline and hybrid configurations:

Gas:
185-hp inline 4-cylinder
295-hp V6

Hybrid:
3.5L V6 + electric motor putting out 306 hp

IMHO if you want low cost, just get the Highlander with a 4cyl. Starting price of the LE 4cyl is $6K less expensive than the starting price of the lowest-trim Hybrid. That'll largely offset many of the gas saving features in the hybrid.

Hybrids mostly exist to get you to buy an expensive, higher-performance vehicle, but to feel good about the purchase. If you are trying to save money, however, most hybrids aren't the best for that. It's often just better to get a lower-trim version with a lesser-performance engine.

 

[Heavenly]

Yeah, it's not the saving of money on gas for me. It's getting an SUV that is set for the future environmentally. Guess they're not quite there yet? I thought there were 2020 government standards that needed to be met.

 

[kh54s10]

@kh54s10 Most hybrids don't require charging. Those are only the plug-in hybrid electric vehicles, and I'm not actually aware of any SUV versions of those [but I could be wrong].

IMHO most hybrids today, ESPECIALLY hybrid SUVs, aren't about being environmentally friendly. They're about trying to maintain gas engine performance levels using less gas.

For example, the Toyota Highlander comes in both gasoline and hybrid configurations:

Gas:
185-hp inline 4-cylinder
295-hp V6

Hybrid:
3.5L V6 + electric motor putting out 306 hp

IMHO if you want low cost, just get the Highlander with a 4cyl. Starting price of the LE 4cyl is $6K less expensive than the starting price of the lowest-trim Hybrid. That'll largely offset many of the gas saving features in the hybrid.

Hybrids mostly exist to get you to buy an expensive, higher-performance vehicle, but to feel good about the purchase. If you are trying to save money, however, most hybrids aren't the best for that. It's often just better to get a lower-trim version with a lesser-performance engine.

You are right that most hybrids do not require charging, but more and more have that option. And all the electric only cars and SUVs (if there are any of those) require charging.

I haven't kept up with the performance, but initially the hybrids had good acceleration then lacked power at cruise.

Most people looking at hybrids ARE about being environmentally friendly.. Pointing out while emissions from the vehicle are less - there are other environmental concerns.

And cost, while it has come down a lot, is still quite a bit higher than gas powered vehicles.

 

[murphyslaw]

I looked into a little bit. I researched whether they are actually better for the environment overall, concerned about the things @kh54s10 mentioned, and it seemed to be very clearly yes.

Anyway, I specifically wanted a plug-in hybrid (PHEV) because I wanted my normal driving to be zero emissions. At this point, it seemed three are only smaller cross-over style SUVs that fit the bill. Mitsubishi Outlander is one. I think there's a Kia and a Hyundai also. I think some of the more luxury focused brands might have options, also.

For me, I wanted something I could load in 2 kids, a dog, and a week's worth of vacation gear. I don't think we're quite there yet.

 

[murphyslaw]

I actually tried to convince my wife to buy the Pacifica PHEV, so we could use that as the long hauler. She's says she's not ready for a minivan, though.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

You are right that most hybrids do not require charging, but more and more have that option. And all the electric only cars and SUVs (if there are any of those) require charging.

I haven't kept up with the performance, but initially the hybrids had good acceleration then lacked power at cruise.

Most people looking at hybrids ARE about being environmentally friendly.. Pointing out while emissions from the vehicle are less - there are other environmental concerns.

And cost, while it has come down a lot, is still quite a bit higher than gas powered vehicles.

Again, I think you're conflating hybrid as a term with some of the plug-in hybrid and the battery vehicles. Most things that fall into the "hybrid" category don't have a plug. They can't be charged. In that sense a "hybrid" uses some of the latent automotive functions (engine while not under power, and regenerative braking) to charge batteries that then drive some electric motors during normal use.

My point was that this is all great. If you want a 300hp SUV, a hybrid 300hp SUV is probably better for the environment than a non-hybrid 300hp SUV. But it's more expensive, and it may not be more environmentally friendly than a less tricked-out 180hp SUV with less motor.

