just had a near-miss

[Bedlam]

if he would have slowed down, he probably could have even made a turn or simply avoided me. he paniced.

Ohhhh, I see. You were in HIS lane, HIS right-of-way, but it's HIS job to avoid you?

Makes perfect sense to me now...

Methinks if he'd been speeding too badly, the two officers at the scene would have ticketed him.

Bottom line here is that if you hadn't nosed out into his lane and made out like you were going to hit him, he wouldn't have fallen down. As we say in Texas, "Man Up" --take responsibility for your wrongdoing. No matter how insurance shakes out, do a nice thing for the guy, like a gift certificate to a bike shop so he can have a little help replacing some gear. (If he smacked his helmet, he'll need to buy a new one. Helmets are made to take ONE sizable hit, that's it. )

 

[Joker]

Ohhhh, I see. You were in HIS lane, HIS right-of-way, but it's HIS job to avoid you?

Makes perfect sense to me now...

Methinks if he'd been speeding too badly, the two officers at the scene would have ticketed him.

Bottom line here is that if you hadn't nosed out into his lane and made out like you were going to hit him, he wouldn't have fallen down. As we say in Texas, "Man Up" --take responsibility for your wrongdoing. No matter how insurance shakes out, do a nice thing for the guy, like a gift certificate to a bike shop so he can have a little help replacing some gear. (If he smacked his helmet, he'll need to buy a new one. Helmets are made to take ONE sizable hit, that's it. )

Interesting twist you have put on it. He wasn't blocking the lane so the motorcycles right of way was still there. That is like saying if a pedestrain steps off the curb and I swerve to much to avoid him and his something its his fault. (pedestrain not in crosswalk before you use that)

If the rider was speeding (not saying he was) he has some responsibility as well, also if that is all the better he can control his motorcycle perhaps he should not be riding one on the road. Everyday someone will do something you don't plan on them doing if he is going to hit the pavement everytime he is in deep trouble.

 

[SparkyBrew]

This one could be tricky. A lawyer might say you were legally at fault for failure to yield, even if the guy was coming at light speed, or something close. I ride and know bikes are difficult to see at times, and if speeding all bets are off.

 

[Joker]

Another item to note, this is California where motorcycles ride the line on the freeway. So lane sharing is not something new to them.

 

[uglygoat]

As a motorcyclist, I actually appreciate the spinner rims. It alerts me to the presence of a ********* before they even make a move. Without them, we'd have to wait until the driver actually does something stupid to realize they're a *********. :cross:

this post delivers!

 

[DeathBrewer]

Ohhhh, I see. You were in HIS lane, HIS right-of-way, but it's HIS job to avoid you?

Makes perfect sense to me now...

Methinks if he'd been speeding too badly, the two officers at the scene would have ticketed him.

Bottom line here is that if you hadn't nosed out into his lane and made out like you were going to hit him, he wouldn't have fallen down. As we say in Texas, "Man Up" --take responsibility for your wrongdoing. No matter how insurance shakes out, do a nice thing for the guy, like a gift certificate to a bike shop so he can have a little help replacing some gear. (If he smacked his helmet, he'll need to buy a new one. Helmets are made to take ONE sizable hit, that's it. )

dude, i didn't "make out that i was going to hit him." i was making a legal turn and he came up on me outta nowhere. remember also that no one got ticketed. the officer even asked me if i was actually making the turn and accepted "no, i stopped when i saw him."

if he would've been going the speed limit, i could have even made the turn without any consequences. i'm not saying i don't feel bad that it happened, and i'm not saying it's one hundred percent his fault, i'm just saying it was an unnecessary accident.

and i'm not buying him anything. i don't have his personal information and he doesn't have mine. that's how trouble starts...damned if anyone i get into any kind of accident with is getting my phone number. We'll let the insurance companies deal with it.

speaking of which, i'm going to follow up with a call right now.

