Little help with stupid Mass politicians???

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Homercidal said:
But did you honestly think that sticking a hop plant or two in the backyard of the brewery somehow makes this license valid? That would obviously be a token gesture.

There must be a copy of the original statute available for review. It's very hard to believe that anyone would write up something like that and it so ambiguous as to not determine some kind of amount.
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I'm really not sure how people aren't getting this.

For about the 12th time... we REVIEWED the original statute. We had our ATTORNEY review the original statute. We contacted the ABCC directly on this topic. Our attorney contacted the ABCC directly. TWENTY-FIVE other effin breweries are already licensed and do the EXACT same thing... simply toss a hop vine up near the brewery.... and it has all been fine for years becuase there.... IS... NO... PERCENTAGE... IN... THE... LAW.

I appreciate that is hard for you to believe so look it up. Google Chapter 138 Section 19C of the Mass General laws.

And also for the 12th time... Boston Beer Co (Sam Adams) has this effin license. Do you HONESTLY think the ABCC was under the impression that Sam Adams grew (AND effin malted) some material percentage of their total ingredients?

It was an incredibly vague law/license that every one used. The ABCC decided enough was enough and tossed out a completely arbitrary number of 50% that has zero basis in any existing law. That number, if it sticks, makes the license unobtainable for EVERY SINGLE of the 25 existing breweries that have it. And also for the 12th time... the ONLY other alternate license is impossible for a start-up to work under.

So by making this change, the ABCC is basically making start-up breweries in Massachusetts impossible.
 
My strong suspicion is that the whole process is going to get changed.

The Manufacturer's license will probably be loosened up a hair, the Farmer Brewer's license will stil require farming but not at the 50% threshold and then I am willing to bet that a third "small brewery license" is created that grants the benefits of the FB license but is a bit more expensive or something.
 
With the people who are contacting the officials over this, I suspect there will be some change. I can't believe the people in charge will allow all of those places to close or lose 1/3 or more of their revenue. It's a lose-lose for everyone. Nobody wants that.
 
Cape Brewing said:
My strong suspicion is that the whole process is going to get changed.

The Manufacturer's license will probably be loosened up a hair, the Farmer Brewer's license will stil require farming but not at the 50% threshold and then I am willing to bet that a third "small brewery license" is created that grants the benefits of the FB license but is a bit more expensive or something.
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I agree.

I'd love to see more locally-grown beer ingredients, but not at the expense of the excellent MA-based craft brewers. If a brewery can farm (or purchase from local farmers) a third of their raw ingredients, charge them nothing more than a nominal fee.

For craft brewers, a reasonable fee (something more than $22, something far less than $10k!), allow self-distribution, allow tasting rooms. Sliding scale-fee based on production. Look at the growth of wineries in the Finger Lakes region - none of that is happening without tasting rooms! And, disallowing self-distribution does absolutely nothing except benefit the third-party distributors. It's a business decision that I've heard Jim Koch talk about, it's a lot of work to self-distribute but it's a helluva lot more profitable if you're successful.

Who in the state operates under the "Manufacturer" license?

There's no reason for brewing to not be a growth industry for the state. There's certainly demand for good beer (I'm always blown away by how much better the selection here is, even in ****ty little packies, than almost anywhere else). It's a big, positive part of the Pacific Northwest culture, it should be the same for New England.
 
Generally brewing licenses are stupidly operated.

It only makes sense that they would want to encourage people to build brewpubs and make it as easy for them to start up as an bar or liquor store. The output is the same: People drinking.

A brewpub would bring even more job growth and likely higher tax income. And a tasting room is an obvious plus for anybody. I can't understand how they aren't allowed for ANY small brewery.

It just seems like such an obvious boon to any community to have a small brewpub if the owner decides it's a worthwhile business to get started. I think people will come to see this again like it was long ago before big beer killed them all off. It's something the community can be proud of.
 
Just sent this email to our state senator (Ben Downing) and representative (Gailanne Cariddi). This is a small town, there's a 10% chance these people may actually recognize my name!

Real concern with proposed changes to “Farmer-Brewer” licenses.

Greetings,

I have some real concerns with the advisory the MA Alcoholic Beverages Control Commission yesterday issued this week, regarding changes to the “farmer-brewery” licenses that so many Massachusetts craft brewers operate under. My understanding is that any brewery operating under this license would now be required to source at least half of their raw ingredients from Massachusetts farms.

While I certainly support farming in Massachusetts, this strikes me as being unduly stringent. There simply is not enough barley grown in the state (and no commercial hop farming that I am aware of) that would allow existing breweries to meet this requirement. Forcing craft brewers to apply for a “Manufacturers” license would significantly increase their costs, and just as importantly not allow them to either self-distribute or to offer a tasting room (both very important to small, startup operations).

