Little help with stupid Mass politicians???

[Cape Brewing]

www.boston.com/lifestyle/food/blogs...on_farmer.html?comments=all&plckCurrentPage=2

Write early and often if you don't mind.

In a nutshell.... Brewing licenses in the state of Massachusetts pretty much fall into two categories... a Farmers-Brewer license and a Manufacturers License.

The Manufactures License is $10k per year, requires that you distribute through a state-licensed distributor (so you can not self-distribute) and does not allow for tasting rooms. That is a separate license on top of the $10k per year.

The FB license is one that has been around in the state for a while. It basically says, if you grow your ingredients, you can use this license. Under this license, you can self-distribute, have a tasting room and the lowest fee for this license (depending on bbls produced) is $22 a year.

There has never been any guidance on "grow your ingredients" means. Is it 10%, 50%, 100%? No one has known. Is it just hops? Just grains? Again... no direction.

The above article is about what has happened in the last 24 hours in Massachusetts.

This will immediately put a number of nanos out of business and any start-ups in the works will instantly bail. It'll put a very real dent in the craft beer market development here in Mass.

In my view... if they want to close the "loophole" on the FB license, that's fine but they HAVE to come up with another "small brewer" license that makes sense for start-ups.

 

[headbanger]

IMO if you make yeast starters then you're "growing" your own ingredients...

Just a thought

 

[Steve-oh]

I read that this morning. The irony was palpable since I remember reading a similar article in the Glob last week about all of the new micro breweries that have opened up in the past years and plan to open up in the coming years. It was sunshine and lollipops. Then the government came to help.

It was almost like someone at the ABCC read the article and said, "Shucks, if we can get in on this somehow, we can make a boatload in fees from these suckers."

And now this.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Two partners and I have a fed tax ID number, we registered the LLC with the state, we are in pretty far along talks with the landlord and we have our fermenters ordered and on the way.

This just killed the whole thing.

We're seriously considering Rhode Island now since we are all about 20 minutes from the border. In RI it is a $500 fee and a two page application.

 

[pauljmccain]

Send a letter out to your representatives, the board, and governor explaining to them why you are moving to RI to start your new business. Write it well, and gently remind them of how much revenue and business will be lost in the state due to your decision to open there, because of the prohibitive law in Mass. That will get them thinking.

 

[Homercidal]

But wait. People who signed up for this license knew in advance that they were required to grow their own ingredients. How many do you think actually grew ANY of their ingredients??

I'm guessing it's something close to ZERO.

So all of these breweries were essentially grabbing a license to operate what they already knew was an illegal operation, according to the guidelines of the license. Now they want to complain when someone notices?

I'm not trying to defend the Liquor control commission here. This is just a reality check.

Honestly, they could dump the grow your own CRAP, and simply sell inexpensive licenses to brewers based on their annual volume. The more you brew and sell, the more the license fee. Plus they get the tax revenue for the sales, so it's a win-win for the state.

This is more than likely going to be as well received as the FARMERS license (ya know, for FARMERS....)

 

[Cape Brewing]

Yeah, you've got about 0% of the facts correct.

Up until the ABCC put out the "Advisory" the other day stating "50%" there was NO precentage required in the legistation. It simply said that you needed to "grow some of your ingredients". So all of the brewers that have used this license simply tossed a hop bine or two on the property and were done with it. It has been operating like this for years.

So... your whole "illegal operation" theory is a steaming pile.

We (my partners and I), and then our attorney, contacted the ABCC directly a few months ago and asked the specific question.. "What percentage do we have to grow" and they would not give us an answer. There is nothing shadey or illegal about breweries getting this license. Again... there were no "guidelines".

The other huge parts that you don't know are that the Farmer-Brewers license is the only license in Mass that allows you to self-distribute. It ALSO allows for a tasting room on the premisis. Lastly, the annual fee for this license is under $200

The only other license a brewer can get in Mass is basically a Manufacturer's License... which ranges from $6k to $10k PER YEAR. In addition, you can't self-distribute under a Mass Manufacturer's License... meaning, you HAVE to sell your beer through a distributor. Lastly, you can't have a tasting room with that license.

So... now... for a start-up, you have to shell out up to $10k per year. You can't invite people in to taste your beer and you have to sell through the same distributor that is making millions per year off of Bud Light. Personally, I'm a little skeptical that a distributor is going to give ANY time to a start up when they can blink and make a few million off of Bud Light.

And by every single view everyone has taken on this since it has come out, know how many "FARMERS" are going to benefit from this in the state of Mass?? Zero. There isn't ONE that will meet this criteria.

If they want to close a "loophole" that was for "farmers"... that's great and I kind of agree with what you're saying but they didn't phase this in. They simply denied an applicant and made up the "50%" on the spot. Like I said, that "50%" didn't exist a week ago.

