Long time all grain brewer going back to extract and I'm glad I did.

[Jayjay1976]

Add a "Seal-a-Meal" machine and bags to the $$$.
But we are high-jacking the thread a bit, maybe,
Sorry OP.
Cheers,
Joel B.

Beyond suction sealed bags try a vac chamber, it evacuates all the gases before sealing. Avid Armor makes a nice one, mine pulls 30" mercury.

 

[Bilsch]

Curious what the LODO crowd has to say on DME @Bilsch , since it must surely be fully oxidized.... I've had lots of really good beers brewed with DME, not sure they all lacked that "thing"... Most were pretty damned tasty.

C'mon man, I get in enough trouble around here on my own. I don't need encouragement.

 

[kartracer2]

Beyond suction sealed bags try a vac chamber, it evacuates all the gases before sealing. Avid Armor makes a nice one, mine pulls 30" mercury.

Yea, I saw that thread. Looks like a cool machine. Kinda industrial grade cool. Back when I worked maintenance at a packing plant, the QC lab had a couple of machines like that, used for shelf life studies and the like.
Cheers,
Joel B.

 

[Bobby_M]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/aha-homebrewer-of-the-year.695096/
eta: In other forums, there is a "conventional wisdom" that one can brew hop-forward or yeast-forward beers with extract (but not malt forward). The 2021 award winning beer appears to challenge that "conventional wisdom". Maybe fresh DME/LME is just another ingredient and the secret to brewing great beer is process (rather than ingredients).

There will always be outliers, AKA even a broken clock is correct twice a day. I'm not saying you can't brew an award winning amazing beer with extract. You just probably won't. Scratch that. I'm just projecting. "I" won't (probably can't) make award winning beer with extract.

 

[Jayjay1976]

C'mon man, I get in enough trouble around here on my own. I don't need encouragement.

You're the lone voice of reason on LoDO, much respect brother.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I only brewed extracts for my first 5 batches

"I" won't (probably can't) make award winning beer with extract.

No worries. It's being done by others who use the ingredient.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Yes, read the instructions first. I have been noticing more recipes going with the late addition of some of the extract in the partial boils. I shoot for 50% +/- preboil, remainder after flame out, that's with a 3g. boil to start on a 5g batch. It just depends on keeping it simple with numbers. One of the reasons I use BeerSmith is to tailor recipes to that end.

Recipe software is a good way to double check the changes.

My guess is though, if you do all the right things like you do with AG brewing you will come up with a very drinkable extract beer.

In this topic, the stories from people actively brewing with extract support your observation.

Over the time, ingredients (DME, dry yeast) have improved. And they will continue to improve.

Processes (use low mineral water, make a slurry to prevent scorching, ...) also improve. And they will continue to improve.

 

[soccerdad]

I still do 2 or 3 extract batches every year. And I like them. A LOT. There are some styles that despite my best efforts, I have not matched the quality of those extract beers. Maybe my efforts with those styles has been half assed. I need to research that.
I usually do those beers on a day when time is critical. Most extract boils can be done in 30 minutes or less, so the overall brew day is much shorter.

 

[RufusBrewer]

I only brewed extracts for my first 5 batches and switched to all grain for the next 16 years. I contemplated the fact that I didn't care for the quality of extract beers primarily because the majority of people who brew extract are beginners. That's a true generalization so if you've been brewing extracts for years don't get your panties in a wad. Anyway, since most extract brewers are beginners, it follows that there are mistakes being made across all aspects of production all the way through packaging. I told myself that for a while.

If it's true that extract brewing can match the quality of all grain, someone who has mastered the end to end process, including cold side controls, pitch rates and oxygen avoidance should be able to crank out amazing extract beers. I just don't see it. I've brewed demo batches over the years for beginner brewing classes and the beers were pretty blah. Even when I've avoided using LME in favor of DME for its shelf stability it all had some level of that homebrew flavor.

I know people like it just fine and that's great but it's not for me. I do accept that for many people if extract couldn't be the simpler entrance into the hobby, they would likely not get involved at all. For that reason alone, it's a worthy process.

I think I would rather drink a properly made extract homebrew than a flawed all grain homebrew.

Extract lets you pass the chore of the most difficult and time consuming step of brewing over to an professional and an expert, while the steps you are less likely to screw up under your purview. Plus you can save some time.

Either way you get to call it homebrew.

 

[kartracer2]

Recipe software is a good way to double check the changes.