I do not doubt that the changes were proposes with good intentions, but the potential consequences are that many smaller breweries may be forced to shut down, and this certainly will discourage new breweries from being formed. I’ve learned about this issue specifically because I have a very good friend who is in the process of forming a craft brewery, and who is now almost certain to locate in Rhode Island instead of MA. I’d like to think that having a vibrant craft brewing industry can be an important part of this state’s culture, just as the winemaking industry is so important to places like Napa Valley and the Finger Lakes.

I’d be very interested in hearing your thoughts on this issue. Thank you!

***
Adams, MA
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Ugh, please don't tell me I have to support Scott Brown on an issue... Does seem like this should be an issue for the state legislators, not guys like Brown, though.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/articles/2011/08/05/sen_brown_new_beer_rule_is_a_job_killer/

Senator Scott Brown yesterday condemned a rule change at the state’s Alcoholic Beverages Control Commission that beer makers say could harm 25 craft brewers in Massachusetts, and even put some smaller companies out of business.

The ABCC issued the revised rule, which has yet to be finalized, earlier this week. It would require the roughly two dozen local brewers operating under a so-called farmer-brewery license to grow at least half of the hops or grains they use to make beer, or get them from a domestic source.

“The commission’s insistence that a brewery grow at least 50 percent of the cereal grains and hops used in production is impractical in Massachusetts and a job-killer,’’ Brown wrote yesterday in a letter to state Treasurer and Receiver General Steven Grossman, who oversees the commission. “The costs of compliance would be burdensome, and in some cases, crushing . . . I urgently request that the ABCC reconsider this proposed change.’’

Grossman said that after seeing Brown’s letter, he immediately called the senator to reassure him that the rule change is a “work in progress.’’

The treasurer is scheduled to meet with brewers on Monday. “It’s meant to be an opportunity to listen to the industry and hear their concerns,’’ Grossman said. “I consider this advisory to be a work in progress. I consider it to be something that is out there for comment, and we will take into account any and all comments from the public or the industry.’’

The commission has said its advisory is an attempt to clarify just who qualifies as a farmer-brewer - someone who grows hops or grain to produce a malt beverage.

But brewers have said it would be difficult, if not impossible, to get a farmer-brewery license under the new requirements laid out by the commission. Without that license, they could not operate on-site tastings at breweries, and many fear they would have to pay a distributor to get their products into retail outlets, rather than saving money by doing it themselves.

Grossman said his office will use input from Monday’s meeting to help the ABCC craft a “thoughtful, common-sense’’ rule.

“We need to do everything we can to create jobs and to celebrate and nurture entrepreneurship,’’ he said.

At the same time, Grossman added, the commission shouldn’t shy away from asking “the industry to bend over backwards to help and to nurture the agricultural sector of the industry - but without making the bar so high that it is excessively onerous or burdensome.’’
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OH, now it's a work in progress. They're taking comments on it. And apparently the license is not at all about the brewery, but about propping up the states agriculture.
 
1. I agree that them suddently creating a % that you are supposed to farm is a farce. I've known people that talked to ABC as well about this, and they said you were good to go with a farmers license.

2. How was Sam Adams listed under this license. That is a joke.

3. Where are you pulling the $10k manufacturer license cost? License to be a manufacturer of Wine and Malt beverages is $4,500. All booze (distilled spirits) is $10k.
http://www.mass.gov/abcc/pdf/StateLicenseFeeSchedule.pdf

4. I am still 90% sure you can self distribute in MA, regardless of your license. You just need a license to Sell and Transport (another $500 to $1k). I would hope the cost for the storage license is included with the Manufacturer's license. (Cape - if you have the details showing you can't self distribute under the MALT beverage manufacturing license, please share it so I am informed. I'll do some more research later tonight, I need to bookmark things like this more often)

And just a question on the self distribution - If you manufacture in RI - I would assume you HAVE to have a distributor for MA. Need to look that up too. And if you need to get in touch with a distributor, I have a guy.


But yeah this is B.S. They do need some tiers for these licenses. No way a nano should be paying what Boston Beer Co is for their license. And I'm shocked they were granted the Farmer Brewery license.

This is why I try to ignore politics (and maybe a good example of why I shouldn't....)
 
Well, as to why Sam Adams operates under this license... the manufacturing license would prevent them from having their tasting rooms (which they clearly view as being very important). There's no reason I can think of why breweries operating under a "Manufacturer's" license shouldn't also be allowed to having tasting rooms.
 
Luke...

Couple things there and excuse me, I'm on my phone so linking ain't exactly the easiest thing to do right now.