I looked into a little bit. I researched whether they are actually better for the environment overall, concerned about the things @kh54s10 mentioned, and it seemed to be very clearly yes.

Anyway, I specifically wanted a plug-in hybrid (PHEV) because I wanted my normal driving to be zero emissions. At this point, it seemed three are only smaller cross-over style SUVs that fit the bill. Mitsubishi Outlander is one. I think there's a Kia and a Hyundai also. I think some of the more luxury focused brands might have options, also.

For me, I wanted something I could load in 2 kids, a dog, and a week's worth of vacation gear. I don't think we're quite there yet.

What about if you include tailgate storage or a roof rack? It sounds like your day-to-day doesn't require that much space, but you're looking at buying for the camping trips. A roof rack or something similar might fit the bill, and get you into that PHEV SUV world where your typical driving can remain all electric.

(Although @kh54s10 does have a point--unless you know your electricity is zero emission, your car isn't zero emission.)

 

[Rodent]

@kh54s10 Most hybrids don't require charging. Those are only the plug-in hybrid electric vehicles, and I'm not actually aware of any SUV versions of those [but I could be wrong].

Check out the Hyundai Kona Elec SUV with a 150kW (201 HP) motor and 258mi range. Too bad there's only a few places where one of these can be purchased here in the US. Priced from $36,950 to $44,900 MSRP, these definitely give a bottom tier Tesla a run for the money.

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/kona-electric/index.aspx

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/kona-electric/comparison.aspx

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/kona-electric/index.aspx

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/kona-electric/comparison.aspx

 

[kh54s10]

Check out the Hyundai Kona Elec SUV with a 150kW (201 HP) motor and 258mi range. Too bad there's only a few places where one of these can be purchased here in the US. Priced from $36,950 to $44,900 MSRP, these definitely give a bottom tier Tesla a run for the money.

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/kona-electric/index.aspx

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/kona-electric/comparison.aspx

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/kona-electric/index.aspx

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/kona-electric/comparison.aspx

Kona Electric = $36,950 Gas = $19,100 For most the difference makes the electric cost prohibitive. And as I said earlier if your local powerplant is coal, oil, natural gas your electric is not zero emission. And there is the question of recycling the batteries. Not to mention the manufacturing, assembly and transportation of that vehicle. I wonder how many years it takes to pay off the difference with the lower emissions?

 

[Rodent]

Kona Electric = $36,950 Gas = $19,100 For most the difference makes the electric cost prohibitive. And as I said earlier if your local powerplant is coal, oil, natural gas your electric is not zero emission. And there is the question of recycling the batteries. Not to mention the manufacturing, assembly and transportation of that vehicle. I wonder how many years it takes to pay off the difference with the lower emissions?

Where I live, a solid majority of the elec supply is zero emission hydroelectric

Here's a cost breakdown for both the Hyundai Kona EV and Kia Soul EV (2020) based on the current energy prices here in Seattle based on https://www.befrugal.com/tools/electric-car-calculator/

and an estimated monthly fuel savings of $283 vs my Dakota 4x4 pickup at it's current 16mpg when carrying a cab of three people.

 

[CodeSection]

^^^^Seattle, figures....

When I went to the site and entered two different vehicles, it showed the breakeven point was over 15 years. Yes, it depends upon the vehicle, your location, your driving distances, and your lifestyle....

@kh54s10 makes valid points.

 

[murphyslaw]

I understand "zero emissions " to usually refer to tailpipe emissions. I think everyone understands that the energy has to come from somewhere (unless you have solar panels, then you're pretty close to true zero emissions). I'm no expert, but from what I've read, even when you consider the energy source, battery production/disposal, etc., the EVs are better for the environment. ( https://www.wired.com/story/even-more-evidence-that-electric-cars-could-save-the-planet/). Some places more so than others, of course, depending on energy source. But the trend of utilities is towards cleaner engery, so the balance will continue to shift further and further in favor towards electric.


