Kill-A-Watt Brewery Build Compilation

[Proetus]

Seeing all that shiny come together like that makes me pee in my pants a little bit with excitement!

 

[beerocd]

CRAZY thought. Is there going to be a liner in there with a drain perhaps, just in case? Or one of those $15 water alarms from home depot?

 

[Cliff897]

Does it do that in a normal RIMS heater? I dunno

I don't know either. I believe that the volume of wort that will be exposed to the brunt of energy from close contact with a heater in a tight space might be more intimately exposed to the element. Of course that might be mooted by the fact of constant flow. It may be that the flow across the heater element will move the wort along at an exchange rate amount similar to a heater in a tank. If so then it'll all wash out in the sparge - so to speak -.

Just thinking out loud sort of; in cyber space that is.

When I first saw the construction I thought: "Hey that's brilliant~!!" Then I got to thinking if I wanted to try something like that and then I got to wondering about it and the mechanics of the heat transfer.

So from my perspective you are out there on the cutting edge of DIY RIMS exploration "boldly going ~ ~ ~ " and all that.

There were a few moments when I wondered at your election to not use insulation. However one only needs to observe your preference for aesthetically pleasing design elements flowing together into a harmonious whole. Insulation might work havoc with that.

I only recently decided not to go HERMS but to go RIMS instead. Electric was part of the package from the get go 'cause I'll be building and brewing in a close flammable environment (cellar of a wood structure) and I'd rather not have flames plus I want to keep my wort and brew as isolated from the atmosphere as I can. So, you might correctly guess that I'm watching your build closely.

 

[CodeRage]

When I first saw the construction I thought: "Hey that's brilliant~!!" Then I got to thinking if I wanted to try something like that and then I got to wondering about it and the mechanics of the heat transfer.

So from my perspective you are out there on the cutting edge of DIY RIMS exploration "boldly going ~ ~ ~ " and all that.

I only recently decided not to go HERMS but to go RIMS. Electric was part of the package from the get go 'cause I'll be building and brewing in a close flammable environment (cellar of a wood structure) and I'd rather not have flames plus I want to keep my wort and brew as isolated from the atmosphere as I can. So, you might correctly guess that I'm watching your build closely.

Not to detract but 4500W RIMS elements have been used before. I personally have had no issues and haven't read about any one else reverting back to smaller elements. I've also used a 1500W UHD element, the watts per in^2 was obscene compared to the 4500W and it worked okay till I cracked it. Why do I feel like I am repeating myself?

 

[Cliff897]

Not to detract but 4500W RIMS elements have been used before.

Yah true true but that wasn't the totality of what I mean. I was addressing the over all design ethos the interesting and intimate attention to details and execution.
Any one can knock a hole in a pot and get a pipe fitting attached or install a heating element. Drills taps dies solder, wires purchased electronics, as you inferred, it's not rocket science.

This is someone however who loves to build beautiful things that work.
He is taking all that otherwise fairly pedestrian stuff and making it look like a combination of mechanical sculpture and rocket science together by virtue of the quality of execution.

 

[CodeRage]

Yah true true but that wasn't the totality of what I mean. I was addressing the over all design ethos the interesting and intimate attention to details and execution.
Any one can knock a hole in a pot and get a pipe fitting attached or install a heating element. Drills taps dies solder, wires purchased electronics, as you inferred, it's not rocket science.

This is someone however who loves to build beautiful things that work.
He is taking all that otherwise fairly pedestrian stuff and making it look like a combination of mechanical sculpture and rocket science together by virtue of the quality of execution.

Right........ You were talking mechanics, aesthetics wasn't even mentioned until after you began to go Trekkie. I was addressing your mechanical pondering. I won't argue aesthetics as it is a very beautiful sculpture indeed.

If I inferred that there is a level of simplicity to the design of any rig than I am sorry. Each and every one, small, big, utilitarian, and grandiose, is at a minimum a small feat of engineering. So I wouldn't go discrediting them and inferring they are hack jobs. A lot of what you see here has been paved way by many other people's hard work and money.

 

[The Pol]

Cliff, thanks, I am glad you appreciate the build.

I estimate that it will take me another 2 weeks to get all of the electronics installed in the E-bay, the wet side of the sculpture will take maybe an hour to drill some holes for hoses to pass through various levels, that is all.

Once the BCS is in... I already have the SSRs, pumps, RIMS heater 100% complete... I just need to get them all in there. The E-bay will incorporate air inlets at each heat sink location (coming through the bottom of the sculpture) so that I can have the fan blow OUTward from the side of the E-bay. This will draw air in at each heatsink and exhaust the heat out. I prefer this as I do not want high velocity air/dust/water/junk getting blown INto the E-bay by the fan.