On the Manufacturer's license fees... Thats odd and I've never seen that fee schedule. If you read the actual statutes under chapter 138, it says "no less than $6k and no more than $10k".

If we brew in RI we can self distribute ONLY in RI. That is right. We would need to go through a distributor for Mass. But at least we could start out very small and distribute locally on our own.

The self distribution under the Manufacturer's license is a hot topic of debate. If you read any of the press, that is a main concern of bigger breweries in the state... They want to self distribute. The law isn't clear and I goota think Boston Beer Co has a few lawyers on hand. If this wasn't an issue, I don't think they would be showing as much concern as they are.
 
Cape Brewing said:
Luke...
The self distribution under the Manufacturer's license is a hot topic of debate. If you read any of the press, that is a main concern of bigger breweries in the state... They want to self distribute. The law isn't clear and I goota think Boston Beer Co has a few lawyers on hand. If this wasn't an issue, I don't think they would be showing as much concern as they are.
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Ahh - that makes sense. Sucks for small guys but that makes sense. Hopefully they get their act together and make better tiers for these licenses.

And when you can check the link, check what I sent previously. It is the ABCC's schedule for licenses and fees.

This has caused a pretty good uproar, hopefully that continues.
 
Thats a good article. The $6k to $10k isn't referenced, just the author throwing a range with no facts (I trust the ABCC lincense fee schedule on that). Hopefully the new legislation passes, its got the right momentum to. Then we can have real system instead of the half-arsed one that was in place. So out of the over reaction (and mis-step by administrators) in the first place by legislation and dumb advisories, hopefully something good comes of this.

Will have to call the state senator and voice the old opinion.
 
I think the are getting the $6k - $10k fron the same place I did... In the actual statute that discusses the Manufacturer's license and where it says, "no less than $6k and no more then $10k".
 
Chapter 138 section 19

"The license fee for each manufacturer of alcoholic beverages, in respect of each plant, shall be such sum, not less than $6,000 nor more than $10,000, as under the circumstances of the licensee’s probable volume of sales under this section, the capacity of his plant and the location thereof, the commission shall deem just and proper; provided, that the license fee for each manufacturer of cider or other alcoholic beverage made from apples shall be such sum, not less than twenty-five nor more than two hundred and fifty dollars, as the commission shall deem just and proper, but no such fee shall be collected from any such manufacturer for the making of cider, the sale of which is authorized by section three without a license."
 
Interesting about the 'Johny Appleseed' exemption for cider. Wonder why? Stupid question! These laws never make sense.
 
Got a response back.


Hello ***...
Thank you for writing about this new ABCC requirement. I cosponsored a bill that would create a new craft brewers license in Massachusetts.

If I can assist your friend to start his business in the First Berkshire District or any where in Massachusetts please send him my contact information.
Gail
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So, there you go, Cape. You need some help?
 
I was at a meeting on Saturday morning for start up breweries in the state and the Mass Brewers Guild was there. The MBG is meeting with State Treasurer Grossman this afternoon to talk through the whole thing and I'm pretty confident the MBG has everyone's best interests at heart (consumers, start-ups, all the way up to Boston Beer Co). Rumor has it that Grossman wants this all fixed ASAP and is very willing to get educated on the topic so we're all being asked to sit tight and see what comes of today's meeting.

We'll see.
 
I was at the Cape Ann Brew Pub on Sunday...man I hope Grossman gets a chance to go there and have some wings and beer...he'll see this whole mess in a new light.
 
Cape Brewing said:
Agreed... Thats exactly why we are seriously looking at Rhode Island now. $500, can self distribute anywhere in the state, can have a huge tasting room if we want and sell right from the brewery.
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Watch out in Rhode Island. The $500 license may be good but they'll get you in every other way possible. The local gov't is broke and they are looking at everything to raise revenue, taxes, fees, anything they can think of. There is almost 0 new business startup since I moved here in 1999. Most large businesses have downsized and many have left the state.
 
Well, it seems pretty damn likely at this point that the MA politicians will get this fixed. C'mon, we're the state of Teddy Kennedy - of course they're going to do whatever they can to support booze manufacturing!
 
yeah, the speed with which this all went down was pretty amazing.

There probably isn't a way I can be UNbiased on the topic but Jeeeeeesus... whatta stupid decision on the part of the ABCC. These are supposed to be the folks who are tied to the "alcohol community" and for them to come out with what they did... it was insane.

The backlash has been pretty significant and I think it is an opportunity for a bunch of politicians to make some really easy positive press... "I am fighting for jobs in our state!!"

It is a no-brainer to fix and easy press for the politians who jump on board.