 

[DeathBrewer]

Another item to note, this is California where motorcycles ride the line on the freeway. So lane sharing is not something new to them.

yeah, you can legally split lanes. This is where you have to be really careful. there's one merging lane (the last one before my exit to go home) where people fly onto the freeway when i'm trying to get off. It's hard enough to see the cars...i'm always concerned there will be a bike there.

there was a guy on the radio once that said everyone should open their doors on them. boy, did he get some **** for that!

 

[Fingers]

If he was speeding, that's why you didn't see him. It's likely your field of vision was taking in hazards that are in the 'zone' where a vehicle travelling at the speed limit would reside. Even if you did see him, you would assume that he was travelling at a speed that would take him x amount of time to reach you. You base your decisions on that. So you start to make your turn and realize that this guy is moving at a rate that doesn't fit your mental calculations.

There are two different 'at fault' scenarios here. There's the one where someone is really at fault, and there's the legal at fault. Legally, you're probably both at fault because if either one of you is taken out of the equation, the incident would not have happened. As a former biker myself, I say the rider was at fault. When you go fast, you have to realize that you're not playing by the rules so you can't whine when things go badly.

As many have said here, we get cut off all the time. It got so that I was used to it and didn't even notice many times. I've had friends apologize to me for cutting me off at work when we arrived at the same time. I couldn't recall the incident. It's a fact of riding. You're riding because it's thrilling and a little bit dangerous, so don't complain when you get some negative consequences of your fun.

 

[Bedlam]

Here we go:



That's just how I roll, man.

This is my fav:

 

[DFW_Warrior]

Oh this is going to be fun.....

So lets see, you didn't see the motorcyclist soon enough to avoid making partial entry into HIS lane, but somehow your lighting observation could deduce his current rate of speed and all the other traffic conditions? Yep, I'm sorry but that's a crock.

The bike was in his lane, and you moved into it, period. There is no partially blocked him or anything. Just because it's a bike, you morons think that they only need a little part of the road. He was in the lane, so the entire lane is his.

And I also agree with the others on here that said if he was going at such a high rate of speed that I'm sure the po-po would have given him a ticket for reckless driving, exhibition of acceleration, failure to maintain control, or a host of other citations they could toss at him.

As to the comment about every sportbike speeds, that is another crock of you know what. That is the exact same as me coming on here and saying everyone that homebrew's is a stupid drunk, that is a burden on our society. Not a very accurate statement now is it? The people that say every sprotbike, or every motorcycle speeds are usually the same people that say, "I never saw him coming, until it was too late." Then they try to make themselves feel better by trying to negate the fact that they just caused an accident by pinning it on the other person.

You caused a rider to panic by you not paying attention and pulling into his lane, from a liquor store no less... aka, hopeless drunk. Not funny when the shoe is on the other foot is it? Then to try and make yourself feel better about causing someone to crash, you try to pin it on them. Congrats to you, yet another human on this planet incapable of taking responsibility for their own actions. Welcome to being sub-par.

Whether you are legally in the wrong by the eyes of the insurance companies, who knows. They fight it out and take the cheapest way out to resolve it. now whether you are morally responsible, I think that shouldn't even be a question here. But then again, I've seen more moronic questions asked in the past and I'm sure I'll see them again.

BTW, don't get me started on lane splitting, because I don't honestly feel that is safe, or fair. Why should I get to cut in line just because I'm on two wheels? I've never gotten that, and I won't ever get it in the future either.

Have a great day, and cheers.

 

[NUTT]

I'm a registered lurker and I have an opinion here.

It sounds like the original poster caused an accident & is at fault. All I hear is "speeding motorcyclist" blah blah blah "rider could have stopped/swerved/avoided the accident" blah blah blah. Man up, it is your fault. The police dropped the ball at the scene; you should have been cited for causing the accident. The insurance companies will probably have you cover the repairs on the bike & replacement of any gear. FYI, the helmet/jacket/pants/boots/gloves that are pretty much standard riding gear cost around $800 - $1500.