And they're not grandfathering it so there is a real chance some existing breweries WILL go out of business.

If they want to close this loophole, they should have had a reasonable alternative waiting in the wings. Instead some jagoff at the ABCC made a decision that is going to immediately kill start up breweries in the state.

 

[Bulls Beers]

I hate this fukcin state..I'll call them now. I know your not that close to NH, but they love new business...Plus they REALLY love there beer..I'm from NH, I love beer.....

Just a thought...Good luck Bri...

 

[Cape Brewing]

It's crazy....

Rhode Island: Manufacturer License = $500 annually, CAN self distribute, CAN have a tasting room

Massachusetts: Manufacturer's License = $6k-$10k, can NOT self distribute, can NOT have a tasting room

WTF is wrong with this state???

We're seriously talking about just crossing the border into Rhodey. it is only a 20 minute drive for each of us.

 

[brewmonk]

**( HIJACK )**

Two partners and I have a fed tax ID number, we registered the LLC with the state, we are in pretty far along talks with the landlord and we have our fermenters ordered and on the way.

This just killed the whole thing.

We're seriously considering Rhode Island now since we are all about 20 minutes from the border. In RI it is a $500 fee and a two page application.

gtfo!! that's awesome, i didn't know that you guys were doing that!!! kickin!

** /hijack **

 

[the_bird]

... as long as your partners aren't Paulie and Yeager. Well, as long as your BUSINESS partners aren't those two!

Congrats, this is really cool to hear, had no idea this was in the works for you.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Yeah, we've kept it on the DL for a while.

It's been fun until this effin stupid licensing issue.

Www.bogironbrewing.com

We are talking micro-nano but... We'll see.

This Farmer-Brewer license issue is a nightmare though. We (and a few other nanos that are starting up) are absolutely dead in the water if this action by the ABCC doesn't end up with some sort of solution.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Oh... And uhhhh. No, PTN and Yeager arent the partners. I BEGGED Paul and he just wasn't interested.

 

[Greyhound]

And Massachusetts wonders why companies are leaving the state in droves. This law will weaken and already troubled state economy.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Agreed... Thats exactly why we are seriously looking at Rhode Island now. $500, can self distribute anywhere in the state, can have a huge tasting room if we want and sell right from the brewery.

 

[kappclark]

Looks like we'll meet you in R.I. !

Best of luck with this great adventure

 

[passedpawn]

In my view... if they want to close the "loophole" on the FB license, that's fine but they HAVE to come up with another "small brewer" license that makes sense for start-ups.

There's no loophole there. It seems that for 99.9% of the brewers, you pay the manufacturer's license fee.

You say "another", but it sounds like you and perhaps others assumed that you could jump into the smaller license arbitrarily. Are you a farmer?

While Mass. licensing is clearly prohibitive to small brewers, I don't see a lot of ambiguity there. Either you pay the big fee or you are a farmer.

Just go to Rogue's Island and be done with it. F'em.

 

[Cape Brewing]

And that's where you're wrong. 99% of the breweries in Mass (including Sam Adams) have the Farmer Brewery license. The Globe listed them out. I think there are 25 of them. And know how many of the existing " Farmer Brewers" qualify for that license now that the rules has suddenly changed? Zero.

It isnt "jumping into it" artbitrarily. Our effin attorney asked them straight up what the "percentage" was and we were not given one. If you read the actual law, it doesn't specify in any way. That and every other brewery in the state has this license. So.. I am not sure what is "arbitrary" about that.

And the loophole is the fact that they have never required a certain percentage in the past. You just had to grow "some of ypur ingredients" so the breweries tossed a few hop vines near the brewery and bingo.... There was "some of your ingredients".

Again.. If they want to close that loophole on the grounds of sayig that the FB license wasn't meant for that... Awesome... Do that... But the manufacturer's license in Mass is impossible for a start up to operate under so they need to come up with some other "small brewery" license. Either that or a few existing breweries will be out of business and we'll never have another small one start in this state.

 

[Cape Brewing]

A list of the current farmer brewers:

AFFECTED BREWERIES

Amherst Brewing Company, Inc. - 10 University Drive, Amherst
Boston Beer Corporation - 30 Germania St., Boston
Berkshire Mountain Brewers, Inc. - 420 Stockbridge Rd, Suite 7, Great Barrington
Buzzards Bay Brewing- 98 Horseneck Road, Westport
Cape Ann Brewing Company, Inc. - 27 Commercial St., Gloucester
Cape Ann Brewing Company, Inc. - 11 Rogers St., Gloucester
Cape Cod Beer, Inc. - 1336 Phinney's Lane, Unit 2-2, Hyannis
Cisco Brewers, Inc. - 5 Bartlett Farm Road, Nantucket
Element Brewing Company, LLC - 21 West Main St., Millers Falls
Franklin County Brewing Company, Inc. - 76 Hope St., Greenfield
Jack's Abby Brewing, LLC - 81 Morton St., Framingham
Lefty's Brewing Company - 3 South St., Bernardston
Mass Bay Brewing Company, Inc. - 306 Northern Ave., Boston
Mayflower Brewing Company, LLC - 12 Resnik Road, Plymouth
Mercury Brewing and Distribution Company, Inc. - 23 Hayward St., Ipswich
Mystic Brewery LLC - 174 Williams St., Chelsea
Nashoba Valley Spirits, Ltd. - 92 Wattaquadock Hill Road, Bolton
Paper City Brewing Co., Inc. - 108 Cabot St., Holyoke
Pioneer Brewing Company, LLC - 195 Arnold St., Fiskdale
Sherwood Forest Brewers Limited - 655 Farm Road, Marlboro
South Shore Brewing Co., LLC - 1020 Turnpike St. #3B, Canton
Vineyard Brewing Company, Inc. - 30 Kennebec Ave., Oak Bluffs
Wandering Star Brewing Co., LLC - 11 Gifford St., Pittsfield
Watch City Brewing Company, Inc. - 254-256 Moody St., Waltham
Wormtown Brewing

 

[Cape Brewing]

And here is a pretty good article about it.

http://beernews.org/2011/08/massachusetts-likely-to-reduce-local-brewery-rights-in-coming-year/

 

[iaefebs]

These same politicians will look you in the eye and say they never voted for a tax increase. The large corporations will not feel a thing.

 

[passedpawn]

Wormtown Brewery? Might actually qualify if they are growing their own worms

Anyway, I know I'll come off as argumentative, but don't you think that the "Farmers" license was intended for farmers? I don't get the anger here. Clearly (it seems) this cheap license was meant for the dudes growing grain, hops, etc. Not a guy with a flask and a stir plate. I honestly don't get the indignation. (although your standard licensing fees are ridiculous).

 

[iaefebs]

Wormtown Brewery? Might actually qualify if they are growing their own worms

Anyway, I know I'll come off as argumentative, but don't you think that the "Farmers" license was intended for farmers? I don't get the anger here. Clearly (it seems) this cheap license was meant for the dudes growing grain, hops, etc. Not a guy with a flask and a stir plate. I honestly don't get the indignation. (although your standard licensing fees are ridiculous).

You don't get the idea that this is nothing more than a revenue increase? One that might dissuade a new business from starting up?

 

[passedpawn]

You don't get the idea that this is nothing more than a revenue increase? One that might dissuade a new business from starting up?

No, I don't get that.

My question to you: What do you think "Farmers License" meant?

 

[Cape Brewing]

I understand what the original intent probably was but then why approve the 25 other breweries, including Sam Adams?? Do you think Sam Adams grows anything remotely close to even 1% of their ingredients?

What it was originally intended for and what it has been issued as for years are two different things and now, out of no where they are pulling the rug out from all of the breweries (existing and start up) who have been counting on this license.

Like I keep saying, if they want to stop "abusing" the farmer brewery license they should have 1) phased the change in and 2) they should create a license that doesnt make start-ups impossible.

 

[Cape Brewing]

No, I don't get that.

My question to you: What do you think "Farmers License" meant?

You keep insinuating that the brewers are screwing the system and now its time to pay the piper. Again... Why issue the licenses then? What did these breweries do? MAKE the ABCC issue them? Do you think the ABCC was under the impression that all of the breweries were growing 50% of their ingredients??

 

[Golddiggie]

My question to you: What do you think "Farmers License" meant?

Without a clear definition, no one knew... NOW, the state of Taxyoutosheits has decided to define it and bone many established breweries (and squash new ones) that were using the license. Unless they can come up with something to bridge the gap, I see a lot of breweries moving to other states before their license expires, or suing the state over this.

IF I'm ever fortunate enough to be in a position to open a brewery of any size, it sure as hell won't be in MA... I had made that decision some time ago, but this just makes it a 100% guarantee.

Does anyone else find it ironic how the state where the revolution started, is now one of the higher taxed states?? I do so need to get the F out of this state...

 

[iaefebs]

No, I don't get that.

My question to you: What do you think "Farmers License" meant?

A way for a small business to test the waters before spending $6000 for a license.

My question to you: Why do you think this is even a topic in Massachusetts?

 

[passedpawn]

You keep insinuating that the brewers are screwing the system and now its time to pay the piper. Again... Why issue the licenses then? What did these breweries do? MAKE the ABCC issue them? Do you think the ABCC was under the impression that all of the breweries were growing 50% of their ingredients??

What do you think a farmer's license was for?

 

[passedpawn]

A way for a small business to test the waters before spending $6000 for a license.

My question to you: Why do you think this is even a topic in Massachusetts?

small business? Why do you think they called it a farmer's license?