In this topic, the stories from people actively brewing with extract support your observation.

^^^ I am this person. I have said this before, I am the only judge that matters. I don't make my beer for any body else's approval.

Over the time, ingredients (DME, dry yeast) have improved. And they will continue to improve.

^^^Back when I first started, I think there were 4 different extracts, 1) dark, 2) not so dark, 3)a little lighter than not so dark and 4) a little lighter than not so dark with wheat. (LOL). +1 on the dry yeast.

Processes (use low mineral water, make a slurry to prevent scorching, ...) also improve. And they will continue to improve.

Cheers,
Joel B.

 

[faithie999]

https://www.morebeer.com/products/a...5AuyBClPUuF1okOp35z6-EsOhfI0vRF0aAoyNEALw_wcB

50lb sack of dry only ~$180...hmmmm.... even easier then opening and dumping 20 64oz containers of apple juice. and about the same price!

great fermentations' price is $157. as with morebeer, shipping isn't free for heavy items.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

I have a few extract recipes that are in my rotation. I've tried to duplicate with all grain, but just missed the mark. They're great for a short brew day too. Start to finish in an hour.

I entered one into a competition once. It did very well. One of the judge's notes went on about my mash times and temperatures and how long I should sparge for - it was laughable. I think the judge was hitting the judging before the judging began.

 

[JimRausch]

I mostly do AG batches from recipes that I have designed. But there are some recipes that just seem to come out better as an extract. I'm thinking of the Northern Brewer Caribou Slobber kit particularly.

 

[davidabcd]

As soon as more than half of a test group of average people are able to differentiate between just Coke and Pepsi* when drinking from unmarked cups, I'll consider a discussion of which brewing method is actually better.
If someone is not given cues (style, color, blurb of what they're supposed to taste), beer would be mighty hard to tell one from another within a style, much less how it was made.

*Fun to check out

 

[kartracer2]

I mostly do AG batches from recipes that I have designed. But there are some recipes that just seem to come out better as an extract. I'm thinking of the Northern Brewer Caribou Slobber kit particularly.

Thanks for that input. I have been wanting to try that one.
As just a side question. Any idea why that beer is better for you as an extract version than using the AG method? (thinking about the question, it's a dumb one. you would probably make the change if you knew , right? LOL)
Cheers,
Joel B.

 

[kartracer2]

Just to keep the water muddy:
In competitions you create a beer to a style and then it's judged to that style. Could it be that maybe it's harder to make an extract beer to that exact style? Possibly, could the idea of extract beer being thought of "inferior" is because not meeting style yet could still be a very good beer ? Color is one thing that's really hard to get right with extract yet the first thing judged.
I'll try to explain it this way.
I make what I call a "frankndunkelweizen". It will not fit into any style guidelines for any number of reasons. I think it's a good beer. It will not win any awards out side of my house but it's "gold" to me.
That may not make any sense, I seldom do, just spitballing I guess.
Cheers,
Joel B.

 

[Jayjay1976]

As soon as more than half of a test group of average people are able differentiate between just Coke and Pepsi* when drinking from unmarked cups, I'll consider a discussion of which brewing method is actually better.
If someone is not given cues (style, color, blurb of what they're supposed to taste), beer would be mighty hard to tell one from another within a style, much less how it was made.

*Fun to check out

Kenner trinken RC cola.

 

[Carolina_Matt]

When I switched from extract to BIAB, I noticed an immediate improvement in my beer. I'm definitely glad I switched. But when Northern has their extract sales, I've been tempted to buy a 3-pack of the Dead Ringer IPA for ~$23/kit. I typically get my grains and water ready the night before so I can start my mash as soon as I wake up. It would be nice to have extract kits on hand if I want a shorter, impromptu brew-day.

 

[Bobby_M]

I think I would rather drink a properly made extract homebrew than a flawed all grain homebrew.

This goes without saying but its a false dichotomy. Is that the only choice? How about a properly made all grain brew? My point is that if we're already brewing "properly" then all grain gives you more control of the sugar profile as well as opens up way more usable ingredients.

Extract lets you pass the chore of the most difficult and time consuming step of brewing over to an professional and an expert, while the steps you are less likely to screw up under your purview. Plus you can save some time.

I don't agree that the mashing is the most difficult step. Fermentation, cold side handling, and final packaging is probably the most involved and impactful step.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Color is one thing that's really hard to get right with extract yet the first thing judged.

