Juicy Bits OG Waaaaayyy Off.

[agentbud]

I just brewed the Juicy Bits recipe posted by Weldwerks in CB&B back in 2018: WeldWerks Juicy Bits Clone (NEIPA) | Community | BeerAdvocate
The only change I made was to sub in 5lb of plain 2-row for 5 lbs of the pale ale because I already had some. Other than that, followed the recipe to a T. Plugged everything in to beersmith and it estimated a SG of 1.066, just like the recipe says. I BIAB and crush the grains pretty fine (never have any issues hitting OG before). I can live with a couple points off but in this case my OG came in at 1.046. - 20 points off. Interested in hearing thoughts on what might cause an OG to come in that low.

 

[day_trippr]

As I said in my DM, crush is usually the culprit, followed by lautering problems - particularly with fly-sparging as batch sparging is tougher to screw up

Cheers!

 

[agentbud]

Thanks day_trippr. After sending that DM I decided to also post to the broader community. To repeat to all my reply: I BIAB with no sparge/lauter. I crush my own grains and go really fine. Pre-boil volume was dead on. Never had an issue with OG before with this process. I normally mash at 153 but this recipe called for 149. That's still in the acceptable range but could it be a factor? Could it be a bad batch of grain?

 

[day_trippr]

When I want a highly fermentable recipe I'll do a sacc rest at 148°F for most of the duration before stepping up to 158°F for awhile, so I don't think your mash temperature would explain a 20 point ding at all.

As for the grain, as long as it was actually malted it should convert as expected. So unless you bought some cattle feed I don't think that's the problem here

It's a mystery!

 

[balrog]

20 points with no obvious volume/weight mis-measurements or grain source oddities is quite remarkable.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I once mashed in a batch and later found a portion of the grains never made it into the tun. Later that same day the same thing happened with the yeast.

 

[agentbud]

I once mashed in a batch and later found a portion of the grains never made it into the tun. Later that same day the same thing happened with the yeast.

Funny. I'm reading this after just going out to the brew shed to see if there were any bags of grains I forgot to add. Nope - I got them all.

The mystery continues... The Est FG from both the recipe and from beersmith say it should be 1.017. Right now (2 days after brew day), my gravity reading is at 1.009. I guess the yeast still have to eat. Probably gonna end up too dry for a juicy bits clone, huh?

 

[hotbeer]

Pre-boil volume was dead on.

Pre-boil volume isn't that important for OG as is post boil volume. And even that isn't as important if you don't have any idea what your actual SG was preboil. IMO.

Did you take any SG reading between mashing and putting in the boil kettle? I don't regularly do them, but they would be helpful to pinpoint whether your OG issue was a mix up in measuring something, bad mashing technique or rarely maybe bad malts.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I would also wonder about either an error in measuring out the grain or an error in gravity measurement. It looks like the recipe is for 5 gallons into the fermenter. Is that the volume you got into the fermenter?

Is your mash temp thermometer calibrated? If you were actually under your 149F target, it needed more time for conversion. It could be a wacky pH issue...though when I started adjusting water chemistry and pH, I never noticed much impact on my efficiency.

One time it took my a few days to understand why I overshoot my gravity on an IPA, then it hit me that 4 lbs X 4 = 16 lbs of base malt and not 12 lbs! (I used to measure out my grains in a pitcher that could hold about 4 lbs of grain at a time.)

 

[day_trippr]

Pre-boil volume isn't that important for OG as is post boil volume. And even that isn't as important if you don't have any idea what your actual SG was preboil. IMO.[...]

Post-boil is pre-ordained. Pre-boil is where the rubber hits the road. And the brewer's last chance to "fix" a problem.
Hit your volume and density numbers and you're in the money...

Cheers!

 

[day_trippr]

There's a recent sorta similar "missed my OG" thread extant, which inspires the question in this case: was there a measurement error?

Otoh...the current gravity suggests there was a significant OG miss...

Cheers!

