L. Brevis or L. Buchneri for Berliner sour worting?

[hukdizzle]

I am going to be brewing up a berliner weisse here in a couple of weeks with a new method that I haven't tried before and was wondering which of these strains you guys would pick to sour wort with.

I am going to be taking my full runnings and raising them to near boiling for 15 minutes to ensure complete pasteurization and then transfering back to my cleaned/sanitized mash tun to sour over a 72 hour period at 100'F.

Thoughts on which strain would be best for something like this?

 

[seth8530]

I had good luck with brevis. But, you might want to be careful about keeping it at 100F. Just because something grows faster at a higher temperature does not mean it makes better flavour.

 

[hukdizzle]

Thanks for the feedback Seth, do you feel it would be wise to possibly lower the souring temp to 95 or so? I am going to be doing a full boil on the soured wort after the souring has been completed so the majority of the volatile off flavors will probably boil off during a 90 minute boil.

 

[Fermented_minds]

L. brevis all day... I've got the White Labs L. brevis from The Yeast Bay, and it sours quickly in the upper 70's with low IBU wort. Haven't tried higher IBU wort though.

 

[seth8530]

Thanks for the feedback Seth, do you feel it would be wise to possibly lower the souring temp to 95 or so? I am going to be doing a full boil on the soured wort after the souring has been completed so the majority of the volatile off flavors will probably boil off during a 90 minute boil.

NP, keep in mind I am more of a winemaker than anything.. But think about this, do you really think that boiling after lacto fermentation is done is going to help you preserve the volatile aromatics that you would like to keep? Seems like a lot of work to use lacto and then simply boil it. If that is your plan, why not just simply add lactic acid right? I imagine that their is a lot more going on with lactic fermentation than simply the creation of lactic acid which makes a sour a sour right?

I am not quite sure what the optimum temperature for brevis would be, but it might be looking up some more information on that. I think I had good luck around 70-80 on the fermentation temp.

 

[sweetcell]

I had good luck with brevis. But, you might want to be careful about keeping it at 100F. Just because something grows faster at a higher temperature does not mean it makes better flavour.

NP, keep in mind I am more of a winemaker than anything..

are you aware that fast-souring at 100-115*F is a standard practice in beer making? it's how most berliner weisses are made.

lacto isn't known for producing aromatics, so there isn't anything lost during the boil in that respect.

But think about this, do you really think that boiling after lacto fermentation is done is going to help you preserve the volatile aromatics that you would like to keep? Seems like a lot of work to use lacto and then simply boil it. If that is your plan, why not just simply add lactic acid right? I imagine that their is a lot more going on with lactic fermentation than simply the creation of lactic acid which makes a sour a sour right?

there definitely is a difference between a beer soured with lacto and one that simply has lactic acid added (hence why we go through the trouble of using lacto instead of chemical). however, that distinction isn't lost by boiling.

 

[MileHighBrewer]

You boil to stop the lacto from getting more sour during fermentation. If added after the boil you lose control.

 

[joshrosborne]

You boil to stop the lacto from getting more sour during fermentation. If added after the boil you lose control.

In some sense, yes. It's not as if the Lacto will keep souring and souring forever, though. As some point, its growth is inhibited by the pH of the wort.

 

[sweetcell]

If added after the boil you lose control.

you can have some control via alcohol, if you make the beer big enough. hops can have an impact depending on the strain. but those two "influencers" are nothing like the control you have through boiling.

 

[MileHighBrewer]

you can have some control via alcohol, if you make the beer big enough. hops can have an impact depending on the strain. but those two "influencers" are nothing like the control you have through boiling.

Exactly

 

[seth8530]

I guess another alternative would be to raise the IBUs on it.