I ride a motorcycle daily. I was involved in an accident similar to this back in August. I left a light, was riding around the speed limit next to a minivan when some jerk in a VW Jetta decided to take a left across the lane I was driving in. I grabbed a whole lot of front brake and hit the ground doing about 45 mph. Fun stuff, let me tell you.

I also hear a lot of "if's" in this thread. You know what... if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. If I'd have tried to swerve around the car that pulled in front of me I'd have hit it. If you'd have pulled out just a little bit farther, you'd have caused that bike to hit you even if he was trying to slow down. If you'd have pulled out a little bit farther and he was trying to avoid you, he'd have hit you doing 35/45/55 and he'd likely be dead.

It is a good thing you didn't kill a motorcyclist that day.

 

[Rick_R]

but somehow your lighting observation could deduce his current rate of speed and all the other traffic conditions? Yep, I'm sorry but that's a crock.
. . .
if he was going at such a high rate of speed that I'm sure the po-po would have given him a ticket for reckless driving, exhibition of acceleration, failure to maintain control, or a host of other citations they could toss at him.

*laugh*

More impressive than the OP's ability to deduce in a split second the bike's rate of speed and traffic conditions is your ability to do so without having even been there.

Do all riders speed? No. Do some? Heck, yes, and this could have been one of those cases. Not being there, I'll give DeathBrewer the benefit of the doubt, while recognizing and agreeing that all of us should try and keep a better look out for motorcycle riders.

Rick

 

[DFW_Warrior]

*laugh*

More impressive than the OP's ability to deduce in a split second the bike's rate of speed and traffic conditions is your ability to do so without having even been there.

I never said that he wasn't speeding at all. But if he was going as fast as the OP said he was, then the consequences would have been much worse. And this opinion is coming from 23 years of riding experience. You don't walk away from a crash at 40+ MPH with no scrapes, or bruising whatsoever.

This was just one of the comments from one of the other motorcycle boards where this post is getting discussed. "What if the guy caused a Mom carrying two kids in a mini-van to crash?" Would you all come running to his defense like you are now? Me thinks not. But somehow, riding a motorcycle makes it ok that this guy crashed due to the negligence of someone not paying attention behind the wheel.

Bottom line, the guy entered the motorcyclists lane, caused him to panic, and thus causing him to crash. Could the rider done things differently, I'm sure he could have. But should he have to avoid vehicles pulling out in front of him simply because he is on two wheels instead of four, hell no. He should be given the same respect as anyone else on the road.

 

[Rick_R]

But somehow, riding a motorcycle makes it ok that this guy crashed due to the negligence of someone not paying attention behind the wheel.

I'm willing to accept the OP's statement that the cycle was speeding where -- for some odd reason -- you don't seem to do so. Assume for a second the motorcycle rider was speeding and, for the sake of argument, significantly speeding. Does that make a difference in your mind? If not, then no more discussion is useful because it does make a difference in my mind, whether the oncoming traffic is a cycle or a car.

Rick

 

[DFW_Warrior]

I'm willing to accept the OP's statement that the cycle was speeding where -- for some odd reason -- you don't seem to do so. Assume for a second the motorcycle rider was speeding and, for the sake of argument, significantly speeding. Does that make a difference in your mind? If not, then no more discussion is useful because it does make a difference in my mind, whether the oncoming traffic is a cycle or a car.

Rick

Yes it does make a difference in my mind. But we are only hearing one side of the story (from a guy leaving a liquor store no less), and I've heard all these comments before. "Man, that guy was flying!", "All motorcycles do is wheelie, and speed", "we should open car doors as they pass", and so forth. Plain and simple, the guy traveling straight, in his lane, had right of way. Are you disputing this fact? If so, then you're a moron and go back to drinking your alcohol. The OP encroached into a lane where he did NOT have right of way. Are you going to dispute this fact as well? I certainly hope not since he admitted to it.