 

[hotbeer]

Post-boil is pre-ordained. Pre-boil is where the rubber hits the road. And the brewer's last chance to "fix" a problem.
Hit your volume and density numbers and you're in the money...

Cheers!

I'd agree with that if we knew the pre-boil SG. Though if one isn't consistent with how hard they boil then even that doesn't pre-ordain the OG.

If the quantity of wort at 1.046 OG is 5 gallons, then 1.52 gallons of water still need to be removed to get to 1.066

OPs issue is probably a couple things. But it'll be more of a guess without SG's and quantity before and after each process

 

[agentbud]

To answer some of the questions in the last few posts:

1) Grain measurement. The grains were in pre-measured bags from the homebrew shop (morebeer). I dug the bags out of the trash and confirmed the amounts were correct. I didn't weigh each bag but just going by the size and weight measurements printed on the bag, and all were full when I got them, I highly doubt there would be anything off in the grain measurements.
2) SG measurements. I do not take any pre-boil SG readings (probably should start).
3) Volumes. All water/wort volumes hit their target (mash, pre-boil, post-boil, into fermenter).
4) Mash technique. I BIAB, grains were ground by me very fine. Ensured good mix of water and grains (no dough balls) and gave a good stir at half-way point. No changes from past brews.
5) Thermometer. I have not recently calibrated the thermometer. I will look into that.
6) Ph. Mash Ph was computed and adjusted using what I know about the water I use and plugging everything into beersmith. I use mostly store-bought distilled water with a little local tap (tested by ward labs) added in. I do not have a Ph meter so I can only go by what the software says.

I will add this. I use a Tilt for fermentation temp and gravity readings. My initial thought was maybe the Tilt was off, so I pulled a sample and checked it with a hydrometer. It matched what the Tilt said. However, after the 1.009 reading yesterday, this morning I checked the Tilt log and it shows it dropped as low as 1.003 and then slowly rose up to 1.013 this morning. That is wacky. I did add a dry-hop charge yesterday so maybe some hop floaters are affecting the Tilt. That would not explain the initial low OG, though.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I will add this. I use a Tilt for fermentation temp and gravity readings. My initial thought was maybe the Tilt was off, so I pulled a sample and checked it with a hydrometer.

Was the OG reading from the Tilt or from a hydrometer reading? I don't own a Tilt (they look like handy devices!), but I see a lot of people say they don't trust them for accurate readings but more for trends. Could it be that your beer was on target but your Tilt reading was off?

 

[agentbud]

Was the OG reading from the Tilt or from a hydrometer reading? I don't own a Tilt (they look like handy devices!), but I see a lot of people say they don't trust them for accurate readings but more for trends. Could it be that your beer was on target but your Tilt reading was off?

The OG was from the Tilt. I also mostly use it for trends. And honestly, I would be fine with a reading that was +/- 5 points, but not 20. When the initial OG recording showed 1.046, I assumed something was just throwing it off and it would correct itself. The next day I checked the Tilt log and it continued to show 1.046 until active fermentation kicked in and the number started dropping. When it reached about 1.020 I decided to take a hydrometer reading and it also came in a 1.020 so I assumed the Tilt was, and had been, tracking correctly.

 

[Deric]

I have 4 Tilts and use them regularly. All are calibrated regularly. They are awesome for tracking trends. I would never trust them for OG/FG readings.

 

[RyPA]

Bringing this thread back from the dead, and it's a little off topic.

I'm planning to brew a juicy bits clone and am looking for opinions.

I plan to use Verdant IPA yeast, and I ferment/serve from the same keg, meaning my dry hops, which get dropped in commando, will remain in the keg until I pour my last beer. I also will whirlpool commando.

I've done this with many batches and the beer comes out good, but am starting to question if I am leaving some beer betterness on the table.

I considered using my fermonster for this batch, which would allow me to transfer off of the yeast cake with no O2 exposure. But if this wouldn't do much from a flavor perspective, I'd like to stick to my keg.