New England IPA Julius clone (BYO magazine)

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Might seem like an unnecessary question, but do you just double all ingredients when applying a 5 gal recipe to make a 10 gal batch? And what challenges have you found with 10 gal batches? I haven't started brewing yet, been building up my equipment and figured I should do a couple 5 gal batches before I jump into 10 gal.
 
Davevjordon said:
Might seem like an unnecessary question, but do you just double all ingredients when applying a 5 gal recipe to make a 10 gal batch? And what challenges have you found with 10 gal batches? I haven't started brewing yet, been building up my equipment and figured I should do a couple 5 gal batches before I jump into 10 gal.
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Honestly I have never done 10 gallons batches but the best investment I made was Beer Smith 2. Beer Smith will scale batch sizes for you and adjust everything accordingly.
 
So I don't have any hop oil extract but I do have some NZ hops that I was thinking of using as bittering hop,Rakau 9.5 alpha acid and Motueka 7.5 alpha acid.
If I were to use these what sort of amount would I be looking at to compensate for the hop oil.

I'm making a 3 gallon batch, having scaled down from the 5 g recipe.

Any suggestions welcome. I'm getting a grainfather delivered for the weekend and this will be the first brew!

Excited!
 
Davevjordon said:
Might seem like an unnecessary question, but do you just double all ingredients when applying a 5 gal recipe to make a 10 gal batch? And what challenges have you found with 10 gal batches? I haven't started brewing yet, been building up my equipment and figured I should do a couple 5 gal batches before I jump into 10 gal.
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DrGMG said:
Yea, use BeerSmith. It's not as simple as doubling up the ingredients.
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dmenace86 said:
Converting a recipe is linear. If going from 5 gallons to 10 gallons just double the ingredients. If going from 10 to 5 divide in half. However, keep in mind that your efficiency may be different than whoever posted the recipe, so you may end up with a higher, or lower, OG, even if following the recipe exactly. Not a big deal though, you'll just end up with a different ABV, assuming you reach the stated FG. I definitely agree about using software though. I personally use Beer Smith 2 as well, but there are others that are just as good. There are a lot of features that come in very handy. Anything from recipes to ingredient info, and everywhere in between.
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Meant to quote the other 2 posts to begin with. Not even 3pm, and apparently I've already had a few too many home brews...
 
So I am looking to give this brew a shot this weekend. I decided to go with Omega Labs DIPA Ale yeast rather than the 1318 London III after a long, hard inner-battle. Everything else I plan on keeping the same.

One major difference I am doing is I plan on bottling this rather than kegging... Has anyone brewed this and bottled? Are you cold crashing before bottling, or just bottling it then crashing in the bottles? Normally when I bottle, I am then storing the bottles around room temp and only putting them in the fridge before drinking... This will be my first NE IPA, so should I prepare for a different practice with this one?

Lastly, from what I gather throughout this thread fermentation doesn't seem like it should take the full 14 days (unless the FG is not falling). I'm getting it should be around 10 or so, with the final 3-4 days being dry hopped, before crashing and/or kegging/bottling.

I'm really excited to try this out. I have never had the actual Julius, but have had a couple others from TH and they are fantastic. Brew day can't get here soon enough! Thanks to anyone in advance for the help.
 
I bottle and don't cold crash. I've used both Conan and 1318 for these recipes. I prefer 1318 but if you are using Conan, I recommend mashing a bit higher. Mid to upper 150's. Conan always seems to finish on the dry side. You can up your grain bill a notch to make up for the lower ABV if that matters to you.
 
danszabrew said:
Some brewers seem to think that you need a ton of yeast in suspension to make your beer hazy and that is just not true. I've used WLP 007 a bunch of times for NEIPA's which is a real heavy floccer.
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What temps were you fermenting at with this yeast? I use it alot at 64-68 deg. looking to try this.
 
paarman said:
So I am looking to give this brew a shot this weekend. I decided to go with Omega Labs DIPA Ale yeast rather than the 1318 London III after a long, hard inner-battle. Everything else I plan on keeping the same.

One major difference I am doing is I plan on bottling this rather than kegging... Has anyone brewed this and bottled? Are you cold crashing before bottling, or just bottling it then crashing in the bottles? Normally when I bottle, I am then storing the bottles around room temp and only putting them in the fridge before drinking... This will be my first NE IPA, so should I prepare for a different practice with this one?

Lastly, from what I gather throughout this thread fermentation doesn't seem like it should take the full 14 days (unless the FG is not falling). I'm getting it should be around 10 or so, with the final 3-4 days being dry hopped, before crashing and/or kegging/bottling.

I'm really excited to try this out. I have never had the actual Julius, but have had a couple others from TH and they are fantastic. Brew day can't get here soon enough! Thanks to anyone in advance for the help.
Click to expand...


