Lager fermentation with W34/70

[Alexy]

Hi!

Since this is my first post I'd like to say Hi! to everyone! I've been reading this forum for months and found a lot of useful stuff here. Thank you for that!

I need your help to make sure I'm doing my first lager fermentation right. So far I got 10 top fermentation batches on my record. This time I decided to do 1.053 Munich Dunkel with Saflager W34/70 dry yeast.

Steps I did so far:
- chilled wort to 51F and aerated by pouring from my boiling pot to fermentor back and forth several times
- rehydrated 2,5 pack of W34/70 (amount as per Mr.Malty calc) and pitched into the wort
- I did FFT using the remaining 0,5 W34/70 pack and some leftover wort - FG I got is 1.012
- main batch took 16hrs to develop krausen and to start bubbling, it fermented at 50F in my fermentation fridge (accurate temp since I got probe submersed in the beer)
- 5 days into fermentation I pulled a sample and got 1.020 reading - this is 80% done fermentation comparing to FFT's FG result. Bubbling was still quite active but krausen started slightly to decline
- so on the 5th day I ramp my controller up to 66F and used brewing belt to heat the beer up - this is to do diacetyl rest
- it's 2nd day now at 66F, bubbling is now very slow and krausen is minimal - clearly sugars are running out

My question is - did I do the diacetyl rest right and at a good moment? I thought lager fermentation will be longer and I got somewhat ale timings so far... Any suggestions you could give me for the next time?

Thanks, and again I really appreciate your experience guys!

 

[JonM]

Your method looks spot on. Your diacetyl rest was at the right time and everything else looks great.

 

[STMF]

Fermentation times varies and depends on a lot of factors.
You did areate and pitch a good amount of healthy yeasts, 2 important factors.

I usually make a "vitality starter" at the beginning of the brew day and pitch it when the wort is cooled. My normal times to reach FG is

Ale: 4 days
Lager: 8-10 days.

This is with pretty good temperature control and with an OG 1.055 or less. I usually don't make high OG beers.

Since you raised the temperature after five days, it seems absolutly possible that your fermentation is done. Rasing the temperature at 80% is good in my book and the yeast will clean up while it is fermenting the last sugars.

 

[Alexy]

JonM, STMF - thanks a lot guys! I will wait 2-3 more days, pull a sample and check for any byproducts aroma - if it's clear I'll go ahead and keg it for lagering.

 

[Steveruch]

I've never needed a D-rest with S-34/70.

 

[FVillatoro]

I have used W-34/70 and raised the temp to 65 on a Cream Ale and detected no diacetyl.
On my Vienna Lagers I also raised to mid 60s and no diacetyl.

 

[Steveruch]

I have used W-34/70 and raised the temp to 65 on a Cream Ale and detected no diacetyl.
On my Vienna Lagers I also raised to mid 60s and no diacetyl.

Two weeks ago I bottled a vienna done with W-34/70; it didn't need a D-rest.

 

[FVillatoro]

Two weeks ago I bottled a vienna done with W-34/70; it didn't need a D-rest.

I don't taste diacetyl even when sampling hydrometer samples which are in the mid 50s - now that you mention it.

Even when I have re-pitched this yeast there is no signs of diacetyl.

Currently I am fermenting a Munich Dunkel with 2nd gen, but I will be re-pitching a 3rd gen to see if the diacetyl becomes more prominent.

Now to figure out what to brew next!

 

[Alexy]

I think you are right this strain is not giving much diacetyl (still, I did D-rest just to be on the safe side). I've transferred my Dunkel for lagering yesterday and it fermented really clean. Will repitch over the weekend and let you know here how the 2nd gen is performing.

There was no sulfur smell during fermentation neither - W34/70 can behave really nice

 

[FVillatoro]

I think you are right this strain is not giving much diacetyl (still, I did D-rest just to be on the safe side). I've transferred my Dunkel for lagering yesterday and it fermented really clean. Will repitch over the weekend and let you know here how the 2nd gen is performing.

There was no sulfur smell during fermentation neither - W34/70 can behave really nice

Yup! So far from my experiences with W-34/70 is that:

It's cheap enough to stock up a few packs.

Don't need a HUGE starter the first time.

Has proven to be very forgivable, even if you don't have fermentation control to keep it into the recommended 53-59 degrees.

It ferments pretty fast and produces no/little diacetyl or sulfur (in my experiences).

Drops pretty fast & compacts tighter than US-05 - almost like a British strain.

This will probably replace US-05 as my dry-yeast house strain for whenever I want a clean lager or American Pale Ale/IPA/whatever.

This is my Vienna Lager that I did not fine with gelatin, and it cleared right up:

 

[gordonmonaghan]

That Vienna Lager looks beautiful.

 

[Patrick87]

34/70 has been great for me so far. I've brewed four batches with it so far. I do get some sulfur smell coming from the air lock towards the end of fermentation, though. A little on kegging-day, too. The sulfur smell is gone by the time I tap the keg 3-4 days later, though.

 

[tzaccario]

I used 34/70 in my Oktoberfest and loved it. 52-55F the entire time, warmed up only on the day before I transferred it to the keg. Such a great clean/crisp flavor. I will be using it again for my Fizzy Blonde brew coming up.

 

[JonM]

Heh - that's pretty much exactly what I did this winter. Brewed an Oktoberfest with 34/70, then used it again in Yooper's Fizzy Yellow Beer, which is currently lagering.