Within BJCP guidelines, color is a range. For the styles that I brew with DME, I haven't had a problem with getting color in that range.

Maybe "color hard to get right" is due to a "darker than expected" starting color for the extract?

Evaluating the freshness of malt before using it is a well known practice. Similar techniques for evaluating the quality of LME also exist (BYO Dec 2020)

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I typically get my grains and water ready the night before so I can start my mash as soon as I wake up. It would be nice to have extract kits on hand if I want a shorter, impromptu brew-day.

There have been a couple of topics recently that discuss proper storage of ingredients (including LME). IIRC, storing LME in a hot garage didn't make the "best practices" list .

 

[balrog]

there are some recipes that just seem to come out better as an extract. I'm thinking of the Northern Brewer Caribou Slobber kit particularly.

I am curious, are there other styles than American amber, in your opinion, that come out better as extract?
<not starting a fight, not being snarky, there are no lines to read between, I am honestly, seriously, wondering>

 

[kartracer2]

Within BJCP guidelines, color is a range. For the styles that I brew with DME, I haven't had a problem with getting color in that range.

Maybe "color hard to get right" is due to a "darker than expected" starting color for the extract?

Evaluating the freshness of malt before using it is a well known practice. Similar techniques for evaluating the quality of LME also exist (BYO Dec 2020)

Yeah all of this. ^^^
I don't brew for comps so color isn't top of my worry list but I do take note of it. The issue is some of the sellers don't always date stamp the package of extract. I don't worry about the big guys so much, I'm sure they keep a steady rotation, FIFO and all that. Id hate to guess how much extract goes through the door of the likes of Northern Brewer/Midwest Supplies warehouse every day. Pre-made, boxed kits at the LHBS I would tend to have more concern about. I guess that would depend on the store and their traffic.
Any way, have a great day folks,
Joel B.

 

[_BullDog_]

For big beers I supplement with sugars and extract. Particularly helpful as my system has trouble over 17-18 lbs of grain
DIPA gets sugar
Big Belgium’s get Candi syrup
Imperial stouts use extract

keep thinking of doing another extract beer and may do that soon. Haven’t done one since 2017

 

[Spivey24]

Even though I just dropped a good dime on an all in one system, I think I may try one of these partial mash short boil brews. Maybe a pale ale or something similar. Sounds good for when I want to only brew 5 gallons on a cold day.

 

[JimRausch]

are there other styles than American amber, in your opinion, that come out better as extract?

The Caribou Slobber is the only amber that I have done as an extract, so really can't say if it's a trend with Ambers, or just the one. I did it as an extract kit back years ago and liked it a lot. The next year I did it as AG, and it just seemed to be missing something. So I did it again as extract, and there it was again. Probably just my perception.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

A place where using some extract would be in brewing a very high OG beer, such as a Barleywine or Imperial Stout.
My mash tun was maxed out on these from the total grain bill, which was 30 pounds, so we could only brew 5 gallons at a time.
The Barleywine finished very nice, at 10.5% ABV.

 

[JimRausch]

A place where using some extract would be in brewing a very high OG beer, such as a Barleywine or Imperial Stout.

Very Good Point! I do this as well. It's also always a good idea to have some DME on hand in case your mash efficiency doesn't turn out the way you want it to be, and your projected OG will be low.

 

[usafbeerlover]

Hey,

I know a lot of folks on this end of the forum are new to brewing but I wanted to pop in and tell you to get good at extract brewing before moving on..

In the last year I've taken on a very intense job and would have lost my will to brew if it weren't for the ease of extract brewing on my stove top. On my next order of ingredients, I'll get appx 450 pints around $.90/pint! Plus my brew day is only about 1.5-3 hours!

I am looking forward to being able finish my electric brewery in my basement, but for now I'm getting really great beer at a fraction of the time and at a fraction of the cost of retail.

Nothing wrong with extract brewing

Hey,

I know a lot of folks on this end of the forum are new to brewing but I wanted to pop in and tell you to get good at extract brewing before moving on..

In the last year I've taken on a very intense job and would have lost my will to brew if it weren't for the ease of extract brewing on my stove top. On my next order of ingredients, I'll get appx 450 pints around $.90/pint! Plus my brew day is only about 1.5-3 hours!

I am looking forward to being able finish my electric brewery in my basement, but for now I'm getting really great beer at a fraction of the time and at a fraction of the cost of retail.

Same here. Went back to extract and loving it especially no boils!