There are some threads floating around saying that 1318 holds up the best when bottling this style, ie they don't turn to brown swamp water.

A few batches ago I did a kinda NEIPA with 1056, a month later they are brown.

I just did my first NEIPA with 1318. I cold crashed because my second round of DH did not drop. They have been bottle conditioning for a week and are starting to carb up. The color has not turned yet.
 
Most people believe the color change is due to oxidation. But that's a good experiment to make (bottle with different yeasts).
 
Well if this one doesn't turn out right, I'll try the 1318 next time. Just thought I'd switch it up and see what happens. I'll post results.. planning on brewing this Saturday.

My biggest hurdle now is trying to get the water right. I have bought bottled 5 gallon water in the past, but I have no idea what the mineral levels are without a test kit that I don't have. I have considered going RO instead, but haven't decided.
 
DrGMG said:
Get distilled water and use this if you can:

Water Profile: Ca 135 | Mg 1 | Na 10 | SO4 71 | Cl 186
Click to expand...

Thanks, I was actually leaning towards distilled after much reading on it yesterday.

So I've done much reading on the CaCl2:SO4 ratios, but I guess I am not fully understanding (or remembering from high school chemistry) how you separate the Ca numbers from the Cl #s. I have some Calcium Carbonate powder as well as gypsum, but how do you separate the values of CaCl in the instance above, where they are two different numbers (135 vs 186)? Is there something else I need to buy to increase them both separately? Maybe that's where I am confused.

If I need to be directed elsewhere to understand that, by all means, point me that way. Need to brush up on my chemistry, that's for sure haha. Thanks in advance.
 
paarman said:
Thanks, I was actually leaning towards distilled after much reading on it yesterday.

So I've done much reading on the CaCl2:SO4 ratios, but I guess I am not fully understanding (or remembering from high school chemistry) how you separate the Ca numbers from the Cl #s. I have some Calcium Carbonate powder as well as gypsum, but how do you separate the values of CaCl in the instance above, where they are two different numbers (135 vs 186)? Is there something else I need to buy to increase them both separately? Maybe that's where I am confused.

If I need to be directed elsewhere to understand that, by all means, point me that way. Need to brush up on my chemistry, that's for sure haha. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

The answer to more questions is to use the Bru'n Water spreadsheet. It will help you with your additions, but may also confuse the heck out of you.
 
Sbe2 said:
The answer to more questions is to use the Bru'n Water spreadsheet. It will help you with your additions, but may also confuse the heck out of you.
Click to expand...

isomerization said:
That's called learnin!
Click to expand...

You are right. I have it and have tried to go through and use it and it did confused the heck out of me haha. It's quite a bit of info, and having been removed from chemistry for, oh 13ish years, it's an overwhelming crash course, that's for sure. I understood some of it and I am attempting to cram a lot of learning into a short time as I need to pick up my water today, so I'm just lost on the part where CaCl is one number in some places and two separate numbers elsewhere.

I've since lessened my confusion a little bit by actually finding out how many ppm a gram or tsp of the minerals adds... That was one confusing part is the labels on these don't actually list that, just "how much to add per gallon".

Thanks for the tip(s).
 
paarman said:
You are right. I have it and have tried to go through and use it and it did confused the heck out of me haha. It's quite a bit of info, and having been removed from chemistry for, oh 13ish years, it's an overwhelming crash course, that's for sure. I understood some of it and I am attempting to cram a lot of learning into a short time as I need to pick up my water today, so I'm just lost on the part where CaCl is one number in some places and two separate numbers elsewhere.

I've since lessened my confusion a little bit by actually finding out how many ppm a gram or tsp of the minerals adds... That was one confusing part is the labels on these don't actually list that, just "how much to add per gallon".

Thanks for the tip(s).
Click to expand...

Take all the chemistry out of it and do the following:

1.) plug in your water values (or use DO/distilled)
2.) plug in your grain bill
3.) save a copy of this document for each recipe/iteration
4.) calculate your expected mash volume, sparge volume and desired water ion levels (you can use the custom selection to do this easily)
5.) play with the values for adding in SO4 (usually gypsum, but I do a little epsom for Mg too), Cl (usually calcium chloride, but i add a little canning salt for Na too) and if a dark beer, consider chalk/baking soda additions for mash pH control

Step 5 is kind of like a puzzle, where you add a little of this, a little of that and try to hit all the values you'd like while keeping mash pH in a respectable range.

While understanding all the chemistry is better than not, you don't need to since the spreadsheet is doing all the work for you!

RE the CaCl2 part, its because the ions dissociate in water, so what is stable as a solid in salt form (the 1 number), really plays 2 parts in beer in liquid form. Hope that makes sense!
 
