Keg Force Carbing Methods Illustrated

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slackerlack said:
I moved my Belgian Dubbel to the secondary two weeks ago at 1.004 gravity. I don't think its going to clear up anymore. If I use this method to carbonate, do I still need to prime with sugar? This will be my first keg attempt.
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Nope...thats one of the advantages of kegging.
 
This has been a very helpful thread in getting my first batch kegged and carbed. I have a quick question though. I brewed an ESB 5 weeks ago, kegged it monday night in a 3 gallon keg. I let it sit for 12 hours in my kegerator to chill. tuesday afternoon, I took it out, put my co2 cylinder and regulator together and hooked the gas line up to the keg. I turned the tank on, then the regulator to 30 psi. I put the keg and the co2 tank/regulator in my kegerator and left it alone. Just now, I took everything out of the kegerator to hook up the beverage line, and noticed the low pressure gauge is down to zero. What's up with that? I turned the regulator off, hooked up the bev line and turned it up to 10 psi and pulled a pint. The beer is fantastic, well carbed, if slightly under. Why would my regulator read zero? In my excitement, I didn't read the high pressure gauge, so I don't know what's going on with that one, but could it be a leak, or the cold messing with the regulator?
 
I can't say for sure about the effects of low temp on the regulator but:
Why on earth put your C02 & reg in the kegerator? That just takes up valuable space you will soon wish to fill with further brews.
Leaking: yes it does occur & can be costly if you lose all your C02 (happened to me once).
My suggestion is you check carefully all new kegs & keep checking afterwards at intervals or between brews. Also consider buying a good supply of replacement quality O rings & renew regularly - this is not costly.
I have found one easy method to leak check is to pressurise an empty keg to between 5 & 10 psi & put it in the swimming pool. Of course you need a pool for this. The alternative (recommended by someone on this forum) is to cut a section of car tire inner tube & stretch it over the keg top, & then fill with sufficient water to be able to leak test. I guess you may have to experiment to find a suitable tube size.
I think your success was attributable to the fact you transferred sufficient C02 to allow a modest level of carbonation in the time available & either your reg stopped delivering or perhaps you had turned off your C02 cylinder without realising it.
 
Bobby what an informative thread! I have learned , laughed and groaned. I have read this entire thread in one sitting! What happened to the chemist who was going to quantify, document and provide a useful algorithm ? Where did the budding ,dirty butt light carpet dragging pseudo scientist go? I just embarked on my kegging quest, with my first keg happily under pressure. I hope it will turn out as planned and repay me my time spent reading . At this point I can't think of a single useful question I could ask.
Thank you all and Merry Christmas
Jim
 
peterlonz said:
I can't say for sure about the effects of low temp on the regulator but:
Why on earth put your C02 & reg in the kegerator? That just takes up valuable space you will soon wish to fill with further brews.
Leaking: yes it does occur & can be costly if you lose all your C02 (happened to me once).
My suggestion is you check carefully all new kegs & keep checking afterwards at intervals or between brews. Also consider buying a good supply of replacement quality O rings & renew regularly - this is not costly.
I have found one easy method to leak check is to pressurise an empty keg to between 5 & 10 psi & put it in the swimming pool. Of course you need a pool for this. The alternative (recommended by someone on this forum) is to cut a section of car tire inner tube & stretch it over the keg top, & then fill with sufficient water to be able to leak test. I guess you may have to experiment to find a suitable tube size.
I think your success was attributable to the fact you transferred sufficient C02 to allow a modest level of carbonation in the time available & either your reg stopped delivering or perhaps you had turned off your C02 cylinder without realising it.
Click to expand...

My wife won't let me drill a hole in our fridge, that's why my gas and reg are in the fridge with the keg.
 
Now that I am reading this thread I have a question about the length of the beer line. Should it be 5ft or 10ft? What do you prefer? Mine ad very short right now and I realize that is probably why I have foam issues with my beer.

What length do you all recommend?
 
dregus said:
Now that I am reading this thread I have a question about the length of the beer line. Should it be 5ft or 10ft? What do you prefer? Mine ad very short right now and I realize that is probably why I have foam issues with my beer.

What length do you all recommend?
Click to expand...

It partly depends on the temperature and pressure of beer, but I use 6-8 feet at 38-40 degrees F and about 11 PSI. The beer pours with just the right amount of foam.
 
