Large Scale (200L+) Fermenters: Temperature Control?

[br3ds0x]

I am trying to get some information on fermenters (200l or more capacity) for a business plan I am putting together. In doing research, I've found some that are heating/cooling temperature controlled, however I have not been able to find these in sizes any larger than about 20 gallons.

When looking at the Braumeister 240L fermenter for example (http://morebeer.com/products/braumeister-240l-fermenter.html?a_aid=homebrewing), it states that it is equipped with a jacket that covers the tank, which you can then hook up to a glycol cooler for temperature control. I would assume I would need a glycol cooler for each fermenter, so that drastically increases the price. Are there other companies that make temperature controlled fermenters that I am missing?

 

[ODI3]

Here is a random image and desc of a glycol cooled fermentation tank:

http://www.hellopro.co.uk/D_C_NORRI...-noprofil-2002130-46037-0-1-1-fr-societe.html

Basically, its an extra sleeve that surrounds the whole kettle that you can pump glycol through to actively manage temperature. It is not removable.

Seperate pump for each cooler? If you were fermenting them all at same temp, you could put the fermenters in series and just have one pump for the whole system?

 

[mattd2]

Here is a drawing of a jacket conical by Stout tanks $3249 - http://conical-fermenter.com/products/2-bbl-systems/

Basically the jacket is the space that cooling gylcol can be pumped through to keep the tank cool. Depending on the size of glycol unit you purchase it can be used for multiple fermenters.
My suggestion is to check out if there are any Brewery consultants in your area and get in contact with one - they will be able to explain all these, and more, points to you.
Not to sound like a dick or anything - but if you don't know what a jacketed fermenter is then you do need some advice before putting together a business plan for a new brewery. In the end the amount of money you spend on a consultant will likely be less than the amount you waste working things out by yourself.
Good luck.

 

[mattd2]

Seperate pump for each cooler? If you were fermenting them all at same temp, you could put the fermenters in series and just have one pump for the whole system?

Generally the glycol would be kept at a much lower temp that the required fermentation temperature and pumped round a ring main, each fermenter would then take off glycol as it is required to cool. if you are using glycol at temperatures that water will have no issues, then there is no reason to use glycol (it would actually be worse as gycol solutions have a lower heat capacity)

 

[HopHouse]

I was listening to a podcast on nano breweries the other day and heard a guy talking about he approached this issue.

He could only afford plastic conicals that had no jackets or cooling capabilities built in. His solution was to have stainless steel boxes built around the fermenters. He insulated the insides using insulation board from home supply stores and then fit each fermentation box with an 8000 BTU window air conditioning unit (the output rating was calculated based on the size of his box... Smaller fermentation space would require less output). The boxes are then controlled with digital units like Ranco, Johnson, etc. He said he is able to control temps just the same as doing it at home via a refrigerator but obviously each vessel has its own control and space. I suppose could use heat lamps, etc to warm the space as well.

 

[br3ds0x]

Thanks for the replies. I know I'm definitely still in the learning stages of brewing, but figure the best way to learn more is to keep diving in.

So say you were going to have 5 fermenters, in an open room that was kept at 75 degrees. If you wanted to keep the fermenters at say 65, you could (assuming the pump was big enough) use the one pump to cool all the fermenters. However, say you were doing a lager in one and needed a lower temp, then you would need an additional pump.

Does this make sense?

 

[mattd2]

Thanks for the replies. I know I'm definitely still in the learning stages of brewing, but figure the best way to learn more is to keep diving in.

So say you were going to have 5 fermenters, in an open room that was kept at 75 degrees. If you wanted to keep the fermenters at say 65, you could (assuming the pump was big enough) use the one pump to cool all the fermenters. However, say you were doing a lager in one and needed a lower temp, then you would need an additional pump.

Does this make sense?

Generally you would correctly size a glycol chiller with respects to a few factors (fermenter size, brewing schedule, etc.). You should be able to cool all 5 fermenters using 1 unit. The glycol will be cooled well below the fermentation temp, then pumped around a circuit and back to the resevour. On that circuit will be 5 take-offs that will have control valves - when a fermenter's temp rises above the set point the valve will open and cool the fermenter back down untill the lower set point is reached and the valve closes.
When sizing remember that it is more than likely that only 1 or 2 fermenters will be at peak fermentation at any one time.
Seriously look into a brewery consultant, they have done all this before and will avoid you making some basic mistakes.
More than likely if you called one up they would say

Roughly you want make xx bbls per year = you need this and this and this. And that will cost you $xx.xx and you will need a space of xx sq.ft - rough estimate you need $1,000,000.00... think about that and get back to me if you still want to do it

Yes you can DIY and save a fair bit of capital, but you will need the knowledge. Maybe another way to get some useful info is to talk to another brewery in the area and see if they will let you have a peak around what a microbrewery actually looks like.

 

[nanzhao]

Do you have a link to this episode and podcast?
I need to build something very similar and am looking for ideas.

Thanks,
Joe