I'm not disputing that the rider may have been speeding. But I highly doubt from my years of riding experience that if the rider had been going at the rate of speed the poster said he was, then there would have been quite a few more injuries. Again, this is just from a couple hundred thousand miles and 23 years of riding.

I honestly think we have a little bit of a fish story here, so some guy can make himself feel better about making a motorcyclist crash.

So let me ask you a question now, in all your years of riding motorcycles, how fast do you think someone has to be going when they fall and not sustain any injuries at all? I'd really like to know this.

Go ahead, wow me with your years of riding experience and prove me wrong.

 

[bradsul]

IB4TL!6789

 

[DeathBrewer]

Yes it does make a difference in my mind. But we are only hearing one side of the story (from a guy leaving a liquor store no less), and I've heard all these comments before. "Man, that guy was flying!", "All motorcycles do is wheelie, and speed", "we should open car doors as they pass", and so forth. Plain and simple, the guy traveling straight, in his lane, had right of way. Are you disputing this fact? If so, then you're a moron and go back to drinking your alcohol. The OP encroached into a lane where he did NOT have right of way. Are you going to dispute this fact as well? I certainly hope not since he admitted to it.

I'm not disputing that the rider may have been speeding. But I highly doubt from my years of riding experience that if the rider had been going at the rate of speed the poster said he was, then there would have been quite a few more injuries. Again, this is just from a couple hundred thousand miles and 23 years of riding.

I honestly think we have a little bit of a fish story here, so some guy can make himself feel better about making a motorcyclist crash.

So let me ask you a question now, in all your years of riding motorcycles, how fast do you think someone has to be going when they fall and not sustain any injuries at all? I'd really like to know this.

Go ahead, wow me with your years of riding experience and prove me wrong.

heh. alright.

FYI: dude swerved back and forth for some time, almost caught himself, lost control and crashed. i think he was rather lucky he didn't get hurt worse.

yes, you only have one side of the opinion. but i never said that motorcyclists all drive like maniacs. i never said that I think people should open their doors on them. i feel quite the opposite. my roommate rides a motorcycle and has had a few crashes. i have a friend that died last year in a motorcycle accident. i don't ride one because i don't like the idea of messing myself up (i hurt my back last year, and am still suffering from it.) that doesn't mean that i think people can't or shouldn't ride motorcycles and it sure as hell doesn't mean i'm not careful and considerate to bikers. if anything, the past has made me more courteous. believe me, the last thing i want is to even SEE is someone crash their bike.

i also didn't say he was going 60 MPH. i simply stated the fact that he was going significantly faster than the other traffic and he was definitely going over the speed limit.

and the purpose of this thread was not to make anyone feel better. it was to state an incident that scared the crap out of me and to see people's opinions on who would be at fault LEGALLY in the incident.

and i was actually going TO the liquor store and i hadn't been drinking, so what kind of a comment is that and what difference does it make? pretty stupid to base your opinion on that, especially on a homebrew forum.

should've known this would escalate and someone would decide to be an ass. sorry, everyone.

 

[olllllo]

DFW_Warrior

Not the best use of your first 3 posts. Cool it.

 

[Rick_R]

Yes it does make a difference in my mind.

You can't tell it.

But we are only hearing one side of the story

True. Why you assume the OP's lying, I've no idea. But true.

I've heard all these comments before. "Man, that guy was flying!", "All motorcycles do is wheelie, and speed", "we should open car doors as they pass", and so forth.

Good for you. Does this excuse a cyclist riding like an idiot? No.

Plain and simple, the guy traveling straight, in his lane, had right of way. Are you disputing this fact?

You and I agree it makes a difference if he's speeding; what's to dispute?

Again, this is just from a couple hundred thousand miles and 23 years of riding.

Congratulations; I'm most impressed that it gives you psychic abilities.

Go ahead, wow me with your years of riding experience and prove me wrong.

Only rode for about eight years and that was better than twenty years ago. In my experience from then and to now, though, nothing has changed; some folks who ride motorcycles are idiots. Some of them speed, some of the pop wheelies, some pass on the median, some decide the speed limit is a suggestion. Not all are idiots, certainly most are not -- but some are. This could be such a case.

