Lager yeast starter questions

[beerisyummy]

Hello gang,

I've recently gotten back into home brewing after about two decades hiatus (at the urging of my son, who inherited his father's taste for beer and is now old enough to drink!). We've done 16 extract batches and am going to go for my first lager (an Oktoberfest kit), also extract for now. I have the small chest freezer and the temp controller will be installed shortly.

My primary sources for information are this and other online forums, and an old copy of Miller (helps me feel connected to my home brewing history!)

I was very convinced by Kevin Swan's article "Wort Canning to Save Time" on this site. So convinced that I ran out and bought a pressure canner and made a batch. For ales, I make a quart starter (wort is about 1.040). Seems to ferment in about one day, so I do it two days in advance, swirl and dump. Every batch I've done this way has taken off like a rocket, usually within 6-8 hours.

Now to adapt this technique to lagers, here are my questions.

1. I'm planning on a half gallon starter. I've read here of some folks using a gallon; I get the "more is better" part but Miller says two pints, so I'm thinking I'll be fine. But on this topic: Miller says to step it up, fermenting the first pint (or quart in my case) and then adding the second. Only one poster on the threads I've read here recommends the step-up, everyone else either doesn't do it or doesn't mention it. Thoughts pro and con?

2. Posters seem nonchalant about fermentation temp for the yeast starter, some say room temp is fine, some like it cooler. My gut says go with a cool temp closer to pitching temp. If so, how much time should I allow? Anything else about this I should look at before I leap?

3. A lot of folks talk about decanting the starter wort off the yeast. Why do this? Seems to me it might be a good idea if you ferment a large starter at room temp, to minimize the possibility of off-flavors, or not-to-style flavors. If fermenting cool, why not just swirl and dump like I do with ale starters? (In other words why waste the beer? )

TIA everyone.

 

[estricklin]

The step starters are usually done by those who do not have a large enough vessel to get enough cell growth by the volume the normally use.

I've certainly done starters at fermentation temps, (just by setting them in along with other beers that were fermenting) but mostly just do that at room. If your doing a decent size starter it's a good idea to decant, thus I don't believe you'll see any flavor impact from doing that starter at room temp. If you want to decant be sure and start several days in advance, and give it time to cold crash out, otherwise just swirl and dump the whole thing.

Good luck! Lagers aren't voo doo, if you can do an ale you can do a lager.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

1. Use a yeast calculator like YeastCalc or Mr. Malty. These will tell you how big a starter and/or how to step it. Lagers need a lot of yeast.

2. The primary purpose of a starter is to grow yeast. Temp is not that critical. For smaller starters, any flavors will get lost in the volume of wort. However, decanting will eliminate that altogether which leads to ...

3. Decanting is a good idea for large starters which may start to approach a significant percentage of your total wort. Just wait for the starter to finish and then throw it in the fridge overnight (or longer depending on the yeast). During brew day, take it out of the fridge, pour off the clear wort, swirl the yeast up and leave it to warm up while you brew. It should be at pitching temp by the time the wort is ready.

 

[kombat]

As the others mentioned, use a calculator to determine an appropriate starter size. Personally, I wouldn't even consider making anything less than 5 liters for a lager. Ferment it at room temperature - you're trying to make yeast, not beer.

Regarding decanting, the first time I made a lager (an Oktoberfest, coincidentally), I learned why you should decant. I brewed a 5 gallon batch and after chilling, racked it into my 6.5 gallon carboy. I used my Fizz-X stirring rod on a drill to whip up a good deal of foam and aerate the wort. The foam actually came all the way up to the mouth of the carboy.

Then I started pouring in my 5 liters of starter.

The carboy quickly began overflowing foam and yeast, even before I could get half the starter poured in.

Lesson learned: Decant your starter because 5 liters is a nontrivial volume of liquid. Also, since you're fermenting a lager yeast starter at room temp, the "spent" wort doesn't taste great, and is perceptible in the finished beer.

Regarding the wort canning, a helpful tip: Prepare the starter wort at 2x the strength (i.e., 1.080). Then when preparing a starter, dilute the wort 50/50 with water. It makes your jars of starter wort go farther.

 

[JBOGAN]

Is this starter being done with a stir plate?

 

[beerisyummy]

Is this starter being done with a stir plate?

Nope only just learned about stir plates in fact, never owned/used 'em.

 

[beerisyummy]

Regarding the wort canning, a helpful tip: Prepare the starter wort at 2x the strength (i.e., 1.080). Then when preparing a starter, dilute the wort 50/50 with water. It makes your jars of starter wort go farther.[/QUOTE]


WHAT A GREAT IDEA!!!

 

[beerisyummy]

.... so far I'm hearing:
1. BIG starter;
2. Room temp;
3. Decant.
Thanks for the thoughts!

 

[catdaddy66]

Subscribed!