It probably wont need a fan... but a fellow HBTer hooked me up and it will certainly keep E-bay temps down.

 

[martinworswick]

couple of questions.

i've been thinking about building a 2 vessel system but instead of being no sparge i was thinking of using the rims tube for on demand sparge water-sort of a virtual hlt.do you think your tubes can heat up the water to sparge temps at fly sparge flow rates?

when your mash temp drops and you start recirculating the wort through the rims tube,how does the temperature controller know when wort has actually flooded the rims tube and its ok to spark up the elements?

cheers
martin

 

[Hermit]

couple of questions.

i've been thinking about building a 2 vessel system but instead of being no sparge i was thinking of using the rims tube for on demand sparge water-sort of a virtual hlt.do you think your tubes can heat up the water to sparge temps at fly sparge flow rates?

when your mash temp drops and you start recirculating the wort through the rims tube,how does the temperature controller know when wort has actually flooded the rims tube and its ok to spark up the elements?

cheers
martin

http://www.e-tankless.com/products.php

Did a quick check. 12KW was the lowest I saw a tankless hot water heater. If your flow rate is low enough, I don't see why not.

 

[The Pol]

couple of questions.

i've been thinking about building a 2 vessel system but instead of being no sparge i was thinking of using the rims tube for on demand sparge water-sort of a virtual hlt.do you think your tubes can heat up the water to sparge temps at fly sparge flow rates? YES, I have done the calculations, and this heater has more than enough heating power to heat from 60F to 168F at normal sparge rates

when your mash temp drops and you start recirculating the wort through the rims tube,how does the temperature controller know when wort has actually flooded the rims tube and its ok to spark up the elements?

I dont need to know when the RIMS tube is flooded, because it is always flooded. The recirc will be running 100% of the time, as it does in most RIMS and HERMS systems. The only variable is whether or not the wort is below the set point or not, commanding the element ON. The wort is ALWAYS recirculating

cheers
martin

Hope that clarifies... now my rant...

 

[The Pol]

SOOO, I order a specific item off AMAZON... of course it is from a "seller" not Amazon directly. It is a Camco 02583 element... all I am using on this build.

I get an email from the seller showing they shipped me a RHEEM element... odd? So I go back and check Amazon... yup, shows I ordered a CAMCO, so I email the seller with my concern.

They tell me that Camco makes this element for Rheem and the SKU#'s are the same and it is the same thing. OK, sounds plausible.

I get home from a long trip and see that I recieved a cheap imitation CAMCO... it is a RHEEM, doesnt have the chrome coating, it weighs about HALF as much as the CAMCO and it is 1.25" longer and will not fit into my RIMS tube.

Same thing huh? Color me pissed. If I order a specific item, with a specific model #... DONT SEND ME IMITATION CRAP! What the heck is wrong with these people? Want to know the name of the seller so that you can avoid them?

I sent them an email tonight telling them how disappointed I am... how rediculous. It is the "same". Yeah, in the respect that they both heat water bone head.

 

[Hermit]

SOOO, I order a specific item off AMAZON... of course it is from a "seller" not Amazon directly. It is a Camco 02583 element... all I am using on this build.

I get an email from the seller showing they shipped me a RHEEM element... odd? So I go back and check Amazon... yup, shows I ordered a CAMCO, so I email the seller with my concern.

They tell me that Camco makes this element for Rheem and the SKU#'s are the same and it is the same thing. OK, sounds plausible.

I get home from a long trip and see that I recieved a cheap imitation CAMCO... it is a RHEEM, doesnt have the chrome coating, it weighs about HALF as much as the CAMCO and it is 1.25" longer and will not fit into my RIMS tube.

Same thing huh? Color me pissed. If I order a specific item, with a specific model #... DONT SEND ME IMITATION CRAP! What the heck is wrong with these people? Want to know the name of the seller so that you can avoid them?

I sent them an email tonight telling them how disappointed I am... how rediculous. It is the "same". Yeah, in the respect that they both heat water bone head.

Stress is caused by not being able to choke the xxxx out of some axehat that ....... well, you know.

 

[The Pol]

Stress is caused by not being able to choke the xxxx out of some axehat that ....... well, you know.

I mean, seriously? I cant wait for them to tell me to send it back. Really? Why would I do that, I didnt order it in the first place... this must be a gift. Now send me what I PAID for.

After getting screwed out of a plush 24 hour layover in Denver this week for a frigid night in Alberta Canada... people should not push me.