 

[Alexy]

As promised I'm coming back with some updates on how W34/70 2nd gen is performing. And again, I need you advice folks

So I brewed a 1.045 German Pils (4.75 gal of wort), chilled it to 50F and added rinsed slurry which I collected 5 days earlier (slurry was slowly heated to 50-55F after I pulled it out of my fridge). I had like ~0.1qt of healthy white yeast layer plus ~0.2qt of darker bottom layer of trub/yeast mix at the bottom.

Now, 4 days and 18 hours later there is still no sign of active fermentation (unlike I had with the 1st gen), just checked gravity and we are at 1.037. I'm fermenting at 50F.

I don't know if what I see on top is a krausen since this reminds me the foam I had after pouring the wort back and forth several times between my fermenter and brew kettle. Is it possible it is still there after so many days?

Beer tastes normal, smell nice and is a bit cloudy (yeast in suspension?) - the wort itself was not cloudy at all at the beginning. There is also a white layer on top of trub - so there are some yeasts at the bottom. What worries me is this very slow progress of fermentation. Totally different than the first one and I thought with a healthy slurry it should be faster. Maybe I managed to screw up rinsing and did not save enough yeast cells?

Should I just RDWHAHB?

Some pics:

 

[Alexy]

Ok, so it was unnecessary panic This foam is growing - it is over 1 inch already.

Still, it would be great to hear from you why it took 5 days on a healthy slurry...

 

[STMF]

Ok, so it was unnecessary panic This foam is growing - it is over 1 inch already.

Still, it would be great to hear from you why it took 5 days on a healthy slurry...

Well, with no starter and at 50F it can take some time. It's not that strange.

 

[Sadu]

I love this yeast. So far I have made maybe 15 lager batches (pilsner, helles, vienna lager, maerzen, doppelbock, schwarzbier) all repitching from one pack of yeast. The last few batches coming out have been amongst the best beers I have ever had.

I ferment at 50f/10c and always ramp up to 60-70ish for 5 days once the krauesen starts dropping. Not because I have had diacetyl problems, just because it doesn't hurt to. I do find that a good period of lagering improves the flavours, and the clarity is super good even without gelatin.

Here's the schwarzbier I cracked open tonight - brewed 3 months ago with 34/70, really really good..

 

[Alexy]

Well, with no starter and at 50F it can take some time. It's not that strange.

Hmm, I thought that repitchig a fresh slurry (5 days since previous fermentation was finished) does not require a starter. Anyway, I'll do at least vitality starter the next time on a brew day.

 

[STMF]

Hmm, I thought that repitchig a fresh slurry (5 days since previous fermentation was finished) does not require a starter. Anyway, I'll do at least vitality starter the next time on a brew day.

It is not required by any means. You obviously had fermentation going well before 5 days since it was down to 1.037 after 4½. That is probably around 20-25% of your total fermentation done.

Im just saying that when pitching yeast slurry and fermenting at 50F it is normal that things move abit slower. Just because there is not much visual sign of fermentation, does not mean that it's not happening. Especially lager yeast at cold temperature.

Im not sure how you areated and if you used any yeast nutrition but that can also affect how the fermentation is going.

Im sure the beer will be great

 

[estricklin]

Yup! So far from my experiences with W-34/70 is that:

It's cheap enough to stock up a few packs.

Don't need a HUGE starter the first time.

Has proven to be very forgivable, even if you don't have fermentation control to keep it into the recommended 53-59 degrees.

It ferments pretty fast and produces no/little diacetyl or sulfur (in my experiences).

Drops pretty fast & compacts tighter than US-05 - almost like a British strain.

This will probably replace US-05 as my dry-yeast house strain for whenever I want a clean lager or American Pale Ale/IPA/whatever.

This is my Vienna Lager that I did not fine with gelatin, and it cleared right up:

Nice photo. I've had similar experiences with this yeast as well. I even use it at warmer temps with good results.

I don't bother with D-rests anymore with my lagers, I found out I can easily get away without doing them and that fits my laziness.

 

[Alexy]

ok, thanks STMF!

(I aerate all my batches by pouring wort back and forth several times - I know, it's time to invest in a decent O2 system. I used no nutrition).

 

[FVillatoro]

I love this yeast. So far I have made maybe 15 lager batches (pilsner, helles, vienna lager, maerzen, doppelbock, schwarzbier) all repitching from one pack of yeast. The last few batches coming out have been amongst the best beers I have ever had.

I ferment at 50f/10c and always ramp up to 60-70ish for 5 days once the krauesen starts dropping. Not because I have had diacetyl problems, just because it doesn't hurt to. I do find that a good period of lagering improves the flavours, and the clarity is super good even without gelatin.

Here's the schwarzbier I cracked open tonight - brewed 3 months ago with 34/70, really really good..

Lovely picture, but how DARE YOU pour under the 0.5L line on that glass?! Please do not make that mistake again!

I was thinking of brewing a Schwarzbier today myself, but weather is not permitting and I am currently cold crashing a Munich Dunkel in my chamber - next Friday most likely.

Adding a little more data for this yeast (2nd repitch), my Dunkel went from 1.053OG down to 1.014 in only 5 days @ 53-55 degrees! That's pretty fast and impressive considering that I only had Munich and Vienna Malts on the bill and no pilsner for diastatic power contribution.
And it finished at 1.013 (1.012 being the target) the next time I tested 4 days after the 1.014FG reading. 75% apparent attenuation on this one.

Great yeast! This has got to be one of the best dry-yeast strains out there.