 

[Jayjay1976]

Just bought my 2nd extract kit the other day. Easy quick brew day.

 

[Saunassa]

I do the occasional extract brew and always enjoy it. Some of my best brews have been extract recipes. I usually base them around the 15 min cascade pale ale recipe.

My favorite extract kit is a 15 minute pale ale. Using some grains for color and flavor makes all the difference. Mine is a cascade, Amarillo and mosaic. Easy and tasty

 

[Saunassa]

I brewed up an Amber using extract and steeping grains the other day. I work remote so using an induction plate to heat left me able to work. The setup and cleanup was so much quicker then with the Foundry, heck I just set the kettle in the snowbank to chill. No pump, tubing, hoses, mash pipe or immersion chiller to clean either. Will the beer be as good as all grain? Don't know but for the ease on a cold winters day it was worth it.
Oh and the boss asking what was boiling behind me during a Teams video call and saying a batch of beer was priceless.
Time to see what NB has on sale

 

[DosGatosBrewing]

Correct, as our past performance utilized extract. Made the switch to all grain, never looked back.
As stated, there is a place for extract brewing. But we chose to employ other methods.

I normally brew outside, but in January I had a weekend with no adult supervision, and it was really cold outside. I grabbed up an extract kit just to make sure I could still do it after 15 years of all grain brewing. It was a blast! Did a 1 hour partial boil on the stovetop, stunk up the house something awesome. No shame in extract brewing!

 

[bwible]

I am curious, are there other styles than American amber, in your opinion, that come out better as extract?
<not starting a fight, not being snarky, there are no lines to read between, I am honestly, seriously, wondering>

I used to brew an American Brown Ale with a combination of amber and dark DME that took first place in different area competitions for 3 years. I think I agree there are certain styles that can lend themselves better to extract brewing. Texas Brown Ale - yeah. Munich Helles - Helles no!

 

[T Murph]

I have a friend who makes excellent brews from extract. He has been brewing, teaching and winning awards since the 90s. Lol all with extract products. He also owns and operates a homebrew shop and is a renowned author of Homebrewing. He is very knowledgeable of grains, hops, yeast and processes but simply prefers to create his brews with extracts. His assistance helped me develop an all grain award winning recipe that is brewed commercially still today. LME and DME are beer making ingredients, it is up to brewer to make the best beer possible with the ingredients they use. Brew on, perfect your processes and enjoy the journey.

 

[greywolf]

All grain is more about ultimate control of the ingredients than it is in the quality of the brew. I've had many extract brews that are as good as they get. I generally do all grain more as a rite of passage than as an improvement on extract. Aside from a slightly higher cost there needn't be a difference in the quality of the beer.

 

[mashpaddled]

No hate for people who want to brew extract beers or just don't have the space for all grain equipment. Personally I like the brewing process so all grain gives me the maximum opportunity to enjoy brewing.

 

[Saunassa]

I have a friend who makes excellent brews from extract. He has been brewing, teaching and winning awards since the 90s. Lol all with extract products. He also owns and operates a homebrew shop and is a renowned author of Homebrewing. He is very knowledgeable of grains, hops, yeast and processes but simply prefers to create his brews with extracts. His assistance helped me develop an all grain award winning recipe that is brewed commercially still today. LME and DME are beer making ingredients, it is up to brewer to make the best beer possible with the ingredients they use. Brew on, perfect your processes and enjoy the journey.

Following a defined process, fresh ingredients, fresh yeast and temp control I can see him making great beer. What I have learned and do is so different then when I started 4 years ago. Thought that my very first brew, extract pale ale was best thing ever. Same kit a year later was so much better.

 

[Carolina_Matt]

When I switched from extract to BIAB, I noticed an immediate improvement in my beer. I'm definitely glad I switched. But when Northern has their extract sales, I've been tempted to buy a 3-pack of the Dead Ringer IPA for ~$23/kit. I typically get my grains and water ready the night before so I can start my mash as soon as I wake up. It would be nice to have extract kits on hand if I want a shorter, impromptu brew-day.

To follow up on my post from 2 months ago, Northern has their sales @ $25/kit. I'm going to get two Dead Ringer IPAs and an Ace of Spades Black IPA. After a few years of BIAB, I'm interested to see how the extract kits work out.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

If you are not brewing the kits 'immediately', be sure to store the extract properly. And remember to include the 'packaged on' (or 'best by') date in your brew day notes.