So I think I have got it figured out now... Tell me if these numbers sound ballpark correct using with distilled water (basing it off ~4 gallons for the mash)

CaCl2 - 5g or 1 1/2 tsp
SO4 - 2g or 1/2 tsp

From what I calculate, that should bring the mash water to something like this:

Ca - 121
SO4 - 74
Cl - 159

If I wanted to bump up the Ca and Cl to get the above profile DrGMG mentioned, then I'd just add another gram of CaCl2, something like 1 3/4 tsp then I believe.

I'm hoping that sounds right or I am going to slam my head into the wall.. haha.

For anyone else that was confused by this as much as I was (or maybe it was just me), finding this helped tons http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3...h-ph/using-salts-for-brewing-water-adjustment ... I think the part that threw me off was finding out how much ppm is added by each additive. Once that clicked, it made much more sense to me finding the levels I needed to get to.
 
isomerization said:
That's called learnin!
Click to expand...

For sure, it's definitely easier for some people. For me it was easy to understand, but I have a solid base with my studies in geochemistry.

There should be a video on YouTube, I recall watching a primer on beersmith and bru'n water, when I bought beersmith.
 
Brew day went great-for the most part-on Saturday. One simple rookie mistake that I am just kicking myself for however. Took my SG once I was ready to boil and it came out at 1.040. I drew 7.5 gallons, which is more than I generally take, but I wanted to overshoot a bit to get closer to 6 gallons when pitching. So here I am, wondering and worrying how this is possible-I generally get great efficiency when fly sparging and have never been so far off... I'm thinking, what a mistake it was to take 7.5 gallons, should have killed it at 6.5-7.

So I boiled for an extra 60-75 minutes before my hop additions to make up the difference and just hoping to come in around 1.060. So at the end I grab my OG and it's 1.074 with a little over 5 gallons of wort... And at this point I am just wondering how the hell this is possible. Then it hits me 20 minutes later what happened... I didn't account for the temperature adjustment, which was around 140* when I took the SG. Threw that into a calculator and my SG was actually 1.053, so about perfect of what I needed. So looks like this batch is going to be a bit higher on the ABV than I wanted, but overall I am just glad I figured out my mistake because I was stumped for a few hours. I paid too close attention to all the fine details and totally skipped the simple steps... Oh well. I will say, the fermentation smells amazingly hoppy right now and I love it. The color looks great as well. Will probably pitch the dry hop in a couple days and see where it's at.

The only negative experience I had was using the HopShot. Can't say I am huge fan, because that stuff is a pain in the ass to clean off. It leeched onto my kettle (obviously) but also my chiller, and anything else that touched the wort. StarSan did next to nothing to rid anything of it after 2 cleanses.

Just wanted to say thanks again to those who helped me understand the water chemistry bit and with other questions.. Excited to try this batch out.
 
paarman said:
Brew day went great-for the most part-on Saturday. One simple rookie mistake that I am just kicking myself for however. Took my SG once I was ready to boil and it came out at 1.040. I drew 7.5 gallons, which is more than I generally take, but I wanted to overshoot a bit to get closer to 6 gallons when pitching. So here I am, wondering and worrying how this is possible-I generally get great efficiency when fly sparging and have never been so far off... I'm thinking, what a mistake it was to take 7.5 gallons, should have killed it at 6.5-7.

So I boiled for an extra 60-75 minutes before my hop additions to make up the difference and just hoping to come in around 1.060. So at the end I grab my OG and it's 1.074 with a little over 5 gallons of wort... And at this point I am just wondering how the hell this is possible. Then it hits me 20 minutes later what happened... I didn't account for the temperature adjustment, which was around 140* when I took the SG. Threw that into a calculator and my SG was actually 1.053, so about perfect of what I needed. So looks like this batch is going to be a bit higher on the ABV than I wanted, but overall I am just glad I figured out my mistake because I was stumped for a few hours. I paid too close attention to all the fine details and totally skipped the simple steps... Oh well. I will say, the fermentation smells amazingly hoppy right now and I love it. The color looks great as well. Will probably pitch the dry hop in a couple days and see where it's at.

The only negative experience I had was using the HopShot. Can't say I am huge fan, because that stuff is a pain in the ass to clean off. It leeched onto my kettle (obviously) but also my chiller, and anything else that touched the wort. StarSan did next to nothing to rid anything of it after 2 cleanses.

Just wanted to say thanks again to those who helped me understand the water chemistry bit and with other questions.. Excited to try this batch out.
Click to expand...

You may get more hop oil extraction with the higher abv. It will be good and keep us updated.
 
Dry hopped today, and almost surprised to see it's just about finished already... Sitting at 1.018 this morning. Conan does some fast work.
 
I just brewed a julius clone with half us 2 row and half irish ale malt with 1318 yeast. Its my closest clone to date.
 
braindead said:
Good afternoon.

