Kind of a Weird Request.

[woody189]

I'm trying to train my pallet to recognize different flavors, but it's not so easy. I know one, possibly the best ,way is to make identical batches of beer, slightly altering one thing at a time. Like brew the exact same batch but w/ different type of yeast/ more or less hops/ different temp/ etc. just so I learn how everything works.

However, I'm not sure I trust myself to make identical batches, and I don't have any sort of temerature control. I just leave the fermenter in the closet (usually about 70 degrees) so I don't really have that much control. Also, it'll take me forever to brew all those batches.

My request is that I'd like to know of some commercial beers that would help me do this. Idk if this is even possible, but if you know of beers that I can try side by side to help learn what's the difference.

For example, you tell me to buy Beer A and Beer B because they are basically the same beer, only Beer A has more hops... That way, I'll get a better understanding of what effect hops specifcally have.

I've tried doing this myself, but when I buy 2 different beers, IDK what caused the different flavors.

Does that make sense? If this is not plausible, then just say so.

Thanks

 

[BigB]

Well that really is a tough one... I suppose it would be possible to compare beers of the same brewery, but not brewery v. brewery. A great example is that in the 1950's Chimay in Belgian was killing Rochefort and nearly put Rochefort out of business. Chimay gave Rochefort its recipes and yeast, but still Rochefort was nothing like Chimay because even if all of the ingredients are the same, there are still differences in equipment, environment, and process. Check out the SMaSH threads... they have some great ideas.

 

[pompeiisneaks]

I'd think trying to detect subtle differences would be hardre than staring w/ extremely different beers and see what you find... if that makes sense... Try an IPA, and say an ESB, both have quite different flavor profiles, and you can clearly tell the difference between them, that helps your palate sense a huge difference, then start trying to find beers that are closer... I'm probably not the best palate out there either, but if you do want to, you could try similar type ales from different vendors, they always have slightly different takes on beers... I.e. try a Guinness Stout and a murphys stout, quite different flavor profiles for stouts... Guiness is a bit more dry, and murphys is a bit sweeter, if I recall (been a while though), but even if I'm wrong, I do know they're quite different. Or try two different Pale Ales' from local breweries, Pale Ales aren't overly complex usually but still use some great hops and massively varying hops... so that may be a good thing to try... different pale ales across the spectrum. Either way, I hope you enjoy a lot of beer and love it all!

 

[roycroft]

Something you might try is splitting up a batch into two portions and varying one of them. You could boil 5 gallons and then put it into two 3 gallon carboys to ferment, using, say, different yeast in each carboy or dry hopping one. This would at least allow you to perform some experiments without having to brew a bunch of full batches. You could even brew in 5 1 gallon jugs and get several variations of a single batch.

 

[bwomp313]

I like Pompeii's idea. Also something that has helped me is reading other people's notes on the beer and tasting it to see if you get the same flavors and maybe differences between what they taste and you taste. In the end it's very subjective. If you go to www.ratebeer.com you can find these notes and make sure to read the top rater's opinions. Those guys really know what they're talking about (mostly). There's also a book called The Brewmaster's Table written by Garret Oliver the brewmaster of the Brooklyn Brewery and he has great notes on some great style defining beers in there.

 

[woody189]

Well that really is a tough one... I suppose it would be possible to compare beers of the same brewery, but not brewery v. brewery. A great example is that in the 1950's Chimay in Belgian was killing Rochefort and nearly put Rochefort out of business. Chimay gave Rochefort its recipes and yeast, but still Rochefort was nothing like Chimay because even if all of the ingredients are the same, there are still differences in equipment, environment, and process. Check out the SMaSH threads... they have some great ideas.

Thanks. I'll check out the threads.

I'd think trying to detect subtle differences would be hardre than staring w/ extremely different beers and see what you find... if that makes sense... Try an IPA, and say an ESB, both have quite different flavor profiles, and you can clearly tell the difference between them, that helps your palate sense a huge difference, then start trying to find beers that are closer... I'm probably not the best palate out there either, but if you do want to, you could try similar type ales from different vendors, they always have slightly different takes on beers... I.e. try a Guinness Stout and a murphys stout, quite different flavor profiles for stouts... Guiness is a bit more dry, and murphys is a bit sweeter, if I recall (been a while though), but even if I'm wrong, I do know they're quite different. Or try two different Pale Ales' from local breweries, Pale Ales aren't overly complex usually but still use some great hops and massively varying hops... so that may be a good thing to try... different pale ales across the spectrum. Either way, I hope you enjoy a lot of beer and love it all!

I think that's what i'm gonna start with. I'll probably pick up the variety case of sam adams or something. Then I'll take it from there.

Something you might try is splitting up a batch into two portions and varying one of them. You could boil 5 gallons and then put it into two 3 gallon carboys to ferment, using, say, different yeast in each carboy or dry hopping one. This would at least allow you to perform some experiments without having to brew a bunch of full batches. You could even brew in 5 1 gallon jugs and get several variations of a single batch.

I planned on doing that, actually I still kind of do. But I'm not sure what I can screw around with. I guess I can get 2 different yeasts and split it up, but then that would mean I'm wasting 1/2 a bottle of yeast. I was also thinking about dry hopping 1 part, and not the other. Just so I can get a better idea of what hops really are.

I like Pompeii's idea. Also something that has helped me is reading other people's notes on the beer and tasting it to see if you get the same flavors and maybe differences between what they taste and you taste. In the end it's very subjective. If you go to www.ratebeer.com you can find these notes and make sure to read the top rater's opinions. Those guys really know what they're talking about (mostly). There's also a book called The Brewmaster's Table written by Garret Oliver the brewmaster of the Brooklyn Brewery and he has great notes on some great style defining beers in there.

Cool. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Frodo]

Lately whenever I drink a commercial beer, I'll try to find a clone recipe online that everyone is saying is really close to the original. Then as I'm tasting the beer I'll at least have a notion of the malt and hops, and hop schedule used to make it. Over time, it seems to have helped me some with trying to pick out what is causing what flavors.

 

[kanzimonson]

Get a journal and start writing down your perceptions of beers - commercial and homebrew. The more you do it, the more you'll learn. And the more you brew, the more you'll make associations with different ingredients. Nobody can just zap their palate into being super-perceptive - it takes practice.

And I really like comparative tasting. Get two IPAs and taste them individually in their own sessions. Then do a side-by-side and you'll be amazed at how much more you can taste when you have a comparison.