Local Brewpub kind of sucks...

[samc]

A well run business is usually open to comments and critique of the operation. I've often spoke to management about food, drinks & service. Last time I did so they rewarded me with a gift card for dinner for my family. They were more than happy to hear from me about the issues as most people just don't come back rather than complain.

extract vs. ag in a small operation if done properly can insure easily repeatable results at a lower cost due to saved labor/time.

 

[HenryHill]

Still in business.

"This CPA and engineer researched what business would fill a niche needed in Port A. They came up with an affordable family friendly restaurant with beer and pizza and apparently were not wrong."

"Brewery owner, June Petitt, is pictured here with daughter Catie, son Robert and the restaurant greeter.
Catie came all the way from the brewery mecca Milwaukee, Wisconsin, to help with the family business."




https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f19/local-brewpub-just-opened-they-suck-71220/

http://www.portabrewing.com/

http://www.addabrewpub.com/

"A unique feature of our system is that it greatly enhances your food business. If you make your own pizza dough or dinner rolls, our malt and the pure yeast produced from each brew will make your sales soar."

 

[rayg]

So I went to a local brewpub to sample a beer or two while waiting for the kids to finish their dance classes. I've been to this place a couple of times and have never been wowed. This last time I started seriously asking myself why I'm wasting my money on their beer, when they also carry a very nice selection of regional beers (then I asked myself why I'd pay pub prices for something that I could probably buy at the beer store for 1/2 price)!

That's pretty odd: you don't like their beer, or their prices, but you keep
going, and now feel compelled to diss them here. Why not just not go
and forget about it?

Anyway, they had something called a "Belgian Brown", which was described by the brewer once as having all Belgian malts. The waitress thought that he used Belgian yeast as well. I don't know. I felt a slickness on the tongue and it had an odd aroma that I would not associate necessarily with Belgian beers.

It's just a commercial name for their beer. Whether or not it's like a
Belgian ale you had somewhere once is probably irrelevant to them.

Then they had a Cream Ale, which was too heavy, too sweet, and too strong IMO.

AHBA standards are completely arbitrary and are based on what were
originally brand names anyway. I can imagine any malty/sweet ale
including dark ales being called "cream ales" by brewers.

Not to mention the fact that what doesn't taste good to you may be
great for others. They'll go out of business soon enough if their product
is that bad.

They brew in 20 gallon boil kettle and ferment in 40 gallon fermenters, IIRC. They brew extract.

Maybe I'm becoming a bit of a snob, but IMO it should not be too hard to hit SG using extract, and fermentation control OUGHT to be the most important thing a brewer can focus on (besides sanitation obviously) if they are going to sell their beer. I'm not tasting that in the beer.

If they can't brew a good beer with extract, they won't be able to do it
with all grain, since the extract is exactly the same thing as what you
get out of a mash. In fact, it's probably better since all grain requires
attention to a lot more variables and most beginners don't do well at it.

I know he's talked about some equipment upgrades, but I REALLY want to talk them into going AG. Yes it will add a bit of complexity to their brewing calculations, and some additional time during the brew day, but I honestly think they will get a cleaner tasting beer than what they are doing now.

If it were me, I'd reply: "Sure, if you're willing to pay the salaries of all
those extra man-hours needed to do it."

Ray

 

[Germelli1]

Homer, you a$$hole, I am the brewmaster of this struggling pub and now I am in tears!


just kidding...offer advice and leave it up to them to take it or leave it!

 

[StoutattheDevil]

Get em Revvy!!'

 

[malkore]

Extract only seems expensive until you consider what additional equipment (and space) a brewpub needs to mill, mash, lauter and sparge all that grain.

And then worry about grain dust contaminating the fermenter/bright tanks.

Granite City is another chain restaurant/pub that doesn't do AG, but instead has the wort shipped in and then its fermented on site.

 

[PorterIdontknowher]

Extract only seems expensive until you consider what additional equipment (and space) a brewpub needs to mill, mash, lauter and sparge all that grain.

And another good reason to go Extract... time...

If the person doing the brewing has another role at the restaurant, 3 hours to brew can fit between the tail end of the lunch crowd and the start of the dinner crowd. Add another hour and a half plus for all-grain and that isn't as easy.

Also, time=money. LME is $2 a pound at Morebeer for what would be bulk for a homebrewer but small for a brewery. $0.65/pound for base malt would be reasonable for similar quantities from a similar vendor. At 70% efficiency that's $0.93/pound for somewhat equivalent wort. Say your brewer costs you ONLY $20/hour including benefits. Assume an extra 1.5 hours on a brew day to do all grain. You break even at using 28 pounds of extract.

