looking for ways to minimize oxidation when bottling

[harebearva]

TO start, I do not keg and I am not able to store a large number of bottles in the fridge all due to space constraints. Kinda sucks but that's the boat I'm in. I really like to brew for competitions so I'm looking for ways to minimize O2 exposure and maximize my freshness and flavor 'window of opportunity' for my bottled beers.

Currently I transfer from primary to a bottling bucket and batch prime then bottle using a bottling wand. I use O2 caps and store @ room temp. With this setup, when My beer hits it's peak flavor, I have about a month before I start to notice staling and oxidation issues. For now, I've been gauging my timing for competitions to try to hit that peak. Sometimes my schedule doesn't permit this. It would be nice if my peak lasted longer!

As I can't keg or cold store large amounts, I try to Chill the 2-3 competition beers once they hit their peak if it's going to be several weeks before I ship.

The other option I've been looking into is a closed loop racking setup using 2 better bottles. I would purge the one bottle with CO2 and rack my beer to that for bottling. They show the setup on the better bottle web site. Maybe a combination of both would work best.

I'm wondering if this will be a significant benefit in extended my flavor peak or if I'm splitting hairs. Anyone's experience or suggestions in this arena are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Hare

 

[Pie_Man]

Do you notice the oxidation/staling occuring at the same rate for all styles?

In my experience, oxidation usually takes longer to occur, but it is somewhat dependent on style, hoppy beers can lose their hoppiness fairly quickly with oxidation.

Cold storage is really great for beer. If you can, you may want to look into getting a mini fridge for beer storage, or to make a kegerator. I think that would help you the most. The mini fridge does not take up too much room, but I realize there are reasons that may prevent you from doing this.

Transferring the beer with positive pressure from a CO2 tank is also a good idea. Perhaps your current siphoning/transferring method introduces excessive oxygen. Do you notice a lot of bubbling in the lines, or anything?

 

[broadbill]

It is interesting you are having oxidation issues after a month in the bottle; that is definitely not the norm. Most people enjoy their beer for many months and never have this problem.

My first suggestion would be to identify/troubleshoot/correct this problem. As I said, this is a fairly significant issue if it is happening that quickly.

As an aside, I am under the impression that most serious competition brewers will brew their comp beers so that they hit their peak right at competition time. So that may be something you may consider doing.

 

[kh54s10]

I have to say I am not good at detecting oxidation, or other off flavors, but I bottled for a couple of years until I got my kegging equipment. I kept beers for many months and have one now that I brewed in 2011. (a winter warmer ale). I had a few that passed peak flavor before I finished them but I would not have attributed the loss of flavor to oxidation .

I bottle with the same method. Bottling bucket with a wand attached to the spigot.

All my beers were stored at room temperature in my basement which stays relatively warm year round. Mid sixties in the winter and low to mid seventies in the summer. Most of my beers had 2-3 weeks of bottle conditioning before I opened the first one. Many had six months to a year before I finished them. All of them tasted very good till the end.

I used both standard and o2 caps and didn't really notice any difference.

So I am wondering if your problems stem from some other area rather than oxidation.

Some form of sealed system could be telling. If you still have problems it would eliminate oxidation as the source of the loss of flavor.

 

[Pie_Man]

Also, can you describe the flavor that you are tasting which makes you think it is oxidation?

Mild infections, or chlorophenols can cause off flavors in beer that may be confused with oxidation.

 

[Chadwick]

This seems unusual to me. I bottle using only one of those nifty little bottling wands with the button on the bottom to stop the flow. I do use oxygen absorbing caps as well. My IPA's has always held up over a reasonable length of time in the bottle. My barleywines have aged beyond a year without any noticeable loss of quality or flavor.

I have noticed the floral aspect of the hops to start to fade after about 4 months, but I feel this is normal. The nose is still there and so is the IBU's. I've tasted staled beer before, so I know what it is. When I first returned to home brewing I bottled my first batch in a way that begged for oxidation. And oxidation I received. Since that batch I've been more careful and have never had a problem again.

Liquids store more oxygen when they are colder. Are you bottling the beer while its really cold?

 

[harebearva]

The beer is still typically OK at 3 weeks post bottling but a little green. It really hits it's stride at the 6-8 weeks mark post carbonation. Then at that 8 weeks post bottling point, it begins a slow downward trend in flavor (definitely style dependent). It's at that point that I feel the flavors begin to deteriorate, albeit slowly. Basically, the bright clean malt profile begins to fade and the flavors become bit muted. All in all it is more like the 3 month period where it's definitely noticeable. The beer is still good and I never dump, but it's just not as good as it was when it hit that peak. IT tastes great but loses it's complexity. I may be drinking and thinking like a judge which may be where some of my problem lies, me being over critical. I don't feel like it's a contamination issue, I almost never get gushers or really odd flavors. I think I've narrowed it down to either storage, or siphoning and bottling. I also have no realistic idea of what to expect. I've been brewing for 2 years now and most recently took a silver in a competition with my brown ale, but I've never sampled anyone else's homebrew so I may be exactly where I'm supposed to be and just not know it. I lead a very sheltered life!

