Cider smelling very sour...? First time. (A journey)

[zosimus]

This is my second time brewing so I am way beginner. First time I followed a kit and it was actually a really successful brew and was pretty enjoyable.

Second time is now, (still brewing) a cider. I went to a natural grocer and bought unfiltered, pasteurized, no preservative cider and a couple other juices just as an experiment. I also had a kit this time. I'm also super careful about sanitizing everything.

I don't have a great place to store (gallon glass fermenter) so it's mainly been sitting around 73 F and 78 F which I've been told is a bit high for ciders. I moved it out to my garage for a bit, which dropped it to 63F-64F.

Beginning couple of days, things were working fine and the yeast seemed to be happy, but around day 4 or 5, fermentation seemed to halt. I was already going to add more juice into the batch, as I was told that if juice was added later into fermentation, you may get a sweeter finish (due to the yeast not eating as much sugar). I had my girlfriend add the juice, but unfortunately did not warn her she needed to stop filling at a certain point so the fermenter was way too high.

I hoped it wouldn't be a problem, but sadly, after a couple hours I come to find the airlock overtaken by the floating fruit gump. I decided it would be best to empty some out so it wouldn't be a problem long term so after sanitizing a bunch, I used a tube to remove some of the wort (is it called 'wort' with cider?).

That's when things get sad... Day after, it seems fermentation has come to a halt. No bubbles. It's now like 5 days in and I'm thinking I've ruined it. Frantically, I'm looking for answers on what's up with it. Some people say the fermentation is already done, which I'm not sure is true and don't want to bottle so early on (the recipe said wait 2 weeks), but I also don't just want it sitting there for another week doing nothing. Anyway online unfortunately tells me I should aerate some more to get the yeast active again. So I shake the fermenter around day 7 to see if I can get it to be active again. Then I'm looking online again, and I find that actually, it's not a good idea to aerate it in the middle of fermentation because of introducing other bacteria into the mix. I realize my mistake and worry I may have completely messed it up this time. The fermentation is still stagnant. I am now fear I have completely lost this batch, but I'm too attached.

I decide to add slightly more juice in hopes the yeast will wake and begin eating again. When doing so, I notice the smell is slightly off. Still yeasty, but now sour. There is no visible signs of any compromise though. Online tells me varying things, some saying it's compromised, and some saying it is just not done fermenting and it should smell sour because all the sugars are gone.

We are now about 2 weeks in, and since adding the sugars, I haven't touched it. It is still bubbling and seems to be fermenting, although it is now way less vigorous, but still I see bubbles forming (unlike when I saw it day 5-6).

Do y'all think this is infected? I know it can be a sour, so I suppose I can taste before bottling, but at this point I'm not sure what my plan is.

I've heard of people adding Campden tablets, and I'm still not exactly sure what they're used for but did read you can add them before bottling. Does anyone do that and if so what is the reason for that? From what I've read, I'm worried if adding campden will stop the fermentation from carbonating when I bottle the cider.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Jag75]

Welcome to HBT .

Would love to help you out but I don't make cider . I think once years ago and it was a kit so it was basic . Your best bet is to check out the cider forum here . One thing I will tell you , it's pretty universal. Never bottle anything until you are certain it is done fermenting. It could result in bottle bombs. A hydrometer is your friend . Good luck

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forums/cider-forum.32/

 

[DBhomebrew]

I suspect your initial ferment was near complete at the 4-5 day mark. That would make the cider (would be 'must' as in wine, but only pre-pitch) resistant to infection due to lower pH, etc. The results of infection, sour and such, usually take more than 2wks to develop. Cider can off-gas some funky smells. That's funky compounds leaving your precious liquid.

That's to say, your cider might very well be fine. Quit fixing it for a bit. Don't touch it. Let it be. Another 7 days in the fermenter might do it good. Another 30 might be better.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I've heard of people adding Campden tablets, and I'm still not exactly sure what they're used for but did read you can add them before bottling. Does anyone do that and if so what is the reason for that? From what I've read, I'm worried if adding campden will stop the fermentation from carbonating when I bottle the cider.

If you intend to carbonate via bottle conditioning, the safest route would be to ferment it totally dry and plan for a carbonated unsweetened cider. No Campden, no backsweetening.

If your goal is a sweet cider, you still ferment totally dry. Then you let the cider completely clear and then hit it with the Campden tablets to inhibit the still present yeast from reproducing. At this point, you can add concentrated apple juice, honey, sugar, whatever to backsweeten to taste. Note, you now don't have enough active yeast to carbonate and if you did, they would ferment your backsweetening too.

If you want carbed sweet cider, you can use a nonfermentable sugar for the backsweetening sans Campden. The yeast are left viable to ferment the fermentable priming sugar.

 

[zosimus]

If you want carbed sweet cider, you can use a nonfermentable sugar for the backsweetening sans Campden. The yeast are left viable to ferment the fermentable priming sugar.

Thanks for the info!

So just to be clear, if I wanted carbed sweet, I'd use nonfermentable sugar before bottling? And would I add campden tab before bottling as well as the priming sugar? Or just the priming sugar and the nonfermentable sweetener?

 

[DBhomebrew]

No Campden.

Ferment until totally dry. Confirm fermentation is done by taking two matching gravity readings separated by some time. You know have viable yeast and no sugars left to ferment.

For carbonation, add fermentable priming sugar in an amount to arrive at your desired level of carb. The yeast will ferment this into a little more alcohol and your desired CO2.

For sweetness, add  non-fermentable sweetener to arrive at your desired level of sweetness. The yeast will not touch it.

Campden would make the yeast non-viable for the carbonation. It can be used to backsweeten still cider with a fermentable such as more cider, honey, table sugar, etc. With still cider you don't need the viable yeast in the bottle for carbonation.