Keg Force Carbing Methods Illustrated

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Get carb stone. 15 to 20hrs and done closer to spec. Beer ready in one day.


WHAT !!!!!!!! This is my first time kegerator build and try. I gravity fed into keg 24 hrs ago. Sealed at 30 psi vented 3 times.

plugged in cooler, set temp to 40. set gauge to 12 psi. This morning psi down to 6

turned up to 10 psi

now, I would like to drink it ASAP.

I can devote my time to this and this only
 
this is my carb stone I used before fermentation for 45 seconds
image.jpg
 
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I presume that your CO2 tank is in the kegerator. If so, as the temp of your CO2 decreases so will the reading on your regulator until the temp stabilizes.
Why did you wait to turn on your kegerator until you put the keg in?
 
I presume that your CO2 tank is in the kegerator. If so, as the temp of your CO2 decreases so will the reading on your regulator until the temp stabilizes.
Why did you wait to turn on your kegerator until you put the keg in?

I had not even checked it for leaks, which it had one, first time using it. Bummer
 
so i did the burst carbonating method, turned it up to 30psi for less than 24 hours, then turned it down to 13 which is the equilibrium pressure for the level of carbonation i was looking for, but i didn't vent the keg in between, i only just did it now maybe a week later after checking this thread to see if i had done it right since it was pouring 95% foam. does that mean the keg has been sitting at that higher pressure this whole time and my beer is likely super overcarbed at this point?
 
Unlikely. If this was 5 gallons in a Cornelius style keg there's somewhat less than a quart of head space left. That would be the high pressure volume at the instant you dialed down the regulator, and eventually the keg would equalize.

This is @doug293cz territory, but wth, I'll take a swag at it: even assuming all of the gas in that head space was absorbed by the beer it only represented 1/20th of the beer volume. Allowing for double the effect due to the 30 psi at the start, it might raise the beer carbonation by a 10th of a volume.

Anyway...if this is a Cornelius keg there could be a simple, mechanical explanation for the foam: if the small O-ring under the Out dip tube flange is damaged or missing, it can allow CO2 in the keg head space to be injected into the beer stream at the Out post. This is a common failure mechanism...

Cheers!
 
Unlikely. If this was 5 gallons in a Cornelius style keg there's somewhat less than a quart of head space left. That would be the high pressure volume at the instant you dialed down the regulator, and eventually the keg would equalize.

This is @doug293cz territory, but wth, I'll take a swag at it: even assuming all of the gas in that head space was absorbed by the beer it only represented 1/20th of the beer volume. Allowing for double the effect due to the 30 psi at the start, it might raise the beer carbonation by a 10th of a volume.

Anyway...if this is a Cornelius keg there could be a simple, mechanical explanation for the foam: if the small O-ring under the Out dip tube flange is damaged or missing, it can allow CO2 in the keg head space to be injected into the beer stream at the Out post. This is a common failure mechanism...

Cheers!
The equilibrium gauge pressure is 13 psig, so that means the absolute pressure is 13 + 14.7 = 27.7 psia. At 30 psig, the absolute pressure would be 14.7 + 30 = 44.7 psia. The excess CO2 partial pressure is 44.7 - 27.7 = 17 psia. The headspace volume is about 0.35 gal or 1.32 L. CO2 at 14.7 psia has a density of 1.977 g/L, so at 17 psia the headspace contains 1.32 L * 1.977 g/L * 17 psia/14.7 psia = 3 g of excess CO2.

The keg contains 18.9 L of beer, so the volumes created by 3 g of CO2 dissolved in 18.9 L is: 3 g / (1.977 g/L * 18.9 L) = 0.08 volumes. So @day_trippr 's SWAG was pretty good, even tho he forgot he needed to use absolute pressure rather than gauge pressure.

Brew on :mug:
 
so it's 3 gallons and 2.75 gallons (split batch) respectively in 3 gallon torpedo kegs each. very small headspace in any case. i also did hook the gas up to the liquid out post to do so, and gave them each a good shake at the beginning of the high pressure phase.
 
so it's 3 gallons and 2.75 gallons (split batch) respectively in 3 gallon torpedo kegs each. very small headspace in any case. i also did hook the gas up to the liquid out post to do so, and gave them each a good shake at the beginning of the high pressure phase.
With the shaking, and smaller liquid volume, there is a chance that your beer was over-carbonated at the end of the 24 hrs @ 30 psig. The solution in that case is to bleed the excess pressure repeatedly until the carb level is acceptable.

Shaking the keg when under CO2 pressure in excess of the chart value is an inherently uncontrollable process, and is one of the easiest ways to over carbonate beer. I do not recommend ever using that method. Shaking at the chart pressure value cannot over carbonate, so if you are in a big hurry, shake at the chart pressure until you can hear no more CO2 flowing.

Also, bursting at 30 psig for 24 hrs is based on full 5 gal corny kegs. Smaller volumes should use proportionately less time at 30 psi to be safe.

Brew on :mug:
 
OK, this all makds sense, so far, to me.
Now for a curve ball question...
How does the shape and volume of the kegging vessel impact the carbonation process?
In my case, I want to use a "EURO" 30 litre keg. The EURO keg has a very different aspect ratio, wider than it is tall. Additionally, the head space is only 0.5 litres.
 
