Soon I will be kegging my IBA. I want to avoid oxidation as much as possible, but I will need to use the siphon. Will it help if I fill the keg with CO2 before I siphon, given that CO2 is heavier that room air.
Kegging Question
- Thread starter Bob C.
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Theoretically the CO2 should push the air out as you fill from the bottom of the keg. Not foolproof for eliminating O2, but better than just splashing into the keg.
You can fill your keg with StarSan to remove any O2, then push the StarSan out with CO2. This will get most of the O2 out.
Because you have no spigot or dip tube on your FV? If you have to take the lid off the fermenter then the beer is going to be exposed to oxygen no matter what you do to the keg, and once you open a purged keg it's not purged anymore. I'm not sure how you would start a siphon and run it into a purged keg through a QD.
You could try rigging something like this
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...lete-closed-transfer-system-for-cheap.680992/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...lete-closed-transfer-system-for-cheap.680992/
Broken Crow
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It cannot be repeated enough: The "CO2 Blanket" is a myth. Despite CO2 being marginally heavier than air, the moment a current or volume change occurs, mixing happens....CO2 is not heavy or dense enough to stop that. @marc1 's link is one of those 'close to ideal' for the homebrewer...What type of vessel is your fementer?
My first keggings involved the classic glass carboys and auto-siphon. Purging everything, including the siphon will help, but unless you can do a completely closed transfer, you must simply accept that some oxydation will occur. In my own case, it was my fermenting and transfering gear at the time that made me stick with brews which suffered less from O2 exposure until I could acquire and assemble a true closed-system.
There are many excellent threads about purging and transfers, so this is a good place to start:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/search/6606308/?q=purging&o=relevanceHopefully, you can tell us more about what equipment you are working with and someone can give a more targeted response.
My first keggings involved the classic glass carboys and auto-siphon. Purging everything, including the siphon will help, but unless you can do a completely closed transfer, you must simply accept that some oxydation will occur. In my own case, it was my fermenting and transfering gear at the time that made me stick with brews which suffered less from O2 exposure until I could acquire and assemble a true closed-system.
There are many excellent threads about purging and transfers, so this is a good place to start:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/search/6606308/?q=purging&o=relevanceHopefully, you can tell us more about what equipment you are working with and someone can give a more targeted response.
Thank you all. I think I will invest in a closed system based on the Fermonster. I will ciphan the IBA and hope for the best. I do appriciate all the advice.
Answering my own question - you could stick a QD and one of these connectors on the end of your siphon to fill it, then pull the connector and pop it onto the keg post (and hope you don't lose the siphon)
How about the process we all do where after we fill the keg we seal it up and then shoot it with CO2 as much as it will take then release that and repeat 3 or 4 times? Does that in theory “purge” what air is in the keg, at least a little? Assuming you’ve kept the end of your siphon hose submerged and not splashed all over and introduced extra oxygen?
Oxidation is also not an instant thing that hapoens in seconds after you open the fermenter. Its a combination of air exposure and time. Air exposure for the few minutes it takes to fill a keg should not be detrimental, especially if you’re careful and the keg is purged after being filled.
I have had kegs on tap for several months after being open transferred and kegs purged after fillling as described above without noticeable effects.
I open bottle beers from a bottling bucket when I bottle. There is no way to purge a bottle after you fill it. Some suggest leaving the cap sit on loosely for a few min before you crimp it. These days I mostly bottle strong stuff like barleywine and RIS so it doesn’t sit and occupy one of my taps for a year. I have bottled barleywines now going back to 2017 (just a couple left) and I am enjoying those. Maybe because these beers benefit from a little oxidation but they are not cardboard tasting or any of that.
I was also reading where some people have been experimenting with a small amount of citric acid as an anti-oxidant in their beers, but I haven’t kept up on the details of those experiments.
I don’t mean to open the oxygen police arguments. No doubt its true that oxygen can and does harm beer. And some styles like NEIPA are more susceptible than others. But again its a matter of exposure + time. I think its one of those rabbit holes and people make a bigger deal of it sometimes than it really needs to be. If you’re entering competitions then sure you want to pay more attention to anything that can give you an edge. But I don’t think its something to worry about for every beer if you take steps to reduce the risk. Its funny - we made good beer back in the 90s and nobody was doing closed transfers and measuring dissolved oxygen. What changed?
Oxidation is also not an instant thing that hapoens in seconds after you open the fermenter. Its a combination of air exposure and time. Air exposure for the few minutes it takes to fill a keg should not be detrimental, especially if you’re careful and the keg is purged after being filled.
I have had kegs on tap for several months after being open transferred and kegs purged after fillling as described above without noticeable effects.
I open bottle beers from a bottling bucket when I bottle. There is no way to purge a bottle after you fill it. Some suggest leaving the cap sit on loosely for a few min before you crimp it. These days I mostly bottle strong stuff like barleywine and RIS so it doesn’t sit and occupy one of my taps for a year. I have bottled barleywines now going back to 2017 (just a couple left) and I am enjoying those. Maybe because these beers benefit from a little oxidation but they are not cardboard tasting or any of that.
I was also reading where some people have been experimenting with a small amount of citric acid as an anti-oxidant in their beers, but I haven’t kept up on the details of those experiments.
I don’t mean to open the oxygen police arguments. No doubt its true that oxygen can and does harm beer. And some styles like NEIPA are more susceptible than others. But again its a matter of exposure + time. I think its one of those rabbit holes and people make a bigger deal of it sometimes than it really needs to be. If you’re entering competitions then sure you want to pay more attention to anything that can give you an edge. But I don’t think its something to worry about for every beer if you take steps to reduce the risk. Its funny - we made good beer back in the 90s and nobody was doing closed transfers and measuring dissolved oxygen. What changed?
NEIPA.
But you're right and someone should have mentioned it sooner - if the OP can't do a closed transfer then he definitely should purge the headspace after the transfer, but probably more like 20 cycles than 4 or 5.
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Eh, I'll argue that my beer (our beer, collectively, friends as well) was not as good, or at least not for as long. Looking back, it definitely oxidized and lost hop flavor pretty quickly. Kegging anyhow - for bottles they lasted OK because we filled them as close as we could to the top, not realizing at the time that was actually helping.
What changed = our awareness of what the beer could / should taste like as opposed to simply being happy we made beer at all.
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Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide (1995 copyright, I have the 2012 eBook) has a chapter on bottle and cask conditioned beers. A number of things are suggested for minimizing oxidation, including 1) minimizing head space, 2) "dry priming", and 3) using finings.
OTOH, SNPA is bottle conditioned and has a standard head space. IIRC, SNPA pitches fresh yeast during packaging.
Without knowing the quality of the beer at the start of the packaging process, it's is hard to measure (numerically or by taste) the effectiveness of any bottling technique.
eta: storing beer cold is another known technique for keeping beer fresh. And, "point conceded" that not everyone can take advantage of this approach.
OTOH, SNPA is bottle conditioned and has a standard head space. IIRC, SNPA pitches fresh yeast during packaging.
Without knowing the quality of the beer at the start of the packaging process, it's is hard to measure (numerically or by taste) the effectiveness of any bottling technique.
eta: storing beer cold is another known technique for keeping beer fresh. And, "point conceded" that not everyone can take advantage of this approach.
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