Jim Koch is not happy

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I was reading that yesterday. I respect Jim Koch and what he did for the beer industry. Indeed, Boston Lager was one of my gateway drugs to better beer, as is probably the case with many of us.

But...

Does every beer bar still owe it to him 30 years later to keep SA products on tap (especially if they aren't selling in the first place)? That's basic Economics. Besides, I can walk into any Applebee's, gas station or neighborhood dive bar and find a SA product. They aren't hurting for exposure.
 
Interesting read. It stands to reason that if everyone around me had heady topper on tap and I was going to make a niche bar, I would probably buy kegs of other great beers and not Heady Topper.

For what it's worth, the article seems like it's just taking a nice long pause to crap on Jim Koch. I share many of the same views as this article, but just can't get past it's general divisive tone. To that end there have been many times when I sat at a bar with some friends and a middle of the road, not very exciting Samuel Adam's was the saving grace for my taste buds.

It's true that he makes products that appeal to millions. As great as some of the show stopping craft beers out there can get, I don't see that many people getting excited by much more than a Fat Tire. In that way he will lose the beer nerds but sell a lot of beer.

I'm just dumb-founded to read (assuming the initial story is true) that he could blindly think of his own product so highly. I mean... he's a business man: he know's what he's selling. If I were him I would just be happy to have the capital to consider making really interesting beers with.
 
10888583_744374352320595_1067426581829158996_n.jpg
 
Yeah, he needs to come to grips with the idea that the market changes. BBC had a good run, but they're no longer the center of the craft beer universe. Well...maybe they still ARE, but their star is dying right now.

Maybe the market will change back in time.
 
The article notes that they intentionally don't carry Boston Beer because EVERYONE in Boston does.

The interesting thing that is brought up the in the article is something I've seen for the last several years. Larger breweries are often passed over by beer geeks not because of putting out a bad product or by not keeping up with the creative explosion of brewing. Rather because they are "always" available. Scarcity and "new" breeds a large amount of interest now days. This is not simply limited to beer, but a lot of different industries.

In addition, anything that reeks of "big business" tends to get frowned upon more and more, even if this big business is still doing good things. Boston Beer certainly suffers from this (they aren't the only ones) as the number of craft brewers explodes.

This one particular beer bar's decision is more of a sign of the times rather than sticking up the middle finger at Jim Koch (although if half of junk spewed in the article is true, there would certain be birds chipping from my hand).
 
He shouldn't be entirely surprised. Same thing happened to Leinenkugel's, granted on a much much smaller scale. But the effect is the same. Solution Jim? Get creative. I do like me a bottle of Sam Adam's sometimes, or a pint at the bar if theres nothing better on tap. But, Jim, you're a businessman, you have to figure out how to stay current and 'hip'.

Don't go the way of Bret Favre and keep playing even after you are no longer relevant, be happy you built a dynasty and created a revolution.
 
LandoLincoln said:
BBC had a good run, but they're no longer the center of the craft beer universe. Well...maybe they still ARE, but their star is dying right now.

Maybe the market will change back in time.
Click to expand...

I used to work in one of the largest liquors in CT and it might not surprise you how often BMC drinkers pick up a case of Boston Lager for their craft beer loving friends. It might surprise you that some of our most knowledgeable craft beer customers would also pick up a case for their friends who didn't like the "good stuff".

I agree with you that they aren't the center of the craft beer universe, but I'd have to say that I don't think they are hurting by any stretch of the imagination.

Their slogan should be
"Samuel Adam's... always a safe decision."
 
The "craft" beer world has gotten too big and diverse for the word "craft". In time we will develop a reasonably consistent nomenclature for distinct types of beers and brewers under the "craft" umbrella. Until we do, "craft" brewers and "craft" consumers with little or nothing in common will continue to clash over their identities and their claims to an obsolete and no longer very informative label.
 
DSorenson said:
I agree with you that they aren't the center of the craft beer universe, but I'd have to say that I don't think they are hurting by any stretch of the imagination.
Click to expand...

Hey, we're talking about a corporation here. If they made four billion dollars last year and this year they only made 3.8 billion dollars, obviously people need to get fired in order to please the shareholders.

BLOOD TO APPEASE THE WALL STREET GODS!
 