OK, this all makds sense, so far, to me.
Now for a curve ball question...
How does the shape and volume of the kegging vessel impact the carbonation process?
In my case, I want to use a "EURO" 30 litre keg. The EURO keg has a very different aspect ratio, wider than it is tall. Additionally, the head space is only 0.5 litres.
It'll carb faster than a corny unless you overfill reducing the surface area significantly because of the domed top. If you fill to nominal capacity you should have the full width of the keg available for gas to go into solution. These kegs are wider than they are tall, with a diameter of almost 0.4 meters and a liquid height, when filled to nominal capacity, of a little less than 0.25 meters. That's really ideal for forced carbonation.
 
AND if you lay the keg on it's side you get even more interface surface area between headspace and liquid, reducing the absorption time. But that'll be another @doug293cz paper for another time.
 
AND if you lay the keg on it's side you get even more interface surface area between headspace and liquid, reducing the absorption time. But that'll be another @doug293cz paper for another time.
True for the cornys most of us use, but maybe not for the Euro Kegs discussed in the last few posts.

Brew on :mug:
 
My new carbing method, i do it by weight! perfectly carbed in 30 seconds, maybe a minute, at 50 psi of shaking.....just needs to get cold! no fear of over, under carbing....

1 volume of co2 weighs 1.23oz's for a 5 gallon corny....

carbbyweight.jpg


and there's a chart for how residual co2 there will be from fermentation, and temp....
 

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yes it is! i need a dual regulator now, so i can keep one at my serving pressure of 8psi, and the other with a QD set at 50psi, for carbing kegs before they go in the fridge.....because this taprite takes a lot of twisting to go from 8 to 50psi.....and back again......plus all the lost co2 venting until i find my serving pressure.....
 
i crank the reg to 50psi.....only takes about 30 seconds of shaking..then a good roll around on it's side with the gas disconnected....
 
yes it is! i need a dual regulator now, so i can keep one at my serving pressure of 8psi, and the other with a QD set at 50psi, for carbing kegs before they go in the fridge.....because this taprite takes a lot of twisting to go from 8 to 50psi.....and back again......plus all the lost co2 venting until i find my serving pressure.....
I'm going to need to try this soon. I mean, I carb in 12-15hrs but some day this will come handy. As for regulator I highly recommend this Harris I bought at AHB. I had two of the $40s Tap Rites and are ok bit flimsy. When one failed at one year I got the Harris. The difference is nigh and day. You can feel the quality. It is worth the double price. Plus it has a 7yr warranty. When the next one fails I'll get another Harris.

https://www.homebrewing.org/Harris-Dual-Gauge-CO2-Regulator_p_9730.html
 
I'm going to need to try this soon. I mean, I carb in 12-15hrs but some day this will come handy. As for regulator I highly recommend this Harris I bought at AHB. I had two of the $40s Tap Rites and are ok bit flimsy. When one failed at one year I got the Harris. The difference is nigh and day. You can feel the quality. It is worth the double price. Plus it has a 7yr warranty. When the next one fails I'll get another Harris.

https://www.homebrewing.org/Harris-Dual-Gauge-CO2-Regulator_p_9730.html


does look like a thug of a reg.
 
My new carbing method, i do it by weight! perfectly carbed in 30 seconds, maybe a minute, at 50 psi of shaking.....just needs to get cold! no fear of over, under carbing....

1 volume of co2 weighs 1.23oz's for a 5 gallon corny....

View attachment 696549

and there's a chart for how residual co2 there will be from fermentation, and temp....
Are you saying that you weigh the CO2 tank during carbonation, and when it loses 1.23 oz, you stop carbing?
 
Are you saying that you weigh the CO2 tank during carbonation, and when it loses 1.23 oz, you stop carbing?


pretty much...residule co2 from fermentation give it about 1 vol....i shoot for 2.1 i believe....and my scale is accurate to the tenth ounce.....still some kinks in it though, gotta keep the gas line from hanging on the tank for an accurate reading......`exciting stuff though! i might buy a seperate 5lb tank and reg for just carbing.....

anyway, the scale is only $27....my fridge sucks, so it still takes a couple dyas to get cold enough to pour though....(but i just need more full kegs in there! ;))
 
I would think you are ADDING CO2 dissolved to the weight of the liquid, thereby ADDING weight to the system.


no, i keep my co2 tank on a scale, and shake till it loses the right amount.....i think shaking a keg on the scale would kill the scale.....plus with the tank on the scale, while you're shaking the keg you can watch it go down 0.1oz at a time till ready.....
 
it stays on 24/7 if plugged into the wall also....i use it to detect leaks QUICK in my system.....why i got it, just had the off thought to use it for carbing too! and it works...


So no auto off with this scale? If so, I may have found a replacement for the Ultraship scale I've been using for the past few years.
 
So no auto off with this scale?

not when it's plugged into the wall...it's on 24/7....that's how i keep an eye on my co2, just a casual glance here and there, make it hasn't mysteriously lost an ounce or two for now reason.....it does seem to drift up a bit with the room temp, but i've gotten used to that....
 
Drifting up when warm? Must be the natural buoyancy of the headspace--increased gas over liquid as temp goes up.

Yes, I said that facetiously. I don't need @doug293cz to jump on my idiocy.
 
Realized I over carbed my beer. Have spent about 45 minutes trying to fix it and have gone thru 4 pints of beer. Can't let beer go to waste, lol. Purged the beer, put it at serving pressure and just going to let it sit cause I still have 2 additional pints waiting to be drunk since the foam has gone by now. CHEERS!! Love this forum!
 
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