Legalities of bartering with home brew

[olllllo]

I think the balance of the people responding today are making arguments as an exercise. That's fine. I see the fun/value in that.

My comment about getting a definitive answer from your DLLC (and for arguments sake, it's definitive unless someone is planning a series of trial cases) is directed at people that have made their mind up already and think they have beat the system by some sort of loophole or logic bomb.

 

[o4_srt]

I think the balance of the people responding today are making arguments as an exercise. That's fine. I see the fun/value in that.

My comment about getting a definitive answer from your DLLC (and for arguments sake, it's definitive unless someone is planning a series of trial cases) is directed at people that have made their mind up already and think they have beat the system by some sort of loophole or logic bomb.

Hah! I witnessed someone try to beat the system last night. 10 pm, the diner next to my employer goes up in flames. Watched the whole thing in the clock.

10 am today: owner is arraigned on 2 counts of arson, endangerment, and conspiracy charges.

It was a helluva show last night.

 

[Airborneguy]

(and for arguments sake, it's definitive unless someone is planning a series of trial cases)

Agreed (to all), but this in particular.

For arguments sake, in my mind, it is definitive if you are doing something that gives a police officer or other law enforcement official probable cause to affect an arrest. This is my area of expertise, and this is what I hope to help someone avoid. Whatever happens after that just depends on how much disposable income you have anyway

 

[Pilgarlic]

Do any of the federal laws pertaining to the distribution or taxation of beer involve arrest? All I've seen are civil penalties of fines, though I confess to not having read them all.

 

[Airborneguy]

If the Feds arrested someone in regards to selling homebrew, it would be for tax evasion. The vast majority of Federal criminal law deals with tax evasion or conspiracy. I don't see that happening except in extreme cases.

Most likely, any enforcement would be at the state/local level and would depend on the state laws. Here in NY, it would be for selling untaxed alcohol, which can be a misdemeanor, and likely some other charges like unlicensed sale, illegal premise, unlicensed cabaret, etc.

Here's the link to the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board page dealing with enforcement:

http://ypdcrime.com/abc/article10.htm

Note that "Illicit Alcohol" is defined as any alcohol that requires payment of a tax under federal law, aka, any alcohol manufactured for sale. Homebrew, once sold, becomes illicit alcohol in NYS. The penalty is a misdemeanor for sale and another for possession. So I was actually wrong about the accepting party; they get charged also.

The point of the federal law is to set a maximum for what states can allow, but all can strengthen the law if they see fit (obviously, considering it is completely illegal in 2 states still).

 

[klyph]

The point of the federal law is to generate revenue.

Fixed that for ya

 

[Airborneguy]

You pay taxes on your homebrew?

 

[klyph]

The farmer who grows the ingredients is taxed. The distributor who wholesales them is taxed. The store that sells them to me is taxed. In order to make the money to buy them, I am taxed. If I break any of the myriad of regulations that they set forth, I am HEAVILY taxed, and if I can't pay the taxes, I go to jail.

Oh beautiful for spacious skies, for amber waves of grain...

 

[beaksnbeer]

Technically its not alcohol til it ferments. Is that a "grey area"

 

[klyph]

Yeah, you can sell wort if you want to, but you'll never make any money off of it.

 

[Dave Richkas]

Well, I hate to be a naysayer, but the IRS considers bartering to be a form of income: http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html

So, if you barter with homebrew and receive a service or goods with value, then you've sold homebrew.

Be careful, and be smart!

See the second sentence! If not part of a formal bartering organization you are fine it appears.