I still like their Rebel IPA. Boston Lager was never my thing. Poor guy, he is like the middle child who is in need of some attention.
 
"Koch’s attitude is clear: He doesn't give a damn. “You can’t meet the needs of every hipster bar,” he tells me from inside the tasting room at his J.P. brewery." Screw the hipsters. :rockin:
 
I've actually been to Row 34, it was near my old work. I had 5 or 6 different beers there, and NONE of them were "Crap not worth serving". weird.
 
joe_four_strings said:
"Koch’s attitude is clear: He doesn't give a damn. “You can’t meet the needs of every hipster bar,” he tells me from inside the tasting room at his J.P. brewery." Screw the hipsters. :rockin:
Click to expand...

Sorry for the double post: But I agree with this very much. Most of the time they are pretending to walk the walk but if you dig a layer down, the talk doesn't make much sense and usually say something pretty dumb about what they think is making their beer taste like that.
 
DSorenson said:
I used to work in one of the largest liquors in CT and it might not surprise you how often BMC drinkers pick up a case of Boston Lager for their craft beer loving friends. It might surprise you that some of our most knowledgeable craft beer customers would also pick up a case for their friends who didn't like the "good stuff".

I agree with you that they aren't the center of the craft beer universe, but I'd have to say that I don't think they are hurting by any stretch of the imagination.

Their slogan should be
"Samuel Adam's... always a safe decision."
Click to expand...

You just described my parents and in-laws in a nutshell. They'll drink more than BMC but aren't hugely adventurous. They'll usually bring SA or Leinie's to parties...which is fine. Like you said, when there are however many dozens of options on the shelf, those are safe choices.

I think there's also a bit of mindset that paying $10+ on a 6-pack is excessive.
 
Here's Row 34's current beer list. I'm ready to go...

Edelherb
Pilsner
Kulmbacher / GER
4.9% / 16oz 6

Aecht Schlenkerla
Urbock
Rauchbier
Heller / GER
6.6% / 16oz 9

Ungespundent
Helles
Mahr's / GER
5.2% / 19oz 9

Taras Boulba
Belgian Pale Ale
Brasserie de la Senne /
BEL
8.0% / 10oz 8

Table Beer
Golden Ale
Crooked Stave / SC
3.6% / 10oz 8

Lilikoi Kepolo
Passionfruit Wit
Avery / CO
5.6% / 13oz 10

Artista Zynergia: Artamas
Wild Saison
OEC Brewing / CT
6.3% / 10oz 10

Hofmann
Double Pale Ale
Enlightenment / MA
7.4% / 16oz 7

Tiger Baby
Pale Ale
Mikkeller / DEN
5.0% / 10oz 8

Even Keel
Session IPA
Ballast Point / CA
3.8% / 16oz 5

Merry Taj
Imperial IPA
Lost Abbey / CA
8.0% / 13oz 7

Mainer Weisse
Berliner Weisse Style
Night Shift / MA
5.9% / 13oz 8

Persimmon Slip
American Wild Ale
Upland /

Jolly Pumpkin / IN
5.0% / 10oz 10

Černé Pivo
Czech Black Lager
Notch / MA
4.0% / 20oz 7

Double Negative
Imperial Stout
Grimm / NY
10.0% / 14oz 9

Dinosmores
Imperial Stout
Off Color / IL
10.5% / 10oz 10

Too Cream
Milk Stout
Dark Horse / MI
7.0% / 14oz 6

Cask
Wild Raven
Black IPA
Thornbridge / ENG
6.6% / 20oz 8

the bottle list is excellent:
http://row34.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Beer-1215.pdf
 
If he was truly that upset about an established self proclaimed craft beer bar not carrying his line of beers, then the correct and productive thing to do, is not blame everyone else, and throw a tantrum and start inspecting dates, hell I would gladly drink plenty of certain craft beers past expiration before a Sam Adams.

The correct thing to do is introspective. Ask yourself why they don't carry your beer? Do you still subscribe to the same principles that got you to the top to begin with? Just because you call yourself a craft brew don't make it so. Boston Beer needs to go back to their roots, and produce a limited variety of certain beers, using the freshest ingredients, and best practices. They need to get away from this whole over 60'varieties ****. Who cares if you have 60 beers when 58
Of them suck balls.

