Lets Do This - 20 Gallon Concord 3 Vessel HERMS

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augiedoggy said:
as long as you are using the correct type of wire designed for the correct voltage you will be fine with the wires touching on another... if you were going cheap (short runs of 14 awg will work in a control panel but the wire will get warm and could cause issues with the insulation down the road ) I dont recommend skimping just as much as I dont see the point in overkill since it costs more and makes it harder to run the wires...

My control box is 12x12x8 and its very tight with a lot of wires crossing and touching each other....I think we had this discussion before when you were saying you thought you didnt need a bigger box right?
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Yea makes sense I didn't think it would matter, it all fits just tight and I found I put things in the wrong spot the first time, I save room and wiring not needing multiple pids wired up like yours though since it all goes to the rpi.
 
Didnt even think that i could use 14 Gauge for my neutral bus...thats what Kal's doing so it makes my life a lot easier trying to jumper bus's with 10 gauge connectors just doesnt work.

Also didnt realize my ground post's on my enclosure need a bigger diameter ring terminal than what i have? Ill have to goto the store and see if i can find some 10 Gauge ones that are bigger diameter?
 
Successfully wired my 120V->5V 2A power supply to my RPI. Had it set to 5.06V and it wouldnt turn on, im guessing losses after the short USB cable were dropping it too low? Bumped the output pins to 5.17V and it powers on...great! I had hoped to wire up my Onewire sensors today to play with SBE and at least setup my pumps since i dont have my 220V outlet yet...but it will have to wait until tomorrow when i can go get some more jumper cables to plug into my breadboard, lost my old ones in the move and i have no idea where they are....
 
Couple comments on things you mentioned previously.

1. WiFi vs wired Ethernet. Those little USB WiFi adapters that come with RPis generally don't have the best range. If you put it inside your panel and close the lid your wireless range will drop to almost nothing. In my BCS panel I stated out with a WiFi bridge that had an internal antenna. The range was about 5 feet with the front panel closed. I have switched to a different WiFi bridge that allowed me to mount an SMA bulkhead to the panel so the antenna can screw onto the outside of the panel. Works much better now.

2. Power for just the RPi in between brews. I set my panel up so I can plug in an external 5V wall wort while I am not brewing so just the BCS and WiFi bridge are on. This allows me to configure the BCS for my next brew day without having to turn on the main 220V power. I find this feature very convenient.
 
FuzzeWuzze said:
Didnt even think that i could use 14 Gauge for my neutral bus...thats what Kal's doing so it makes my life a lot easier trying to jumper bus's with 10 gauge connectors just doesnt work.

Also didnt realize my ground post's on my enclosure need a bigger diameter ring terminal than what i have? Ill have to goto the store and see if i can find some 10 Gauge ones that are bigger diameter?
Click to expand...

I don't know how easy they are to find but those ring terminals do come in different ring sizes. I'm fortunate enough to have had a huge supply of them for all my wire sizes, but they're out there somewhere. Lowe's and HD seem to just carry the one size from what I've seen.
 
crane said:
Couple comments on things you mentioned previously.

1. WiFi vs wired Ethernet. Those little USB WiFi adapters that come with RPis generally don't have the best range. If you put it inside your panel and close the lid your wireless range will drop to almost nothing. In my BCS panel I stated out with a WiFi bridge that had an internal antenna. The range was about 5 feet with the front panel closed. I have switched to a different WiFi bridge that allowed me to mount an SMA bulkhead to the panel so the antenna can screw onto the outside of the panel. Works much better now.

2. Power for just the RPi in between brews. I set my panel up so I can plug in an external 5V wall wort while I am not brewing so just the BCS and WiFi bridge are on. This allows me to configure the BCS for my next brew day without having to turn on the main 220V power. I find this feature very convenient.
Click to expand...

Yea i have a 120V->5V 2A power supply I got off Amazon for like $6 im mounting inside and it will be fed directly from my power cable coming in before the main power contactor(switch) so it should always be on.

Got the RPI up and running SBE and detecting all 3 temp sensors, took a lot of work but its done. I think i should be able to wrap up the wiring tomorrow on the panel.
 
I would like to first start out saying that i found the most amazing thing in the world i had no idea existed, a wireless soldering iron. Oh lord throw 3 AA batteries in this stupid thing i found at Frys for $20(cant find my current one) and within 10 seconds its super hot and ready to go. Small compared to my normal wired irons and i went to town wiring my XLR jacks, i was totally expecting having to pull them from the case, solder everything and then put them back in but was able to just quickly solder all the connectors in place in about 15 minutes which says alot, you can see how cramped it is in there with all the contactors. No joke one of the best gadgets ive bought this year lol...made my life so much easier...i also fly(or used too but haven't in a few years) Electric RC planes and having this would make fixing things offsite or even at home WAY easier.