Now at larger quantities both grain and LME get cheaper, but still if you're a small place with a 1 barrel system, if you're paying someone to brew, extract vs. all grain is (based on the back of the envelope) a close call financially.

 

[passedpawn]

When my wife makes a cake, she starts by opening a box. That's OK by me, but if I go into a cake store I expect them to open a bag of flour.

[ ... Passedpawn dons his flameproof suit ... ]

 

[JNye]

When my wife makes a cake, she starts by opening a box. That's OK by me, but if I go into a cake store I expect them to open a bag of flour.

[ ... Passedpawn dons his flameproof suit ... ]

is a brewery and a brewpub the same? not really, one produces beer explicitly, the other dabbles. certainly some brewpubs are more serious about the beer then others, but there are many that produce beer simply for the hype factor of "brew pub" or "craft beer".

Homer, just make friends with them. It'll all work itself out if you start the relationship off on a positive note.

 

[Homercidal]

That's pretty odd: you don't like their beer, or their prices, but you keep
going, and now feel compelled to diss them here. Why not just not go
and forget about it?

Their beer prices aren't that bad, and I'm not dissing them, just the beer they make, and only because it's not good. The reason I don't want to forget about them is because I have pride in my community and would like to see a local brewpub succeed. Not to mention it's a long drive to anywhere else with craft beer.

It's just a commercial name for their beer. Whether or not it's like a
Belgian ale you had somewhere once is probably irrelevant to them.

I've had many Belgian Ales, and the off flavors I've tasted before were not like the other, this is true. But it's not a commercial name for their beer, it's a description of the style. I don't think the name is the problem. I think the problem is the beer is not right.

AHBA standards are completely arbitrary and are based on what were
originally brand names anyway. I can imagine any malty/sweet ale
including dark ales being called "cream ales" by brewers.

Not to mention the fact that what doesn't taste good to you may be
great for others. They'll go out of business soon enough if their product
is that bad.

To be clear, I'm going by BJCP descriptions. I think it misses on a few points. And you make it sound like I WANT them to go out of business, which is completely untrue. I really want them to succeed.

If they can't brew a good beer with extract, they won't be able to do it
with all grain, since the extract is exactly the same thing as what you
get out of a mash. In fact, it's probably better since all grain requires
attention to a lot more variables and most beginners don't do well at it.



If it were me, I'd reply: "Sure, if you're willing to pay the salaries of all
those extra man-hours needed to do it."

Ray

I agree that AG requires attention to more variables, but it's not that much harder. And I think that brewing AG allows you more freedom to make the wort what you want it to be, instead of having to work around what the extract company has created. They may not be willing to invest in the time and equipment that going to AG entails. I know that is not the root problem. I think that if they modified the extract brewing process they could do much better. I suppose I was speaking about AG too early, since I really don't know what they have for process. For all I know it could be the water, or they are not using their chemicals properly.

As far as man-hours, it would be worth it to spend a couple of more man-hours brewing decent beer, than to continue losing customers, and reputation selling sub-par beer, don't you think?

 

[rayg]

As far as man-hours, it would be worth it to spend a couple of more man-hours brewing decent beer, than to continue losing customers, and reputation selling sub-par beer, don't you think?

Not if the extract has nothing to do with it.

Ray

 

[buzzkill]

Homer, you a$$hole, I am the brewmaster of this struggling pub and now I am in tears!


just kidding...offer advice and leave it up to them to take it or leave it!

now thats some funny $h!t

 

[vandeg]

I've lived in Big Rapids for 4 years (went to Ferris) and recently moved back down to Grand Rapids, I've seen the restaurant there and heard great things about the food but never knew they brewed. Then again it could just be something new.

Back on track, you asked about the water supply, it is all city water. I know Schuberg's next door has it and so do all the Ferris dorms. When I lived in a apartment I was lucky enough to have a filter on the tap, I was brought up on well water and can taste chlorine easily. Though whenever I wanted decent brew in Big Rapids friends would hook me up or go out and buy a 6pk at Grunst Brothers which has the widest variety I've seen in that area.

Though I'm glad to hear that a brew pub opened there, if they had decent brew at a fair price all sorts of students would go there. But I fear that the new Buffalo Wild Wings and the Gate will be a favored due to the cheap light beer and the fact that people up there just drink to get wasted...