I am not trying to bash Sam Adams, they did, and still do make fine varieties of certain beers, and I will always choose a Sam over a BMC. It's just the we need to be the everything to everyone mentality that has put them out of favor as of late ( last 8 years)
 
Mike_kever_kombi said:
is not blame everyone else, and throw a tantrum and start inspecting dates, hell I would gladly drink plenty of certain craft beers past expiration before a Sam Adams.
Click to expand...

If you take the tour they are pretty hoity toity about going to the stores that carry their product and buying back all the Sam Adams beer past date. A practice they probably don't as I've seen some past season seasonal packs around at many places.

That being said. The great thing about Sam Adams is you can regularly get it in places that only carry BMC beer, in which I'll happily order a Sam Adams anything before one of those. I wouldn't however order one at row 34 or bar that has plentiful craft beer selection. So Jim Should be happy that his beer isn't at these places because upon inspection, The Sam Adams would be the one not turning over.
 
I have a buddy that owns a beer/wine store, and we were talking a couple years back, and he said the whole buy back thing doesn't work like them just coming in and inspecting dates and giving you cash.

He said that you have to give the old ones to the distributor when they come in, buy new SA product, and then wait for reimbursement. I don't know how true that is, because I don't own, work at, or am any way involved with a beer store or distributor.

The fact that you can walk into anystore USA and get either Budweiser, or Sam Adams should speak volumes about its efficacy as a craft beer
 
MarshmallowBlue said:
If you take the tour they are pretty hoity toity about going to the stores that carry their product and buying back all the Sam Adams beer past date. A practice they probably don't as I've seen some past season seasonal packs around at many places.
Click to expand...

That's bullcrap. I've seen the Winter Lager on shelves in May.

The other factor they don't mention in the story is that not only are craft drinkers gravitating towards the newest and coolest, but with all the breweries popping up everywhere, they're focusing on local beer. BBC isn't going to qualify in that category*.

*BBC's main brewing facility is 12 miles from my house, so technically they are a local brewery to me. That being said, it isn't as if they have a taproom where I can just walk in and grab a couple pints, and as far as I know they haven't done any collaborations or other events with the other breweries in the area.
 
This article is total BS. makes me doubt this so-called "rant" ever really happened.

"...aggressive West Coast flavors that now dominate the market.

The American beer palate is experiencing a tectonic shift. Once opposed to bitterness, domestic drinkers now embrace it. Big, bold, and brash IPAs are what consumers want..."

Oh yeah? The American beer palate embraces bitterness? Did they really write that?

Then why are there 4 near empty coolers full of BMC beers and only one slightly picked over for every single craft beer, cider, hard lemonade, etc. in every grocery store?

I call shenanigans on this author.
 
Magnus314 said:
This article is total BS. makes me doubt this so-called "rant" ever really happened.

"...aggressive West Coast flavors that now dominate the market.

The American beer palate is experiencing a tectonic shift. Once opposed to bitterness, domestic drinkers now embrace it. Big, bold, and brash IPAs are what consumers want..."

Oh yeah? The American beer palate embraces bitterness? Did they really write that?

Then why are there 4 near empty coolers full of BMC beers and only one slightly picked over for every single craft beer, cider, hard lemonade, etc. in every grocery store?

I call shenanigans on this author.
Click to expand...

I call shenanigans on this post. BMC is limitless. :)

I worked in Grocery (in CA grocery stores sell booze for those who's states have different structures) for years. Late in the day on Superbowl Sunday and late at night on New Year's Eve, the only alcohol in the house was BMC, and there was more in the back. Guaranteed.
 
Great, then even you, the voice of experience, agree - on the other 363 days every year, BMC sells many times more. No "tectonic shift" in the "American beer palate".
 
The SA commercial from a couple years ago where at the end he jumps up out of a vat of beer...? Would you drink Sam Adams after seeing that?
 
I DO find it interesting that Boston Beer started running these new ads touting their independence in the last week or so in response to sales/partnerships for the likes of Boulevard and Founders. I guess it's no longer "we are the craft beer community" but rather dog eat dog from their standpoint. I guess it was just a matter of time.
 
If I go to a bar/restaurant that carries mostly BMC and there's a SA available I'm fine. I will drink this and Yeungling all day and be very happy. If there's Summer Ale or Winter Ale, I'm even happier (No Cranberry Lambic please - yuck).