Good question & I wish I could get it "just right".
FYI my 5mm internal diam lines are about 2.5 metres (say about 8 ft) long.
I generally try to deliver at about 5 to 8 psi but the gauge can't be read with precision at these low pressures. Result for me is always lots of foam. In particular the first few glasses are the worst.
If I burp the keg until I can barely read any gauge pressure, the pour results in modest (IE acceptable) foaming but I see fewer bubbles rising.
I know this will not help you directly but it may prompt another more knowledgeable poster to say something they might not otherwise cover.
 
peterlonz said:
Good question & I wish I could get it "just right".
FYI my 5mm internal diam lines are about 2.5 metres (say about 8 ft) long.
I generally try to deliver at about 5 to 8 psi but the gauge can't be read with precision at these low pressures. Result for me is always lots of foam. In particular the first few glasses are the worst.
If I burp the keg until I can barely read any gauge pressure, the pour results in modest (IE acceptable) foaming but I see fewer bubbles rising.
I know this will not help you directly but it may prompt another more knowledgeable poster to say something they might not otherwise cover.
Click to expand...

10' of 3/16 gives me very little foam at 11lbs
 
Yep, I read it all. Start to finish. Thanks to all for posting.

Looking for input since I've just kegged for the first time (been bottling for 2 years).

I have a 2.5 gallon corny keg that I just filled last night. I purged the oxygen and set the regulator at 12psi so I could target ~2.5 volumes while chilling at ~38 degrees.

I'm unclear on two things:
1) How long will it take to carb? I think I've read anywhere from 4 days to 2 weeks.
2) Do I need to change the serving psi when I'm ready to start drinking?

I have 5 feet of 1/2OD tubing with a simply cobra tap. No rise or formal setup, just the tube sitting on top of the keg until I want to pour it.

All of this reading was helpful, thanks. It allowed me the information that I needed to make a decision on "quick carbing" versus "set it and forget it".
 
Kealia said:
Yep, I read it all. Start to finish. Thanks to all for posting.

Looking for input since I've just kegged for the first time (been bottling for 2 years).

I have a 2.5 gallon corny keg that I just filled last night. I purged the oxygen and set the regulator at 12psi so I could target ~2.5 volumes while chilling at ~38 degrees.

I'm unclear on two things:
1) How long will it take to carb? I think I've read anywhere from 4 days to 2 weeks.
2) Do I need to change the serving psi when I'm ready to start drinking?

I have 5 feet of 1/2OD tubing with a simply cobra tap. No rise or formal setup, just the tube sitting on top of the keg until I want to pour it.

All of this reading was helpful, thanks. It allowed me the information that I needed to make a decision on "quick carbing" versus "set it and forget it".
Click to expand...

I would say one week for 2.5 gallons. That is how long it takes when I fil l a5 gallon corny half full.

I force carb at 12psi and serve at the same pressure. Works great.
 
How long and what size is your tube?


Man, never thought I would ask anybody THAT question!
 
Interesting - I actually have 5 feet of 1/4" ID tubing. I still have some folks (other boards, friends) that say this will work while the consensus here is to move it to 10 feet.

I guess I will pour a pint or two this Friday and see how it works before I make any changes but I will keep 10 feet of 3/16' ID as my next option.

Thanks guys.
 
Kealia said:
Interesting - I actually have 5 feet of 1/4" ID tubing. I still have some folks (other boards, friends) that say this will work while the consensus here is to move it to 10 feet.

I guess I will pour a pint or two this Friday and see how it works before I make any changes but I will keep 10 feet of 3/16' ID as my next option.

Thanks guys.
Click to expand...

5 feet of 1/4ID line isn't nearly enough line restriction if you plan to serve on a balanced system.
 
Kealia said:
Interesting - I actually have 5 feet of 1/4" ID tubing. I still have some folks (other boards, friends) that say this will work while the consensus here is to move it to 10 feet.

I guess I will pour a pint or two this Friday and see how it works before I make any changes but I will keep 10 feet of 3/16' ID as my next option.

Thanks guys.
Click to expand...

Most of those folks probably adhere to the "serving pressure" construct.
 
awarner322 said:
Can anybody in hear speak to the difference/similarity of these techniques for kegging a hard cider? I have one that is ready to be either bottled or kegged...with the issue of a bottle bomb, kegging seems to be the better option...however I have no experience with cider since it is my first go-round with it...anyone have any suggesions/tips/help?
Click to expand...