 

[HenryHill]

Homer, I totally understand wanting your local brewery to brew fabulous beer and you see that they aren't and know that they probably fairly easily could be; trust me, I feel your pain. I get it. I get it.

My local brewery, which I need not name, used to make fabulous beer and was starting to attract a lot of attention. Then a brewer left, then another, then another. Now the brewer is a kid who just happens to work there, because his dad happens to work there, and his grandfather. He follows the recipes, does what he is supposed to and when there are taste issues, it is always his fault, all for 11 bucks an hour. While no one doesn't make a mistake, most are easily traced to sanitation problems in the cellar department, should they bother to look. But it's easier to blame him and step on his wage at the same time, rather than to find where the issue is and make sure it doesn't happen again. The current brewer is just there for a job now and not happy, and not being paid nearly enough to keep him for long. He has no real incentive to fight the system to make the beer better, for all the head banging on the wall he could do, the owner is consistently lessening the grain bills, lessening the flavor/aroma additions, and dramatically lessening the dry hopping.

So the owner is his own worst enemy; the morale is as bad as any place could be, and while economic conditions depress pub business and off site sales, the reaction to those issues is an exacerbation of those very issues, with the result a continuing spiral of poor customer experience, and lower sales.

Sure I could say something, sure I could back it up, sure I could present it positively, proactively, and politely, but the fact of the matter is, he don't want to hear, he is never wrong, and I have been thru the 'Who are you to tell me how to run my business' when I was younger, and I figure I am not the going to be the one ever again, unless I'm asked, and even then I'll have to consider it for a long, long time. It's the proverbial 'stepping on his own dikk'. The bottom line is that the guy-in-charge's personality filter's thru-out the whole place; either that personality allows a culture of constant improvement or one of constant obedience; it don't work both ways, and that's all there is to it.

I have gone there and not been happy for a long time, and go less and less, but still having personal ties there, and knowing what the beer once was, I've been optimistic long past any reason to, and am slowly but surely just throwing in the towel and trying not to think about it much anymore.

I get it, dude, I get it.

 

[agroff383]

I'm surprised to hear that a brew pub is making extract beers.

That was also news to me. I assumed anyone selling beer to the general public was doing it with mashing and sparging. This may explain some of the poorly crafted beers I have had around here, then again, one can make a poor beer with regular malts. I would have never assumed that an establishment selling beer would use any kind of extract.

I learn something every time I get on this site!

 

[jordanpace]

I'm just curious where the "extract twang" would fit into this conversation.

Maybe its just a myth, but it has been well documented on this site.

If I were to enter a beer into a competition, I would never make a extract (provided that I have access to all-grain equipment).

Also, I would also expect to to drink all-grain beer in any brewpub. Maybe its just me, but what brewer on this site would open up a brewpub and make extract beers? It seems if you know much about this hobby/profession, all-grain is what we all strive for.

This is just my opinion.

 

[Germelli1]

The "extract twang" has more to do with fermentation temperature control. If you really think about it, most of us start with extract, and in the beginning of our brewing endevours there are many things that we fail to control properly.

Personally, I had an issue with the extract twang with my first 3 batches. I started making starters and controlling my fermentation temperatures and I made a few phenominal batches of beer from extract before switching to all grain. Both of those practices got rid of the twang, and both cut down the stress on the yeast.

 

[rayg]

Maybe its just a myth, but it has been well documented on this site.

Vampires are just a myth, but they've been well-documented all
over the internet.

Ray

 

[user 30639]

The latest issue of BYO had a couple articles about professionals using extract and doing quite well at it. To me, making good beer is less about extract v. all grain and more about using quality ingredients, a good recipe and doing a good job every time you brew.

 

[Revvy]

Just left the Mountain Town Station brewery in Mt Pleasant. The food was phenominal. The beer wasn't bad. I 've had worse. I had an ipa that was decent though not as hoppy as I like and a stout that was reallly good. I had the pork medallians in morell sauce and tasted my gf's chicken marsalla. Both were great.

 

[Homercidal]

I think I will strike up a conversation with the brewer and see if he would mind me helping out. It would be the first time I'd got to work in an actual "brewery" (even if it's just a large homebrew system).

It may get to the point where I would feel comfortable in commenting on improvements and they can take or leave them as they see fit.

I had originally thought that his extract method might be a cause, due to having the same strange flavor in all beers I've tried, but after being reminded about water, I think this could be a potential problem. We don't have chlorine and stuff in our water here in RC. I don't think that it would a big deal for them to treat the water or get water from Ice Mountain if they were inclined to try a different source.