Got my panel mostly wired, got the Elsinore setup more or less..all the probes are reading, and i was able to successfully setup and turn on my switches for my pump plugs, i have no power going into them because its wired up off my 240V plug...but i can see the LED's come on and hear the relays clicking so im confident it will work. For now i have a rigged 120V cable i wired directly into the 120V-5V power supply for testing, so ill have to pull that out and wire it to my main power cable in as well...Oh and wire in the hot line for the LED's...

Overall good night, didnt finish like i hoped but got a lot done and really just need to wire in the 240V outlets from the contactors and rewire the 120V->5V as i said above and im ready..contacting the cheapest Electrician quote i got to hopefully get the outlet installed soon.

The wiring isnt too bad so far, i have them all routed through zipties that arent pulled tight yet so it will clean up a bit more when i get to that point. Also need to shorten up the cables going into the Relay board from the 120V socket, it was the last thing i did and wanted to test it before going to bed so just kept them long and shoved the thing in there to test it so thats why theres a big clusterfk of wires down there. Also hope i like the positioning of my Breadboard, all the cheap POS's lost all their stickiness on the back even though they had the film cover on them and were in a bag this entire time...so i JB welded the damn thing to the box...not going anywhere now :D The power comes in the bottom of the left most relay, and comes out and over to the other two relays that feed downwards towards the plug, seems to be a good flow so far since i can wire my plug hot's directly onto the first contactor to save wiring.
2015-09-08%2000.11.26.jpg


Also the wifi seems to work fine in the enclosure? It only has 2 bars, but i can access it via my laptop no problem and it seems to be very responsive...keeping it setup such that i can modify the panel and do wired if required. This is proof you can build an Elsinore in a 10x10x5 box :D I wanted to make it as compact as possible so i have room to hang it on my wall near the outlet.
 
Picked up a wireless soldering iron a few years back on a whim cause the store was actually out of ones you plug in. Love the thing. It takes a couple seconds to get hot but if you get your work setup before hand you can blast through what you need to solder.


Panel is looking good!
 
Electrician coming tommorrow @ 8am...hope to be able to finish my box while hes here so its ready to test. Plan is to hopefully do my first batch this next weekend.
 
FuzzeWuzze said:
Electrician coming tommorrow @ 8am...hope to be able to finish my box while hes here so its ready to test. Plan is to hopefully do my first batch this next weekend.
Click to expand...

That's pretty sweet! What do you plan on brewing?
 
QuinnR said:
That's pretty sweet! What do you plan on brewing?
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It works out pretty well actually, the buddy who did all 12 welds for me for free wants me to brew a Ginger beer i do for my wife for his wifes birthday coming up.

It will be an easy starting recipe because its very light on malt, and gets a lot of its fermentables from honey. So ill still have to go through the mashing process but if something goes horribly wrong on brew day i'm only out probably $10 in 2 row for a 10 gallon batch(5 for my wife!).

I'll of course be doing a mock batch with some water sometime this week to play with the StrangeBrew elsinore software, make sure my probes are functioning, pumps are functioning, theres no leaks, that the elements work and ramp up properly etc. As part of that mock setup i'll be cutting my giant 50' roll of ultra clear Silicone i got from BobbyM @ BrewHardware and putting on my camlock ends once i know how long things need to be so i dont end up with hoses that are too long for the task.

I already did some basic leak tests on my herms coil but I think when I do it next time I'll put some dye in the water being pumped through so I can more easily spot leaks into the surrounding herms water.

I think I stole the recipe from here on HBT, it won like 3rd place in some previous HBT competition if you want to find the recipe.
 
hah, i've posted in here before but i just read where you were from.

I moved to Sherwood probably 6 months ago now? and I work in Newberg.... hilarious.

Looking good sir!
 
Rivenin said:
hah, i've posted in here before but i just read where you were from.

I moved to Sherwood probably 6 months ago now? and I work in Newberg.... hilarious.

Looking good sir!
Click to expand...

Ha, ill have to have you out some time then when this damn thing actually makes beer!:mug:

Anyways, the Electrician came and installed the outlet right where i need it and now i have an inspector coming some day to take a look at it. Need to finish up my panel, but lucky me ive come down with a cold from work...Im hoping it goes away in a day and i can get back to finishing my panel to brew this weekend.
 
FuzzeWuzze said:
Electrician coming tommorrow @ 8am...hope to be able to finish my box while hes here so its ready to test. Plan is to hopefully do my first batch this next weekend.
Click to expand...