Goign to brew this next week and just wondering which you think would be the best pale ale malt
Would you go for
Crisp Extra Pale Maris Otter
https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=1283

or Muntons Pale Malt - PROPINO
https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=674

Thanks

Also no honey malt available here so do you think Weyermann Melanoidin Malt will be fine?

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=111
Click to expand...

For this recipe I'd go with the lighter base malt - the Crisp XL MO, which is half the EBC/SRM of the Muntons malt.

I try to keep the Gambrinus honey malt in stock (according to BS2 I have ~4 pounds right now) because it's a remarkably unique ingredient. There's no real sub for it - Melanoidin definitely isn't, that's more a toasted malt character than honey.

If ya have to brew without it but don't want to end up with something quite different, use C20 in its place. It's relatively benign...

Cheers!
 
So forgot to follow up on this. I bottled a week after I brewed the beer. It didn't drop any further than 1.018 which I was fine with where it was at. Love the flavor and head retention, it turned out pretty good. The color was slightly darker than I wanted but that's a small complaint. I plan to rebrew this without making the rookie mistake and see how it ends up. So far the haze has held until now, I've been checking a bottle or 2 a week and it's been fine.
 
Brewed this one up a while back, nice beer. Used 1318 and it finished at 1.018, higher than my other NEIPA attempts with that yeast. Weird thing is this beer ended up dropping clear in the keg before it kicked, never had another NEIPA recipe drop clear on me like that before. Still, tasty recipe, would brew again.

IMG_20170316_173707.jpg
 
paarman said:
So forgot to follow up on this. I bottled a week after I brewed the beer. It didn't drop any further than 1.018 which I was fine with where it was at. Love the flavor and head retention, it turned out pretty good. The color was slightly darker than I wanted but that's a small complaint. I plan to rebrew this without making the rookie mistake and see how it ends up. So far the haze has held until now, I've been checking a bottle or 2 a week and it's been fine.
Click to expand...

Has your beer turned to the color of swamp water? I have noticed that in mine they start to turn brown after 3 weeks of bottling. Even bottling out of the primary.

Although, I just opened my flip top 64 oz growler that was filled to the brim and it looked like the color of straw, just beautiful. So, I think what headspace was left in the growler was consumed by the yeast during bottle conditioning. But, the headspace left in 12 oz bottles is too much, and not able to be consumed during bottle conditioning. Hope it makes sense, just typing while thinking.
 
Sbe2 said:
Has your beer turned to the color of swamp water? I have noticed that in mine they start to turn brown after 3 weeks of bottling. Even bottling out of the primary.



Although, I just opened my flip top 64 oz growler that was filled to the brim and it looked like the color of straw, just beautiful. So, I think what headspace was left in the growler was consumed by the yeast during bottle conditioning. But, the headspace left in 12 oz bottles is too much, and not able to be consumed during bottle conditioning. Hope it makes sense, just typing while thinking.
Click to expand...


So far, so good. I'll be coming up on 3 weeks this Saturday but it's a yellow-orange now. Which yeast did you use when it turned colors? I used Conan on mine.. I'll keep an eye on it and let you know if the color starts to drop out
 
paarman said:
So far, so good. I'll be coming up on 3 weeks this Saturday but it's a yellow-orange now. Which yeast did you use when it turned colors? I used Conan on mine.. I'll keep an eye on it and let you know if the color starts to drop out
Click to expand...

1318 has lasted the longest, but 1056 went after a week, Conan (TYB)I got three before they turned. Do you use a bottling bucket or do you bottle out of the primary?
 
Sbe2 said:
1318 has lasted the longest, but 1056 went after a week, Conan (TYB)I got three before they turned. Do you use a bottling bucket or do you bottle out of the primary?
Click to expand...

I had this exact problem with this style of beer. Its absolutely from oxidation. The beer turns brownish and dull looking, and the aroma and flavor just gets stale while the bitterness remains. I tried the same thing you did, but it didn't change until I started kegging and could do closed transfers and flush everything with C02. I'm not sure how people have success bottling these types of beers unless its bottling from a keg
 
Bramstoker17 said:
I had this exact problem with this style of beer. Its absolutely from oxidation. The beer turns brownish and dull looking, and the aroma and flavor just gets stale while the bitterness remains. I tried the same thing you did, but it didn't change until I started kegging and could do closed transfers and flush everything with C02. I'm not sure how people have success bottling these types of beers unless its bottling from a keg
Click to expand...

I totally agree. Kegging is the best option for this beer. Problem is I drink it much faster. My last 5 gallon batch never saw 2 weeks
 
I'll third it to seal the deal. If it's turning, it's absolutely oxidized. Just dump it, you won't enjoy them at all. Kegging via direct transfer is the only way to go with these guys.
 
So would you guys recommend either a glass carboy, brew bucket or a bottling bucket to ferment in to prevent oxidisation.Ill be begging my brew. Want to avoid a nasty brown brew as much as possible
 

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