The cost is certainly still high, though. $283/mo in gas savings is hard for me to wrap my head around. I'm closer to $100/mo in gas for my escape. But either way, I think we're a ways away from a lower middle class family being able to afford one. Even if it's more economical in the long run, the upfront costs can be prohibitive. Most people buying EVs are doing it for the environment. Once it becomes cheaper than gas, we should see mass adoption.

PHEVs seem the most practical to me right now. It would be hard to jump to a car with limited range or to have to plan put your stops on a long trip.

 

[kh54s10]

^^^^Seattle, figures....

When I went to the site and entered two different vehicles, it showed the breakeven point was over 15 years. Yes, it depends upon the vehicle, your location, your driving distances, and your lifestyle....

@kh54s10 makes valid points.

Considering that the average time a person keeps a vehicle is 6 years, they never break even on one vehicle.

 

[CodeSection]

Considering that the average time a person keeps a vehicle is 6 years, they never break even on one vehicle.

I realize we are the exception rather than the norm as we generally keep our vehicles 13 - 16 years and/or roughly 165k - 200k mileage. Our daughter still is driving daily the 2004 Sequoia we bought her for her 16th birthday. My wife is still driving her 2006 Xterra. Though she will be getting a 2020 4Runner soon and the Xterra will be used at a second home.

I cannot justify any hybrid at this time...

 

[NGD]

I think you guys are getting off track a bit. Op requested a suggestion for a hybrid SUV, not full electric. Currently most of my county is without power as is several areas in Northern California due to “wildfire dangers”.

We recently purchased a Prius Prime Plug-in over full electric specifically due power outages we experience several times a year and projected outages in California. Nothing like telling the boss you can’t make it in b/c your car battery is dead.

 

[kh54s10]

I think you guys are getting off track a bit. Op requested a suggestion for a hybrid SUV, not full electric. Currently most of my county is without power as is several areas in Northern California due to “wildfire dangers”.

We recently purchased a Prius Prime Plug-in over full electric specifically due power outages we experience several times a year and projected outages in California. Nothing like telling the boss you can’t make it in b/c your car battery is dead.

I started it by including plug in hybrids in my advice to think about why you want a hybrid and that they are not as economically friendly overall as many are led to believe. Most often not taken into account is what goes into building the cars in the first place. Then there is the question of how the batteries will be dealt with when they no longer hold a charge. I believe that they are mostly not able to be recycled and will be a disposal problem due to the toxic materials in them.

Gas price savings is one thing that they do have going for them.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I started it by including plug in hybrids in my advice to think about why you want a hybrid and that they are not as economically friendly overall as many are led to believe. Most often not taken into account is what goes into building the cars in the first place. Then there is the question of how the batteries will be dealt with when they no longer hold a charge. I believe that they are mostly not able to be recycled and will be a disposal problem due to the toxic materials in them.

Gas price savings is one thing that they do have going for them.

Plug in hybrids usually have very small batteries, because they're only using battery power for local daily drive, and can rely on gas for anything longer. And non-plugin hybrids have even smaller batteries typically, as they're not designed to operate "battery only" at any given time, it's just electric motor assist.

That's not like the battery electrics like a Tesla, which needs a significantly large battery pack because the battery is the ONLY energy source.

 

[kh54s10]

Plug in hybrids usually have very small batteries, because they're only using battery power for local daily drive, and can rely on gas for anything longer. And non-plugin hybrids have even smaller batteries typically, as they're not designed to operate "battery only" at any given time, it's just electric motor assist.

That's not like the battery electrics like a Tesla, which needs a significantly large battery pack because the battery is the ONLY energy source.

Unless I am mistaken they all have Lithium Ion batteries, of some size. I have read (of course not everything printed is true) that they are difficult to recycle or maybe even if you can even recycle any of them, Also that the wastes are toxic and disposal is going to be a big problem.