I did however recieve 10' of power cable to plug the thing in with... and some more SSRs, bringing the total to 10. The BCS is on a truck somewhere I think and well... a couple weeks... a couple weeks. As long as I can find a damn CAMCO!!!!

 

[martinworswick]

.when your mash temp drops and you start recirculating the wort through the rims tube,how does the temperature controller know when wort has actually flooded the rims tube and its ok to spark up the elements?

I dont need to know when the RIMS tube is flooded, because it is always flooded. The recirc will be running 100% of the time, as it does in most RIMS and HERMS systems. The only variable is whether or not the wort is below the set point or not, commanding the element ON. The wort is ALWAYS recirculating

ok that makes sense,having never used a rims i just assumed it was only used when the temp of the mash dropped.

 

[pickles]

Pol, was the vendor Toolbox Supply? If so I'm gonna be really pissed; I just ordered 3!

 

[Hermit]

When you find them you may want to order at least one spare especially if length will be a problem.

 

[ScubaSteve]

I try to steer away from "vendors" on Amazon for this very reason....I've had all kinds of issues with shipping delays, backorders (which REALLY piss me off...why list the product for sale if it has been backordered for a month?), and just generally sketchy product descriptions....

Sometimes it's worth paying a few dollars more to get it from Amazon, or just buy it from somewhere else....but I guess I'm just preaching to the choir

 

[The Pol]

Pol, was the vendor Toolbox Supply? If so I'm gonna be really pissed; I just ordered 3!

Nope, it is BuyPlumbing. Here is what they say about themselves.

"BuyPlumbing...not just another new online retailer. We know what our customers want and go out of our way to satisfy them with quality products and outstanding customer service. So why go somewhere else when you can get it all here? Find kitchen and bath faucets, tubs, toilets, washlets, sinks, garbage disposals, plumbing accessories and parts here at BuyPlumbing. We've been there in the past and we'll be there in the future!"

Bottom line, they KNEW they sent me something OTHER than what I ordered, but did it knowing full well, that they did so. This wasnt a "mistake", this was an intentional substitute. For this reason, I left them crappy feedback. This isnt a matter of "how are you going to fix this mistake". It is a matter of KNOWING that you sent me something that I did not order, and then when I inquired, tried to pass off an inferior product as "the same" as what I ordered. Screw them and thier pitiful business.

 

[Hermit]

Nope, it is BuyPlumbing. Here is what they say about themselves.

"BuyPlumbing...not just another new online retailer. We know what our customers want and go out of our way to satisfy them with quality products and outstanding customer service. So why go somewhere else when you can get it all here? Find kitchen and bath faucets, tubs, toilets, washlets, sinks, garbage disposals, plumbing accessories and parts here at BuyPlumbing. We've been there in the past and we'll be there in the future!"

Bottom line, they KNEW they sent me something OTHER than what I ordered, but did it knowing full well, that they did so. This wasnt a "mistake", this was an intentional substitute. For this reason, I left them crappy feedback. This isnt a matter of "how are you going to fix this mistake". It is a matter of KNOWING that you sent me something that I did not order, and then when I inquired, tried to pass off an inferior product as "the same" as what I ordered. Screw them and thier pitiful business.

Can you report them to Amazon for what is clearly a "bait and switch" scheme?

 

[The Pol]

Can you report them to Amazon for what is clearly a "bait and switch" scheme?

Tried to find a way, couldnt yet... it just sayes to take up issues with the seller themselves. It is really just a generic heating element, it isnt even a Rheem after looking at the package further... nice.

 

[The Pol]

Pol, was the vendor Toolbox Supply? If so I'm gonna be really pissed; I just ordered 3!

FYI, dealing with this issue, I sent back to look at my OLD ORDERS and it shows that on the information page, the seller is LISTED as Toolbox Supply... then when I ordered it, it was shipped from BuyPlumbing...

Soo, you may very well be getting the same deal I got, on generic, cheapo elements. I am calling them today, to further discuss my displeasure.

 

[Brewmoor]

Hey Pol,

Do you have a home depot near you. I saw camco elements at our local HD over the weekend. You may be able to find what you need locally.

 

[The Pol]

Well, for now I have to get my $$ back from this seller. I have looked locally and could not find the 02583 element, I dont have a HD near me... but I have another way locally to get one I think.

On another note... if you are buying SSR + Heatsink combos from Asia Engineer on Ebay, you will need to source some mounting screws to mount the SSR to the Heatsink... I am using M4-.70 x 10 socket head cap screws.