Hey FuzzeWuzze, looks like your getting there on your build! That's great! I have a guy coming this Saturday to give me a quote on running the 240v line and installing a breaker in the panel in my garage. I hope he gives me a fair price! Good Luck on your first brew!

John
 
Go figure, found out i need some Red ring connectors as well for the 22AWG wire ..Ill have to get those tommorrow to plug my RPI into the SSR input.

Also glad i double checked everything when i took my plate out, i had the SSR wired backwards(120V into the 3-32V input control pin)...im guessing that would have caused magic smoke :)
 
FuzzeWuzze said:
Also glad i double checked everything when i took my plate out, i had the SSR wired backwards(120V into the 3-32V input control pin)...im guessing that would have caused magic smoke :)
Click to expand...

i started rewiring part of my brewing setup when i was still on 2 120v elements, so i had 2 SSRs... i was doing this on new years eve as well, so i started with a beer... bad idea.

i accidentally put both of the 120v power legs onto each side of the SSR where it should have had one 120v load and the other going to the element... Blew the damn thing across the room the next day when i was going to brew.

Although... in my idiotness, i was cleaning up the wires and having them running through a back plate, so i apparently lost track :drunk: thank god for GFCI! Now i do all my wiring completely sober and THEN congratulate myself with a beer... haha

but then again, that was the ONE time i didn't double check my work and follow wires... and the last time!
 
BrunDog said:
When I wired my panel, I sat with schematic in hand and a highlighter. As I placed wires, I marked the wire with the highlighter. This forced me to work on one wire at a time and track each connection. YMMV.

-BD
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This would be me. I hate electrical and would be double and triple checking every wire I connected.
 
BrunDog said:
When I wired my panel, I sat with schematic in hand and a highlighter. As I placed wires, I marked the wire with the highlighter. This forced me to work on one wire at a time and track each connection. YMMV.

-BD
Click to expand...

I did the same exact then, but went a step further. After wiring everything I took another printed copy and ohmed out every connection marking each one off the schematic once I verified it was connected correctly.
 
I wired everything to the door one wire at a time, running it from its source (usually one of the terminal blocks) to measure and cut, but then I left everything loose on that end and re-routed every wire to make sure it all went cleanly and layered right while I bundled things. I did a lot of testing with my ohmmeter to figure out which end of one wire went to which end dangling over the side, but it helped me keep track of everything in the end.
 
Decided to take a bit of a break from the electronics tonight, spent a bit of time in Sketchup putting together a grain mill enclosure because..why not? Its about $13 in lumber from Home Depot, a few 8 foot 2x4's and one 4x8 1/8" hardboard to enclose it all and create the hopper. Overall its about 28" tall, 17" square, the hopper is about 48 degree's from what Sketchup says and the hopper will be about ~1050 cubic inches, by what i can tell from another post on HBT should give me about 25# of grain capacity. Need to source a motor to use on it still, i have good low rpm drill i got from harbor freight i used on my Corona mill i may be able to squeeze in if i make it a tad wider. I set it up to go around one of my bigger 8 gallon brewcraft buckets, but i may see how small i can get it if I make one for a 5 gal homer bucket. I got a Cereal Killer, so for now ill just use their base and crush into a homer bucket until i get around to building this thing(probably after my first brew is on its way). Also note that the front will have a hardboard cover on some cheap hinges i have laying around probably, i just removed it for the image otherwise it looks pretty boring!

GrainMill.png

GrainMill2.png


Also a buddy came over today and helped a ton, was able to put on the sight glass stickers way faster having one person fill and one person stick them on..did both remaining vessels in about an hour when i spent like 2 just doing one myself. Also was good having a second set of eyes on cutting the silicone tube for the hoses to make sure i wasnt missing anything.

2015-09-19.jpg


Tomorrow i put the last few wires together for my panel and plug it in very carefully. Im thinking ill turn the breaker off, plug it in and turn the enclosures main power switch to on, then turn the breaker on from across the garage in case something pops, not expecting it by any means but why not?

Also tomorrow i need to build my 20' CFC, already got the copper from HD but didnt like the idea of buying a big 50' hose and chopping it so im going to look if ACE has 25" hose tomorrow.
 
Definitely make sure you check that the panel itself as well as the door are connected to ground with a multimeter before powering it on.

I usually go with a similar approach by powering on an untested device farther upstream like what you plan to do by turning the panel power on then the breaker across the room. Last month I had a tantalum capacitor blow up on a new circuit board I designed. I was glad I plugged the power supply to the board before plugging the power supply to the wall. If I had done it the other way around my hand would have been right next to the cap when it blew.
 
