kettle pH question

[eric19312]

I brewed a brut IPA today and saw pH in the kettle rise from preboil to post boil. After collecting my wort I added kettle salts and some lactic acid (6ml in 20 gallon boil) and got pH of 5.17...right where I was hoping to be. Checked pH in my OG sample and I was back up to 5.33. I thought pH was supposed to go down during the boil...

Any ideas what could cause this? There was a pound of hop pellets in the boil and whirlpool. Also late additions including brewtan B, a whirlfloc tab, 6mL beta glucanase enzyme and 3 tsp fermax yeast nutrient if any of those mess with pH.

In retrospect perhaps I should of checked ph with 15 min left in the boil and driven it down to 5.1 ish. Doubt my whirfloc even worked at that pH.

 

[Robert65]

Fermax contains DAP, right? How much? Could that account for the pH spike?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Hops increase pH.

 

[Robert65]

Hops increase pH.

More info, please!

 

[eric19312]

Fermax contains DAP, right? How much? Could that account for the pH spike?

3 tsp

 

[Vale71]

I don't think alpha-acids would increase PH, if anything then the exact opposite.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Dry hopping definitely raises beer pH, but I don't think hops are the issue here. The other stuff added is probably the culprit. DAP definitely does raise pH. I haven't really analyzed it with beer nutrients (which I'm sure many contain DAP), but using larger amounts of basically straight DAP wine nutrients in other fermented things has been a pretty big upwards pH buffer.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I can't find data about whether hops affect boil pH. I was extrapolating from dry hopping.

 

[eric19312]

75% of the hops were in whirlpool at about 175F for 30 min.

 

[couchsending]

Hops raise pH. Whether it be dry hopping or in the kettle.

However it wasn’t just the hops. Probably the Fermax combined with the large dose of hops in the kettle.

Is that the yeast nutrient you always use? Isn’t that designed more for wine fermentations?

 

[eric19312]

Hops raise pH. Whether it be dry hopping or in the kettle.

However it wasn’t just the hops. Probably the Fermax combined with the large dose of hops in the kettle.

Is that the yeast nutrient you always use? Isn’t that designed more for wine fermentations?

I used the nutrient because it is a brut IPA which may be higher than normal glucose content from the enzyme activity. I think I got this idea from some of the Social Kitchen literature. I don't know why I picked out that exact nutrient but seemed to be balanced product not just DAP. That said when used in wine the dose is 1 tsp per gallon and I used 3 tsp in 18 gallons.

I just tested a sample and pH has dropped to 4.48 and gravity to 1.018 so probably 3 days to go to FG. Before I dry hop I will check gravity and pH again. I'm a little worried my dry hops will raise the pH back up to something like 4.7 which is not what I was hoping for as a final pH.

 

[Qhrumphf]

If dry hops raise the pH too much a little phospo will bring it right back down.

 

[eric19312]

If dry hops raise the pH too much a little phospo will bring it right back down.

How about lactic?

 

[Qhrumphf]

Phosphoric would be more neutral, but lactic would do the job.

 

[Robert65]

I always see this idea of lactic being less flavor neutral than phosphoric. I use lactic exclusively, and have never detected a flavor. You'd have to use an awful lot to reach the taste threshold, and I've never needed near that much in any practical application. Perhaps other people's water and other factors necessitate much greater acid additions. (If you do use phosphoric, don't mess around with that 10% stuff they always have at LHBS, you'll just be diluting your beer with a lot of water and paying through the nose to do so.)

 

[RPh_Guy]

I always see this idea of lactic being less flavor neutral than phosphoric. I use lactic exclusively, and have never detected a flavor.

I'm a super taster, but I detect lactic acid in the amounts used to adjust mash pH for a pale grist with only moderate amounts of alkalinity in the water (same as your tap water I imagine). I switched to RO water mainly to limit the amount of acid I need.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Not a super taster, and I don't perceive it under reasonable usage either. Either would work. But some people have lower thresholds.

And yeah, I wouldn't bother with 10% phosphoric either. 88% lactic would be preferable to that and the typical LHBS should stock that one.

 

[eric19312]

I bought a quart bottle of 88% lactic from brewhardware.com about 3 years ago and only used about half of it so far.

 

[day_trippr]

32 ounces of 85% PA from Dudadiesel is pretty cheap. Dilute down to 25% with DI and it becomes versatile with little if any taste penalty...

Cheers!

 

[SanPancho]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/calculating-acid-when-adjusting-boil-ph.571500/

lactic and phosphoric. You can set your spreadsheet to calc the amount needed for dry hop counteraction as well. 1# per bbl rises .14. Or Roughly 1/2 oz per gallon as i recall.