 

[Cape Brewing]

What do you think a farmer's license was for?

It was to encourage farming.

And? What is your point??

 

[iaefebs]

small business? Why do you think they called it a farmer's license?

Waiting for the answer... Why is this an issue now?

 

[passedpawn]

Waiting for the answer... Why is this an issue now?

How the heck would I know? Clearly the gov'ts, from state to fed, need to increase revenue. They're all broke. Alcohol is an easy target.

I'm sorry that you're surprise that a Farmer's license is meant for farmers.

 

[iaefebs]

How the heck would I know? Clearly the gov'ts, from state to fed, need to increase revenue. They're all broke. Alcohol is an easy target.

I'm sorry that you're surprise that a Farmer's license is meant for farmers.

I never said I was surprised that a farmers license was meant for farmers. I am of the opinion that politicians will be raising any fee they can to offset loss in tax revenue. Income tax is only a portion of all the taxes we pay.

 

[the_bird]

Forget the "farmer" part of the name in the license; for all practical purposes, the license has had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with farming for decades. It's antiquated semantics.

Massachusetts has basically had two licenses for the production of beer, one for craft brewers and one for macro (although I have no idea who in the state operates under the "manufacturing" license). In real world terms, the "farmer" license has been cheap, at least relative to my understanding of what other states would charge. Rather that do what a reasonable state might do (think about raising the fee a little), they've completely changed the real-world definitions of these two licenses. Which has the effect of killing a huge number of small, growing businesses.

The very concept of a "farmer/brewery" is illogical in this state given the impossibility of large-scale commercial grain farming. We ain't the Midwest. There is actually a tiny local maltster (in South Hadley; wonder if THEY had something to do with this... ), but there's hardly any barley grown in the state, and no commercial hops. It's not like Valley Maltsters is in a position to supply Sam Adams.

I have no reason to believe this change was impacted with any nefarious intentions, some group supporting farmers in the state found an old law, but nobody considered the consequences. I'd hope, in the end, they create a "micro/nanobrewery" license that would fit for all of the small breweries being impacted.

People want to be argumentative on this for some reason, but in practical terms the state of Massachusetts us is telling us that small breweries are going to be forced to pay $10k a year to exist. The new interpretation of this law is trying to force farming in the state that simply is not feasible or economic.

THAT doesn't piss y'all off? Lots and lots of good breweries in the state that are going to be hurting.

 

[the_bird]

Oh, and "Bog Iron Brewing"?

Nice, and probably better than "Pig Iron." From the sounds of things, maybe you better leave that one for Paulie.

 

[Cape Brewing]

I'm not a big fan of the name. Like the website says, I was talked into it.

 

[the_bird]

I'm mixed on it. I tend to think if you have to explain it, it's probably not right. But, if you end up moving to 'Lil Rhody, you may want something different anyway.

OchoDrinko, baby!

Has Sam Adams spoken on this issue at all? I'd probably approach them and see if you can get them to take a stand on the issue. It's a pretty minor issue for them in terms of the $$, but they've generally been very supportive of other craft brewers, and they've got a lot more weight than a handful of homebrewers.

 

[Cape Brewing]

The Mass Brewers Guild is meeting with the State Treasurer (ABCC is under the Treasury) to talk about this. Boston Beer Co, from the best I can gather, has been pretty vocal. It's not just $ for them, they will lose the tasting rooms at the brewery. No more tastings with tours.

 

[Homercidal]

I can't speak for Mass. since I've never been there. We got fields all over the place where I live. So my assuming that tying a farm to a brewery is no stretch of the imagination here.

And you didn't mention that there was no verbage on how much you could grow in the original statute. It sounded like you didn't know and were pissed to find it was 50% (the number quoted in the article you posted)

I agree that there should be an alternate license for very small brewers. I'm all for it.

But did you honestly think that sticking a hop plant or two in the backyard of the brewery somehow makes this license valid? That would obviously be a token gesture.

There must be a copy of the original statute available for review. It's very hard to believe that anyone would write up something like that and it so ambiguous as to not determine some kind of amount.

But bottom line, they are not only screwing the small brewers, but basically shutting down all of them. They must realize that. I'm kind of shocked that they don't see the loss in revenue from shutting these places down. It's clear that none of them will be moving to manufacturers licenses based on the requirements.

They should set up a nano brewery license, brewpub license, craft brewery license, etc. A graduated license system to help a business grow. Michigan now has a micro-distillery that can be applied to a microbrewery license for allowing places to start a small distillery if they choose. New Holland has one. I see it as encouraging business. People are going to drink beer or not, as they choose. Having this kind of licensing helps breweries to start up in the state and help the local and state economies.

You should move out here and start up. We could use a brewery in Cadillac. (already one going into Big Rapids, in addition to the one already here, whose beer is not that good...)