Process for carbing is the same. Though if I were you I would add the appropriate amounts of sulphite and campden before your carbonate.

My process is to take a cider fermented dry (8-9% alc) and put about 3-3.5 gallons in a bottling bucket with about 1-5-2 gallons of double sweet cider (fresh unpasteurized cider I have frozen and let half thaw and pour off extra sweet cider for backsweetening).

In short,
1. add had cider, sorbate and fresh cider to the bucket to taste.
2. add campden tablets to the keg and rack into the keg. Then carb to your preference.

I usually carb/serve at 14-16psi. Yields a cider in the 6ish abv range.
 
That's the clear impression that I am getting. What I can't get consensus on is whether I need 5 feet or 10 feet of 3/16" ID. I have a friend with an 11-keg keezer that swears by 5 feet of 3/6"ID at 10-12psi.

Most of what I see here recommends 10 feet of 3/16" ID tubing so I guess I'll pick some up and wait and see what happens with 5 feet to start. I'm convinced at this point that 1/4" ID ain't right, though!
 
I can tell you that I use 5' of 3/16" at 10-12 lbs and it works good. When I bought a new faucet, I screwed up and bought 5' of 1/4"...HUGE MISTAKE! Not nearly enough resistance.
 
Kealia said:
That's the clear impression that I am getting. What I can't get consensus on is whether I need 5 feet or 10 feet of 3/16" ID. I have a friend with an 11-keg keezer that swears by 5 feet of 3/6"ID at 10-12psi.

Most of what I see here recommends 10 feet of 3/16" ID tubing so I guess I'll pick some up and wait and see what happens with 5 feet to start. I'm convinced at this point that 1/4" ID ain't right, though!
Click to expand...

Worst case for too long a hose, too much line restriction your pour will be slow, but usually no foam issues (unless you have WAY WAY too much line restriction). Worst case for a short hose is that you don't have enough line restriction, even by a little, and you get glasses of foam. Easier to cut a hose that is too long.

Pending you have a fully carbed and stable brew in your keg, I would start with 15 ft of line and set to 12psi (or your desired carb level) and pour. Too slow? cut a foot off, rinse and repeat until you get to the right length.

The only way you could use the 5ft 1/4 ID hose is if you crank the PSI down to 2-5psi to serve it. However over time your beer will go nearly flat. That is why most people shoot for a balanced system so they can set the PSI and leave it.

Personally I have my 4 taps running upstairs to two dual towers (and one stout tap in the basement). I have each tap set to run the best in a certain PSI range based on what i am serving because I keep a variety(line 1 = 18-22PSI; line 2 = 14-18pis; line 3 = 11-15psi; line 4 = 9-13psi). So the beer line for tap 2 is shorter than tap one, and tap 3 shorter than tap 2, etc. because less resistance is needed as the PSI value goes down. I always have a draft cider on tap (higher PSI) and right now have a belgian golden (higher PSI), a brown ale (regular PSI) and an IPA (lower PSI). Trust me it was really awesome setting all those lines up line that! :rolleyes:

Obviously you haven't gotten this crazy, but my point is to illustrate that you use the temperature chart + PSI to determine your carbonation. THEN use your line length to set the restriction for your PSI to get a proper pour. These are two separate things. You can't go from a low carbed bitter set at 9psi to a high carbed cider set at 18psi using the same length hose - you will have foaming issues. YMMV


for me 5' of 3/16 bevlex ID on a cobra tap was too fast when I carbed to 12PSI for my system. Pour was ok, but too fast and I would get about 2 inches of foam with each pour once the keg was stable. My keezer temp is around 32-34F though.
 
CidahMastah said:
Worst case for a short hose is that you don't have enough line restriction, even by a little, and you get glasses of foam. Easier to cut a hose that is too long.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I like head on the beer, but not a glass full of foam.

CidahMastah said:
The only way you could use the 5ft 1/4 ID hose is if you crank the PSI down to 2-5psi to serve it. However over time your beer will go nearly flat. That is why most people shoot for a balanced system so they can set the PSI and leave it.
Click to expand...

That's my goal. I have no interest is playing with the psi back-and-forth to keep it carbed and serving at the right level.
 
It may sound complicated but it isn't. It only made sense to me when I thought of carbonation level and line length being separate and distinct aspects to determining a balanced system. i.e. your carb level does not determine your needed line resistance; your PSI does. Good luck!
 
