lack of body???

[simonj]

Hi all,
I need help!!! I've just started AG brewing after 2 years of partial mashing. the chemical taste has dissapeared (see other thread), however the beer seems to lack body - both bottled and cask versions. Can anyone tell me what would contribute to this? the mashing & sparging temps were ok, and the SG readings were all ok.

help please......
thanks
simon

 

[Kaiser]

Can anyone tell me what would contribute to this? the mashing & sparging temps were ok, and the SG readings were all ok.

mash temp AND time matter. What did your mash schedule look like?

Kai

 

[simonj]

my mash was approx 66degrees C, mashed for 2 hours. sparge temp was between 75 and 80degrees C.

Is two hours too long to mash for? or sparge temp too high?

simon.

 

[andre the giant]

The 66 C looks fine to me, but I usually only mash for 90 minutes, sometimes as little as 60 minutes. I wonder if you're converting too much of your mash, resulting in a higher alcohol, less body beer. I dunno, I'm sure someone else will chime in here to either back me up or disagree.

 

[Kaiser]

my mash was approx 66degrees C, mashed for 2 hours.

This is your problem.

In order to get more body you should mash shorter, about 45 - 60 min (but still achieve conversion) and raise the mash temp to 68C. Make sure the mash temp doesn't drop to far. When you mash at 66C, you may reach conversion after 45-60 min. After that only the beta amylase is doing significant work and is converting most of your dextrines (body) to maltose.

are you doing single infusion or step mashes?

You should also make sure that you mash-out properly. This means raising the mash above 72C once saccrification time is up. It is also important that your run-offs never drop below 70C. This means start heating them while you sparge.

Eventually you will have to experiment with the times and temps for your system as it is hard to predict an attenuation for a particular mash schedule.

Kai

 

[boo boo]

I rarely go beyond 60 minutes for my mash. Could be that is your problem, making too fermentable of a wort.
Edit...as K said a mash out most likely help also.
Edit..also I wonder if too thin a mash would do that....?

 

[simonj]

I use a single infusion mash. i'll try and reduce the mash time to 60 mins this weekend. Thanks for all the suggestions..... I was pondering going back to extract brewing.... but not any more!!

 

[boo boo]

My god man. Surely your brews have to be better than extract brews you made in the past. I have just about fooled up my first couple of AG brews and am still learning, but all have been better than my extract ones.

 

[simonj]

thats very true..... guess i was just being daft when i hoped/thought they would be great first time!!

but although I thought the first one was junk, my dad thought it was the best yet!.....

i'll not give up so easily!!

cheers guys.

 

[Mikey]

I made a cream ale a few weeks ago with too much body- wasn't paying attention and ended up mashing in at 70*C. It's still a great beer, just not to style. I'll blend it with another batch I've got where I overdid the corn (40%).

 

[simonj]

does this mean if I raise the mash temp I will get more body? I thought if the mash temp was too high, you get off flavours?

*confused!*

 

[RichBrewer]

Also, what does your grain bill look like? What did you get for your gravities?
Don't give up! It does get easier.

 

[simonj]

It was a clone for wadworth 6x. from a book by Wheeler. OG in region of 1042. the grain and readings should be ok, I made it as extract without any hitches.

I'm now determined to make GOOD, TASTY beer!!

 

[Mikey]

does this mean if I raise the mash temp I will get more body? I thought if the mash temp was too high, you get off flavours?

*confused!*

You're confusing mash temperatures with fermentation temps. You don't want high fermentation temps in most styles of beers.

 

[Kaiser]

I use a single infusion mash. i'll try and reduce the mash time to 60 mins this weekend. Thanks for all the suggestions..... I was pondering going back to extract brewing.... but not any more!!

That might improve things for you. If it still turns out to dry up the temp by 1-2*C and/or shorten the mash time (still enough for conversion though).

Besides the mash-out make sure to record this data:
- actual starting mash temp
- actual end mash temp (end of timed saccrification rest)
- length of saccrification rest
- OG
- FG
- yeast used

This way you can build up a data base that can help you hitting your desired attenuation more precisely for future brews.

Kai

 

[cowain]

does this mean if I raise the mash temp I will get more body? I thought if the mash temp was too high, you get off flavours?

*confused!*

From what I understand, the higher the temp (to a point), the higher the body. The lower the temp (again, to a point) the drier the brew will be. I believe this is due to higher temps leaving more dextrins in the wort and lower temps not doing so.

The off flavors you are referring to are acheived at 170F or above and are due to extracting tannins from the husk of the grains. As long as you don't get that hot, you'll be ok.

 

[Darth Konvel]

Regarding mash temps and such, check out my post and related links in my thread regarding Fermentability. It's the 6th post down.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Beta amylase, the fermentable sugar maker likes a lower temp like 140F (60c)

Alpha Amylase, the body maker (unfermentable dextrins) likes a higher temp like 158 (70c)

When you go higher than the optimum temp for the enzyme, the enzymes start to chemicaly break down, but there is a tolerance range where they slow down but are not all destroyed. that is why you can mash at 150 and still get both alpa and beta amylase reactions.

There is tons of info online regarding mashing. Howtobrew comes to mind.

 

[Kaiser]

Regarding mash temps and such, check out my post and related links in my thread regarding Fermentability. It's the 6th post down.

Thanks for the point to your post. I will have to take some time to read through all the links.

Kai

 

[ajf]

For an English Bitter, I always try to mash between 156 and 158F (69 - 70C).
Mashing at 66C (150F) definitely results in a thin tasting beer (at least to my palate).
I never mash for more than 60 minutes, but I have no idea what effect this would have.
I also add gypsum (and sometimes epsom salts) to my water as it is severely lacking in calcium and sulphates.
I fly sparge, and the time taken for sparging varies between 75 and 100 minutes. I try to keep the sparge temp (at the time it hits the grain bed slightly below 170F (77C).
I also acidify the sparge water to a max Ph of 5.7 to prevent excessive extraction of tannins.
When I get all this right, the brews come out PDG, but I must admit that I do sometimes screw up something.

-a.