 

[Yooper]

The beer is still typically OK at 3 weeks post bottling but a little green. It really hits it's stride at the 6-8 weeks mark post carbonation. Then at that 8 weeks post bottling point, it begins a slow downward trend in flavor (definitely style dependent). It's at that point that I feel the flavors begin to deteriorate, albeit slowly. Basically, the bright clean malt profile begins to fade and the flavors become bit muted. All in all it is more like the 3 month period where it's definitely noticeable. The beer is still good and I never dump, but it's just not as good as it was when it hit that peak. IT tastes great but loses it's complexity. I may be drinking and thinking like a judge which may be where some of my problem lies, me being over critical. I don't feel like it's a contamination issue, I almost never get gushers or really odd flavors. I think I've narrowed it down to either storage, or siphoning and bottling. I also have no realistic idea of what to expect. I've been brewing for 2 years now and most recently took a silver in a competition with my brown ale, but I've never sampled anyone else's homebrew so I may be exactly where I'm supposed to be and just not know it. I lead a very sheltered life!

That is very typical, and not at all surprising. Most beers in competition have oxidation as the most common flaw. It can be a tiny bit at first, with hints of "sherry" flavor, but it is very common.

Some beers, like barley wine, have oxidation as part of its flavor profile. Oxidation happens, and with age it gets a bit more noticeable and with much more age it gets quite noticeable. I would say that if the majority of your ales are peaking at about 6-8 weeks, that is similar to commercial beers as well as with homebrews.

 

[pumpkinman2012]

I use a vacuum pump to rack and bottle, I use the All in One Wine Pump, this is a closed system that allows you to rack, filter and bottle with little to no oxygen contact, not to mention that it is very fast and efficient! I don't lift heavy carboys anymore, and i can bottle 2 cases of 12 oz bottles in 10-15 mins. I've been using the All in One for a few years now for both wine making and making beer, it makes the process much easier!

www.allinonewinepump.com

 

[Cyclman]

Filtering might help?

 

[harebearva]

I'm trying to look at every possible angle I can to improve. I've been quite intrigued with the better bottle closed loop siphon setup. It would be expensive, probably in the $120 neighborhood, but it's supposed to reduce the O2 exposure to just the portion of bottling where you are filling and capping. For it to be truly effective, I would have to mix my priming sugar, add it to the bottling vessel and then purge the with CO2. Their other option is a minimized O2 version without purging wi CO2. I'm still wondering if the difference in quality would be a large enough benefit to substantiate the cost.

The filtering idea did cross my mind, I'll have to read up on that process as we'll.

 

[Yooper]

I'm trying to look at every possible angle I can to improve. I've been quite intrigued with the better bottle closed loop siphon setup. It would be expensive, probably in the $120 neighborhood, but it's supposed to reduce the O2 exposure to just the portion of bottling where you are filling and capping. For it to be truly effective, I would have to mix my priming sugar, add it to the bottling vessel and then purge the with CO2. Their other option is a minimized O2 version without purging wi CO2. I'm still wondering if the difference in quality would be a large enough benefit to substantiate the cost.

The filtering idea did cross my mind, I'll have to read up on that process as we'll.

While I think that doing everything possible to minimize oxygen pick up should be done, I think that your beer is really doing just fine. I read your post very carefully, and you seem to be on par with commercial beers for the timing of flavor loss and for peak flavor of your ales.

It's true that many people don't pick up oxidation on their aged beers, but in competition it is the most common flaw and many brewers don't pick up on it. I have picked up oxidation in quality (but older) commercial craft beers as well. Beer has a life span, and yours does seem realistic.

 

[harebearva]

While I think that doing everything possible to minimize oxygen pick up should be done, I think that your beer is really doing just fine. I read your post very carefully, and you seem to be on par with commercial beers for the timing of flavor loss and for peak flavor of your ales.

It's true that many people don't pick up oxidation on their aged beers, but in competition it is the most common flaw and many brewers don't pick up on it. I have picked up oxidation in quality (but older) commercial craft beers as well. Beer has a life span, and yours does seem realistic.

Thanks for your help! I'd just assume NOT have to spend that much on what are essentially kicked up carboys. I'm thinking my best bet may be making extensive notes on my brews in regard to peak flavor and timeframes. Thanks again for all the help!