If so, then you're a moron and go back to drinking your alcohol.

Ah. Dealing with a child. That ends the discussion.

Rick

 

[Rick_R]

You know, I hadn't noticed DFW_Warrior was a new member and just realized he heard about this thread on some other board and came here for the express purpose of this argument. He is upset that folks might have preconceptions about motorcycle riders, so comes and joins the homebrewtalk forums to fight those preconceptions. In the process he tells me I need to "go back to drinking [my] alcohol" and wonders what it suggests that the OP was leaving a liquor store.

Ironic, isn't it.

Rick

 

[DFW_Warrior]

You know, I hadn't noticed DFW_Warrior was a new member and just realized he heard about this thread on some other board and came here for the express purpose of this argument. He is upset that folks might have preconceptions about motorcycle riders, so comes and joins the homebrewtalk forums to fight those preconceptions. In the process he tells me I need to "go back to drinking [my] alcohol" and wonders what it suggests that the OP was leaving a liquor store.

Ironic, isn't it.

Rick

wow... you're a bright one alright. So it looks like you've finally figured out what I've been trying to imply the whole time. Congrats on your quick wit.

 

[CADFather]

Wow Bill, you weren't kidding this guy really is clueless about what he did wrong.

First an introduction, I am the CADFather, and I have dabbled in home brewing in the past, but as an alcoholic I have found it best not to brew anymore. I am however a motorcyclist who suffered a major crash September 18, 2006. The crash involved a "oblivi-tard" that was parked in the median of an interstate and needed to turn at the next exit. The "oblivi-tard" had stopped in the median (left shoulder) to check his map and see if he needed to take the next exit (right shoulder) as it turns out he did. So the "oblivi-tard" decides that he needs to make the turn and pulls back out into traffic, cutting across 5 lanes of traffic to get to the exit, only he doesn't make it any farther than the third lane. That is where we met one another.

I was travelling in the third lane of the interstate AT the posted speed limit on my 2002 Road Star Warrior, when I saw this "oblivi-tard" pull out from the median cutting across traffic. I immediately start processing my options (first mistake, I should have already had my options considered before getting in this position)

1. I could try to stop, not going to happen and even if it does the soccer mom in the van directly behind me would rear end me.

2. I could try to avoid the "oblivi-tard" by cutting in his direction of travel and hope to get around him and the 18 -wheeler directly to my right.

3. I could try to avoid the "oblivi-tard" by cutting opposite to his direction of travel and hopefully miss colliding with him.

I chose option #3, and as it turns out, the "oblivi-tard" was only running about 15 mph on his mad dash across the interstate during monday morning rush hour, I was running 55 mph according to the police reports and witnesses. I impacted the "oblivi-tard" from the rear and in the crash, suffered major head trauma, that resulted in my having a stroke, a distal femur and tibial plateau fracture of the right leg, the bones of my thumb on my left hand were broken in several places, several cracked ribs and 4 cracked vertebrae in my neck. I went into a coma when I got to the hospital which I was in for 15 days after I woke up I underwent several surgeries to repair the knee, and then the hand, and at some point suffered a stroke from the head trauma. The surgeons said that I was very lucky to have survived the first couple of nights, and that I would probably never walk again. I'm 41 years old, an avid outdoorsman, I hunt, fish, play paint-ball, re-enact the American Civil War or well used to do those things. I can walk but only with the use of a cane and can't get over broken ground very well, but I'm not in that wheelchair or on a walker and my orthopedic surgeon says he can't explain how.