SA is always creating new beers. I try them all. They're not always great, but most of the craft beers I try aren't all that great either. There's a lot of mediocrity out there right now. I'm not sure why SA is the only one being called out for it.

I don't know why Jim Koch seems to be getting hammered lately. I have a lot of respect for him, his company, and the beer they produce. I give him a lot of credit for where beer is today. He's takes new brewers under his wing and provides support to the industry as a whole. Unfortunately I think he's on the cusp of becoming an 'evil corporate executive' in the public's eye. SA is starting to be viewed as more BMC than craft. I guess people don't like success.

There's a book called 'The Audacity of Hops: The History of America's Craft Beer Revolution'. Anyone interested in the history of craft beer in America should read it. Jim Koch is highlighted in a quite few chapters. It's a good read. My only complaint is that It's hard to keep up with all the names, and it tends to jump around between brewers and timelines.
 
edroberts said:
I guess it's no longer "we are the craft beer community" but rather dog eat dog from their standpoint. I guess it was just a matter of time.
Click to expand...

Thirty years ago, they were the new craft kid on the block. But I wonder if wanting to become bigger and richer and more famous has moved them beyond the image of being a "craft" brewer and the consumer who once supported them? IOW, while I like the taste of some of the SA products, I philosophically choose not to support their emphasis on bigger and richer and more famous.
 
I still like SA Summer.
SA OctoberFest is fine drink. Nice and malty.

I tried a 12 of the Legacy IPA, was not bad, but there is far greater IPA's out there.

I have never been much of a fan of Boston Lager,
However I find SA to be the middle ground between BMC & obscure craft beers.

I know if people come over to my pool and there is a choice between SA & Saranac, SA & Lagunitas, or SA & SN,
People tend to go with SA, they know the name.
 
b-boy said:
SA is always creating new beers. I try them all. They're not always great, but most of the craft beers I try aren't all that great either. There's a lot of mediocrity out there right now. I'm not sure why SA is the only one being called out for it.

I don't know why Jim Koch seems to be getting hammered lately. I have a lot of respect for him, his company, and the beer they produce. I give him a lot of credit for where beer is today. He's takes new brewers under his wing and provides support to the industry as a whole. Unfortunately I think he's on the cusp of becoming an 'evil corporate executive' in the public's eye. SA is starting to be viewed as more BMC than craft. I guess people don't like success.

There's a book called 'The Audacity of Hops: The History of America's Craft Beer Revolution'. Anyone interested in the history of craft beer in America should read it. Jim Koch is highlighted in a quite few chapters. It's a good read. My only complaint is that It's hard to keep up with all the names, and it tends to jump around between brewers and timelines.
Click to expand...

He's being called out for reasons you outline (ie...he's the 800lb gorilla in the craft market and holds himself out to be something special) and because the thread is about a temper tantrum he threw when he found out his beer wasn't being served in a dining establishment he was at.

You can't hold yourself out as an ambassador and elder statesman of craft beer (even his ad-campaigns are nauseously self aggrandizing IMHO), and then make mediocre beer and act childish in public like this article illustrates, all the while giving reporters impressions like:
Koch’s attitude is clear: He doesn’t give a damn. “You can’t meet the needs of every hipster bar,” he tells me from inside the tasting room at his J.P. brewery.
Click to expand...
And not expect to get "hammered" by the very people whom you've slighted...which ironically, is the people you want to be buying your beer.
 
LandoLincoln said:
I like the word "promiscuous" that the author used to describe the current mood of the craft beer drinker. That's a very good way to put it.

WHORES! WE'RE ALL WHORES!
Click to expand...

This description was also used in the Brewing TV episode "Snow day in Denver" by the brewer of Denver Brewing Co. and I very much agree.

Like someone else said, Jim Koch just needs to be happy he's a pioneer of a huge craft beer front and stop thinking he needs to rule the world. What's really important, Jim? Sam Adam's isn't making enough money for you? Why does a business always need to be growing? Isn't there a point where you're comfortable with where you are? And if you aren't growing, your business is still a multimillion dollar business...this isn't good enough? It always has to be more, more, more, doesn't it? I don't understand this mentality. And, yes, that was major disrespect how he made that waitstaff person cry. What a dick.
 

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