Like I was saying to my partners the other day... who the %&^$ is going to vote "no"???? The problem is getting it actually through in terms of the bureaucracy of the state govt.
 
And, from Ben Downing's office...

Mr. ***,

Thank you for reaching out to Senator Ben Downing to register your concerns with the ABCC’s recent Advisory on Farmer-Brewer licenses. Please be assured that Senator Downing shares your concerns with the implications of this Advisory for craft brewers.

Since the Advisory was issued the Senator has reached out to Treasurer Grossman, who oversees the ABCC, to learn more about why this decision was made. The Treasurer is scheduled to meet with small brewing industry officials to hear their concerns with the ABCC’s Advisory. We are hopeful this conversation will provide us with more information and guidance on the matter.

However, as you may have read in recent Berkshire Eagle reports, the Senator is concerned that craft brewers will be negatively affected by this Advisory – especially craft brewers that operate in his district and is currently exploring legislative options. He has co-sponsored legislation filed by his colleague Senator Hedlund which would create a craft brewery license in Massachusetts allowing craft brewers, who do not meet the new ABCC requirements to keep their Farmer-Brewers license, to apply for a new license at the same price as a Farmer-Brewers license and continue to stay in business and produce up to 200,000 barrels of malt beverages per year. Additionally, the craft brewery license allows breweries to continue tastings, tours, and the ability to sell their product at their brewery. This proposal is currently numbered SD 2072 and titled An Act to Promote Craft Brewing in Massachusetts.

The Senators legislative aide is following this issue closely and the Senator is committed to making sure that small craft brewers are not negatively affected by the ABCC’s recent decisions.

Thank you again for reaching out to the Senator on this matter. I hope this information is helpful, please do not hesitate to contact Sen. Downing again if we can provide additional assistance.
Best,
Bethann
Bethann S. Steiner, Chief of Staff
Office of Senator Ben Downing
State House, Room 413-F, Boston, MA 02133
(617) 722-1625 | www.SenatorDowning.com
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It's kind of nice to actually hear back from these folks.
 
Totally agree Bird... I haven't gotten squat back from Timilty. The bastid.

Hopefully they can get this all pushed through ASAP and I can go back to the important stuff like how I am going to get a floor drain put into the space we're lookin' at.
 
I got ANOTHER response from Ben Downing's office.

Senator Downing asked me to respond to your email regarding farmer-brewer licensure. After meeting with stakeholders, the ABCC has determined it will not move forward with its initial decision to require brewers to grow 50% of their brewing ingredients in the Commonwealth. Senator Downing continues to be in personal contact with the Treasurer’s office on this issue and he looks forward to working to ensure the viability of the growing economic engine of farmer-breweries.

Thank you for writing to register your concern on this issue; please do not hesitate to contact the office if we can provide any further information.

Sincerely,

Christopher Gilrein, Legislative/Budget Aide
Office of Senator Benjamin B. Downing
State House, Room 413F
Boston, MA 02133
Phone: (617) 722-1625
Fax: (617) 722-1523
www.senatordowning.com
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Guess I know who I'm voting for!
 
Good that they reversed it. Stupid if this doesn't bring about some change. Have a nano-license, a micro-license, and a larger micro-license. Then their manufacturer's license for BMC.

From the article sounds like there are still discussions, but this initial rollback allows the status quo to remain for now, which is good.

Cape - when you're ready to sell some of the first batch please let us know. Looking forward to buying and guzzling.
 
Much appreciated.

Only problem is we are already over capacity and we haven't signed a lease yet. We have standing orders from five or six bars for "whatever you guys make". It is really encouraging and a bit intimidating at the same time.
 
I hope you guys are very successful in your brewing venture. It is nice knowing that there really IS a demand for quality brew out there. Even more so knowing that there are brewers willing to step up to the plate and make a go of it.

I raise my glass to you sir, and hope that you kick ass at every turn. :rockin: :ban:
 
Cape Brewing said:
Much appreciated.

Only problem is we are already over capacity and we haven't signed a lease yet. We have standing orders from five or six bars for "whatever you guys make". It is really encouraging and a bit intimidating at the same time.
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... I still think you've got to reconsider that name. Sorry, dude, it just makes me think of mud bogs or peat bogs and swampwater, which ain't appetizing. You shouldn't have to explain your name too everybody, anyway.
 
Golddiggie said:
I hope you guys are very successful in your brewing venture. It is nice knowing that there really IS a demand for quality brew out there. Even more so knowing that there are brewers willing to step up to the plate and make a go of it.

I raise my glass to you sir, and hope that you kick ass at every turn. :rockin: :ban:
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Damn, thanks. I think that's probably the nicest post I've ever seen on HBT. Thanks again.
 

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