Basically I wound up with a little over $1,500,000 in hospital bills and have to disclose that I've had a stroke on my medical records, will walk with a limp the rest of my life, and the "oblivi-tard"? Well he got cited with "reckless driving" which carries a $50.00 fine and 8 hours community service. That was his punishment and in the eyes of the law we're even. His excuse for pulling out into traffic when he went to court for the "Reckless Driving" charge "He didn't see me." When asked "Why, he didn't see me" by the judge, his answer was "'Cause he was speedin." The judge having already heard the testimony of the 4 witnesses and the 2 police officers told the "oblivi-tard," "Don't go there, you werent paying attention to what you were doing and caused this accident."

Well, in summary sir, I say to you in the same vein as the judge told the other "oblivi-tard" in my case, "Don't go there, you werent paying attention to what you were doing and caused this accident."

(This is a very true story and it did happen to me, here are some photos of the bike and the x-ray of my knee.)

Before the crash:

And After:

 

[DFW_Warrior]

FYI: dude swerved back and forth for some time, almost caught himself, lost control and crashed. i think he was rather lucky he didn't get hurt worse.....

i also didn't say he was going 60 MPH. i simply stated the fact that he was going significantly faster than the other traffic and he was definitely going over the speed limit.

and the purpose of this thread was not to make anyone feel better. it was to state an incident that scared the crap out of me and to see people's opinions on who would be at fault LEGALLY in the incident.

Let's see.. he was speeding WAY faster than traffic, now it's not faster than 60, and pretty soon it will be around 40, which if I were a better man, would be pretty close to the posted limits on a given city street. Yep, you're story is sounding better and better every day.

Now he had time to swerve back and forth several times (probably due to his rear wheel locking up), and tried to save it, but lack of traction eventually caught up to him and he lowsided it. And he had time to do all this, all while going at a high rate of speed? I'm sorry bud, but I don't buy it. I've ridden too long to see how this is plausible. Accidents don't unfold like this at high rates of speed, never have never will. You're right, I'm not physic, never said I was. But it appears that I do have a little more common sense, and the ability to tell when the facts don't line up. Which happens to be the case with your "story".

You're asking LEGAL information on a beer brewing website??? Sorry, that in itself is funny to me. I don't have to argue if you are trying to skate away from anything. Anyone reading the post can form their own opinions.

 

[DFW_Warrior]

DFW_Warrior

Not the best use of your first 3 posts. Cool it.

Sorry... just hearing some of these fish stories, and seeing how they change over the course of a thread is quite amusing to me, and the hundred's of other motorcyclists reading this thread. I just try to point out the obvious. No hard feelings.

 

[dmonty]

… the purpose of this thread was not to make anyone feel better. it was to state an incident that scared the crap out of me and to see people's opinions on who would be at fault LEGALLY in the incident.

In general, laws are predicated on the basis that the last person who could have prevented an undesired outcome is the one most at fault.

The motorcyclist was undoubtedly a contributor by virtue of ‘speeding’ but it was ultimately your involvement which created the ‘emergency’ which needed to be avoided.

Since there was no collision I sincerely doubt you will be held legally accountable but don’t think for a second that you did not contributed to this accident. Whatever the outcome... learn from it.

 

[DFW_Warrior]

what do ya think? any chance this will come back to haunt me? i'd fight it, for sure (as i'm sure my insurance company will) but what are the chances i even need to worry about it?

This little phrase speaks volumes for your character. I don't have to say a thing.

BTW, welcome to the forum CAD. This truly is the best HomeBrew forum on the www.

 

[olllllo]

OK Points made all around.

New guys. If you want to post about beer then stick around, otherwise this is all OT (which is fine unless it becomes a point of conflict).

Let's get back to beer.

 

[olllllo]

Debate is fine.
Personal attacks are not.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=45396

Do not carry this into other threads or you will be banned.

 

[Orfy]

You ARE being watched.

Like olllllo say's if you joined to be a community member fine and welcome.
Joining for any other reason is spam.

 

[Yooper]

wow... you're a bright one alright. So it looks like you've finally figured out what I've been trying to imply the whole time. Congrats on your quick wit.

No nasty sarcasm, please. You are welcome to discuss issues. Calling people morons, and making nasty remarks is not allowed, however. Please stick to the topic.