Just an update for those that have posted information for me - and others who may be reading. On Friday I bought 5' of 3/16ID hose and pulled my first pint. Pretty foamy - like 90% or so. It had been on 12psi for 1 week and I left it there to serve it.

Not sure if I was supposed to bleed the CO2 pressure before serving (but I don't think so).
In any case, the beer was green and not ready to drink. In all of my excitement to use my new toys, I went directly from primary (2 weeks) to 1 week on gas without any conditioning at all. When I bottle prime I typically let them sit for 4 weeks at room temp before tasting one so I pulled the keg out of the fridge and intend to let it sit for 2 weeks at room temp and try again.

That being said, can somebody confirm for me:
I do NOT need to bleed the keg before the first pour, right?

My current plan is to put it back on 12psi CO2 at ~39 degrees for about 4 days after the 2 weeks back at room temp.
 
I dint think there us any. reason to put it at room temp. My guess is a couple of things. One, first pint is usually foamy and a throwaway because of settling stuff etc. And the first pint drawn on any given day will also be more foamy than the rest I've found.
Second, I think five feet is a bit short. Unless you actually calculate and
balance your lines with formulas, then it is always safer to start with a long line and then cut it shorter if it doesn't pour right. A sign of a short line is always foamy pours. Try 8 feet and see what a difference that makes.
 
Well...my beers have always tasted better with 2-4 weeks of room temp conditioning so that's why I pulled it back out (nothing to do with carbonation).

I've played with a few different calculators and gotten advice here and it looks like it's narrowed down to either 5' or 10'. I'll check again in 2 weeks with my 5' line (pouring two pints) and then move to 10' if that doesn't work.
 
line is too short, that is why it is foaming.

The reason you have to vent it to get an ok pour is that the line is too short and your restriction isn't enough (causing foam); already discussed on this thread.

If I were you I would just leave the keg in the keezer on the gas. It will condition sitting in there and doesn't have to be at room temp to condition. This will also lead to a more stable carb by the time it is ready to drink.
 
Here is my plan:

Hit the keg with 30 psi for 24 hours, bleed it and then let it rest for a week at 10ish psi before drinking.

Any suggestions?

Also, should I let the keg chill overnight before turning on the co2 at 30 psi?
 
yep, chilling is better. Why? It takes less psi to acheive the same co2 volume when it is colder. If you are kegging, you'll find that a co2 volume/temperature d
chart is really handy. Lots of them out there on the inertweb and some on here too I suppose.
 
texag06ish said:
Here is my plan:

Hit the keg with 30 psi for 24 hours, bleed it and then let it rest for a week at 10ish psi before drinking.

Any suggestions?

Also, should I let the keg chill overnight before turning on the co2 at 30 psi?
Click to expand...

my routine is 55psi right when I put in the keezer (so the keg is like 62-65F ish. After about 24hrs it is cold and a servable carb (but not usually up to perfection). After 24hrs I burp the keg and set it to the desired pis (10-18psi depending on the brew).

You don't need to let it rest for more than a couple hours to try and pull off a test pint. YMMV

couple notes. My brews sit in the fermenter for 3 weeks at a minimum, so they are pretty much done degassing. Most of the time I have a pipeline in place so the brews have been relaxing for 4-6 weeks. I used to do this when I only had 4 kegs... It still worked but I just got green beer that was perfectly carbed within 5-7 days :D
 
CidahMastah said:
my routine is 55psi right when I put in the keezer (so the keg is like 62-65F ish. After about 24hrs it is cold and a servable carb (but not usually up to perfection). After 24hrs I burp the keg and set it to the desired pis (10-18psi depending on the brew).

You don't need to let it rest for more than a couple hours to try and pull off a test pint. YMMV

couple notes. My brews sit in the fermenter for 3 weeks at a minimum, so they are pretty much done degassing. Most of the time I have a pipeline in place so the brews have been relaxing for 4-6 weeks. I used to do this when I only had 4 kegs... It still worked but I just got green beer that was perfectly carbed within 5-7 days :D
Click to expand...

When you complete
 
Update: I put on my 5' of 3/16" ID tubing last night and poured a pint. PERFECTION!

WOO HOO!

Thanks to everybody for posting, sharing and dealing with a kegging newbie.

I already bought a second one from MoreBeer......here we go.
 
Does anyone keg into a sixstle sanke? This will be my first time kegging and have 2 small sanke's.
I want to sanatize and run carb and flow through the kegerator. Can anyone give me some advise on how they do it.
 

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