 

[pickles]

FYI, dealing with this issue, I sent back to look at my OLD ORDERS and it shows that on the information page, the seller is LISTED as Toolbox Supply... then when I ordered it, it was shipped from BuyPlumbing...

Soo, you may very well be getting the same deal I got, on generic, cheapo elements. I am calling them today, to further discuss my displeasure.

Aww crap! Well we'll see, they shipped friday. I'm sure they'll be the same junk you've received.

 

[jkarp]

On another note... if you are buying SSR + Heatsink combos from Asia Engineer on Ebay, you will need to source some mounting screws to mount the SSR to the Heatsink... I am using M4-.70 x 10 socket head cap screws.

I also HIGHLY recommend using heat sink grease to improve the thermal transfer from the SSR to the heat sink. Any Radio Shack should carry it - about $2 for a small tube.

 

[The Pol]

Aww crap! Well we'll see, they shipped friday. I'm sure they'll be the same junk you've received.

I filed a complaint with Amazon today...

 

[The Pol]

I also HIGHLY recommend using heat sink grease to improve the thermal transfer from the SSR to the heat sink. Any Radio Shack should carry it - about $2 for a small tube.

That is a good point, they do not get shipped with that either, for those who have not set these up before, that is important.

 

[Hermit]

I filed a complaint with Amazon today...

It occurred to me that you can go higher. What they did may be illegal if they did not state up front they reserve the right to substitute.

 

[The Pol]

It occurred to me that you can go higher. What they did may be illegal if they did not state up front they reserve the right to substitute.

Under item description it sayes "Camco 02583 4500W LWD heating element"

Under Manufacturer, is sayes "CAMCO"

So... that is a little misleading

I am on the phone with them, they dont even CARRY CAMCO!!! Really? Duh?

I told them to send me a shipping label and they can have it back... they said it is more costly to pay to have it shipped back than it is to just let me keep it. Anyone want a Rheem heating element? New? In box?

 

[The Pol]

Aww crap! Well we'll see, they shipped friday. I'm sure they'll be the same junk you've received.

Look in your OLD ORDERS on AMAZON, and on that page look at the seller listed in the order info. DO NOT click on the item, as that will take you back to where even mine sayes Toolbox Supply. On my OLD ORDER page it changes to BuyPlumbing... they dont even sell Camco... I am begining to think Amazon has something to do with this now.

 

[Brewmoor]

I also HIGHLY recommend using heat sink grease to improve the thermal transfer from the SSR to the heat sink. Any Radio Shack should carry it - about $2 for a small tube.

Go with the $9 it has almost 100% concentration of silver. I forget the name but it is premium grease. The other products use a silicon base rather then silver.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Is it really worth it to spend as much on thermal grease as you did on the SSR? That doesn't pass the smell test for me. I have always used silicon based thermal grease and have never had a problem. Brewing and engineering applications included.

 

[Brewmoor]

Not sure. I come from a IT background. I have always used the silver stuff for overclocking machines. Those little suckers put off some heat. The silicon breaks down quicker......(so they claim). When I spend $300+ on a chip. I don't mind spending extra on grease. As for a cheap SSR? You are probably right.

 

[The Pol]

Well, the full SSR compliment is in:

 

[Brewmoor]

That will be fun to wire up!

 

[The Pol]

That will be fun to wire up!

Luckily this time I have A LOT of room, 20" x 20" x 20" basically. I am looking forward to getting them mounted and wired, still waiting on the BCS to come in.

 

[wyzazz]

Go with the $9 it has almost 100% concentration of silver. I forget the name but it is premium grease. The other products use a silicon base rather then silver.

Arctic Silver :rockin:

 

[pickles]

Pol, did they refund your money? Mine are certainly from BuyPlumbing.

 

[The Pol]

Pol, did they refund your money? Mine are certainly from BuyPlumbing.

I am sorry to hear that. You got ripped. Yeah, I called them, the poor operator girl seemed confused as hell. If you look at thier feedback on Amazon, this is a REAL problem with this seller. People are complaining that they are getting "similar" items, but not the items that they ordered from them.

They refunded my $$ to my CC and told me to keep the element as it would cost them more to pay to ship it back.

So, I am out nothing but time, but it isnt like I am firing this thing up this week anyhow. Now I am not so likely to shop Amazon, something fishy is going on when you order something from one seller, then when the order is filled, it changes to another seller.

 

[Saccharomyces]

Have you tried your local plumbing supply shop? Maybe call up a local plumber and ask them where they buy their stuff. I'm planning on getting all the parts for my build-out at a local shop so I can dry fit everything together right there. If they don't have the element I need I will have them order it for me.