Looking awesome! Those sight gauges are looking a little precarious there though. Are you planning to secure the tops with anything? I used some 1/4-20 stainless eye bolts to secure mine that have worked out pretty well. Here's a pic of one.

Best of luck with the rest of the build. :mug:

20140326_193657.jpg
 
Sight gauges are one thing I have overlooked so far on my build. I suppose they do make things easier, eh?
 
SilverZero said:
Sight gauges are one thing I have overlooked so far on my build. I suppose they do make things easier, eh?
Click to expand...

Yeah, makes it a lot easier to nail your volumes and not having any guesswork and what not. This go around I'm going to try just etching on the inside though to see how it goes.
 
SilverZero said:
Sight gauges are one thing I have overlooked so far on my build. I suppose they do make things easier, eh?
Click to expand...

Even more so if you are fly sparging while you lauter to the brew kettle. It makes it easy to get your flows matching for input sparge water and exit into the bk, just watch the mash tun gauge until it stops moving.
 
Ugh so close, but its getting late and im frustrated lol..

Was plugging in the last thing that needed to go back in, the 120V double outlet, wired them up to the 2 channel relay like i have for my brewpi a million times, broke the tab so each hot is isolated and somehow there is continuity between the two hot terminals when i check with my multimeter...i checked my ring connnectors they are no where near touching and the tab is clearly broken with a gap...

Is it possible the stupid outlet is broken? I did bend one of the hot terminals a bit hard when i was trying to twist the tab off..i wonder if i shorted them together somehow? I dont see how they could possibly be wired together through the relay board i double checked all those connections...

Time to have a beer and think about it some more, maybe tomorrow ill just take the entire stupid socket out and test just the hot terminals and see if its the socket or what the hell is going on.
 
So it ended up being how i had the relay wired, got that fixed.

Bigger problem now im hoping someone can help with, although i think i have an idea ...

I plug in my box, and turn on the breaker and it immediately trips. Even with the main power toggle off.

Then i realized something i remember happening when the electrician was installing the outlet. Basically after he got it all wired up he pulled the breaker and it tripped immediately even with nothing plugged in, so he repulled the ground and neutral wires figuring maybe something got screwed up...happened again. After some more debug he determined that on the socket on the Neutral pin there was a long metal bit that seemed to go to ground...after clipping that metal bit off he was able to successfully turn the breaker on and it didnt trip. I asked why and he mentioned he thinks its because some laundry machines only use 3 prong cables? He didnt seem entirely positive about the statement now that i think about it, but the power seemed to be on and working without throwing the breaker so i didnt think about it.

I always read these posts about the breaker tripping without the box even turned on and seem to recall it almost always has something to do with the neutral bonding in the breaker box? My question for those in the know, if he wired something "wrong" in the main panel would it make sense that he would have had to pull that metal bit off the socket?

I realize its also possible my box is just miswired somehow? I need to look into that tomorrow...but seems weird that it could happen without the power switch even being on. To make sure i wired the switch right its a two position switch, one side i wired in one of the Hot lines, and out the other side it goes back to one side of the main power contactor coil, the other side of the switch(off) is totally bare with no wires at all that no power would get through the main contactor..but is that tripping the breaker!? So many questions!
 
Figured it out after searching and finding a post on Kal's site, the electrician wired the ground and neutral wrong on the socket.

That means the metal bit he cut off was a grounding bar and it looks like it went to the front metal face of the socket...i think ill call them to complain tommorrow and see if they will come give me a new socket.

But then again they are only $8.50 at Homedepot, so maybe ill just go get my own or tell them to give me $8.50 off my bill lol...

Powers on, but as expected the Wifi is a bit hit or miss so ill work on getting Cat5 to it somehow tommorrow...not sure how yet...i still have some jacks and crimper..i may go super ghetto and just make a small hole for a ethernet cable, then push it through and crimp on new ends on both sides and use a cheap 50 cent coupler to disconnect it from the main cable if the panel ever needs to move.

Also my probes arent being detected so i need to check my RPI tomorrow to see what is wrong with the wiring.
 
FuzzeWuzze said:
Figured it out after searching and finding a post on Kal's site, the electrician wired the ground and neutral wrong on the socket.

That means the metal bit he cut off was a grounding bar and it looks like it went to the front metal face of the socket...i think ill call them to complain tommorrow and see if they will come give me a new socket.

But then again they are only $8.50 at Homedepot, so maybe ill just go get my own or tell them to give me $8.50 off my bill lol...
Click to expand...

They probably charged you a lot more than $8.50 for that socket, I'd get them back out to fix their screwup... or reduce your bill by $50 if not more
 

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