Sam Adams Double Agent IPL and Cream Stout worthwhile?

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hout17

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Hey All,

I was perusing some of my older BYO issues today and came across a 2013 issue that contains 6 Sam Adams clone recipes and a great article about Sam Adams.

I haven't had many of their beers and a couple of these recipes stuck out. Their Noble Pils, Cream Stout, and Double Agent IPL really stood out to me.

I wanted to see if anybody has an opinion and have tried these beers as they do look tasty and I may be adding them to my brew schedule.

Thanks!
 
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Here are the recipes in case anybody is interested. Apparently these were given to BYO directly from the Sam Adams brewers.

Also if you've had these beers let me know what you liked about them or what you didn't like about them.

Noble Pils
5 gal
OG: 1.048
FG: 1.012
IBU: 34
SRM: 5
ABV: 4.9%

7.4 lbs 2 row pale malt
2.5 lbs Bohemian Pilsner Malt

7.4 AAU Hallertau Hops @ 90 min
1.5 AAU Tettnang Hops @ 5 min
2.3 AAU Saaz Hops @ 5 min

1 oz Tettnang Hops (dry hop)
.75 oz Saaz Hops (dry hop)
.5 oz Strisselspalt Hops (dry hop)
.25 oz Hersbrucker Hops (dry hop)

Yeast: White Labs WLP830 or Wyeast 2206

Single infusion mash @ 153°F for 45 min

Boil 90 minutes

Ferment at 57°F for two weeks
Lager for 3 weeks @ 40°F
Add dry hops the final two weeks of lagering phase

Cream Stout
5 gal
OG: 1.057 FG: 1.020
IBU: 28
SRM: 55
ABV: 4.9%

8 lbs 2 row pale malt (2°L)
1.5 lbs white wheat malt (2°L)
.9 lbs caramel malt (60°L)
.9 lbs chocolate malt (350°L)
.6 lbs roasted barley (500°L)
.25 lbs weyermann carafa malt (350°L)

Hops:
.7 AAU East Kent Goldings (@ 60 min)
1.4 AAU East Kent Goldings (@ 30 min)
.6 AAU Fuggles (@ 30 min)
1.1 AAU UK Fuggles (@ 15 min)
4.8 AAU East Kent Goldings (@ 5 min)

Yeast: White Labs WLP001 or Wyeast 1056 or US-05

Single infusion mash at 155°F for 45 minutes

Boil for 60 minutes.

Double Agent IPL
5 gal
OG: 1.053 FG: 1.015
IBU: 43 SRM: 10 ABV: 5%

7.7 lbs 2 row pale malt (2°L)
3.5 lbs Munich malt (10°L)

6.3 AAU Zeus Hops @ 60 min
1.4 AAU Citra Hops @ 15 min
1.3 AAU Simco Hops @ 15 min
1.9 AAU Ahtanum Hops @ 15 min
3.8 AAU Simcoe Hops @ 5 min
2.5 AAU Cascade Hops @ 5 min

.5 oz Centennial Hops (dry hop)
.5 oz Simcoe Hops ( dry hop)
.5 oz Nelson Sauvin Hops (dry hop)
.5 oz Cascade Hops (dry hop)

Yeast: White Labs WLP830 or Wyeast 2206

Single Infusion mash @ 153°F for 45 minutes

Boil 60 minutes

Ferment at 57°F for 2 weeks
Lager for 3 weeks at 40°F

Add dry hops for final 2 weeks of lagering phase.
 
I could obviously be wrong and that bill is legit, but it's just way too many strains to make a lot of sense - unless they were clearing out inventory :)

Cheers!

Who knows but these are supposed to be direct from Sam Adams brewers according to BYO. I guess I'll try it and find out lol and see. Not sure it'll be on top of the brew list but I plan on trying all of these at some point.
 
Right, so I did enjoy the beers, but to be frank, I have brewed beers using all of the strains listed, and I'm pretty sure if two or more of them were omitted nobody would be the wiser. I've played around with lots of hops - neipas blessedly are like a big operating room when messing around with hops because they use so much :D - but unless one intentionally throws a sabot into the trial, once you get to 4 or maybe 5 strains one can't differentiate any more sensory input. It's just too much to comprehend.

So...eight strains? Really?

Cheers!
 
The Noble Pils sounds good.
Noble Pils was a seasonal release 10-15 years ago that was a collaboration brew between Jim Koch and his daughter for her wedding reception, which coincided with when my own daughter got married. It was brewed with all of the Noble hops and was quite unique. I liked it a lot back in the day. Has it been re-released? IIRC it got phased out and replaced with Latitude 48, which incorporated hops from around the world that are grown at 48 degrees North latitude. I hadn't seen either one lately, but that said I've moved on from most Sam Adams beers.

I tried my hand at replicating Noble Pils but could never find the right combination of ingredients and process. That was a while back and pre-dated my move to steel fermenters, temperature control and reduced oxygen exposure. I may have to dust off the old recipe and try to rekindle a fond memory.
 
So, a half-hour search of all my archived recipes for Noble Pils turned up two hits, one from March 2010 and the other from November 2011. Both are quite similar and closely match the OP's recipe. I remember back when I was playing with this beer that I'd done a lot of searching to get info in replicating this beer, and specifically recall a beer commercial (back when they were more than just 15 second sound bites) where Jim Koch was describing the beer and focusing mostly on the hops and how SA was focused on the quality of selection. Of course, most of the SA beers, at least at the time, were highly hopped with Hallertau Mittlefruh, and that is/was the primary hop in Noble Pils.

He was very specific about Mittlefrue. One has to suppose he was also specific about the true landrace cultivars of Tettnang, Spalter and Saaz as well. Unfortunately I'm sure that back in the early two-thousand "teens" that I was not as particular with my hops as Mr. Koch was. Speaking of hops, the OP's recipe lists Strisselspalt, which is a "French" Spalt and technically not a Noble. For authenticity you'd need to use Spalter Spalt.

Both my archived recipes have Bohemian pilsner malt and domestic 2-row approximately 2:1, along with "just a touch" of light crystal malt which was also a Koch trademark in his traditional SA beers, at least at the time. Also, the yeast was def WLP-830, though my brew logs show that once I used WLP-802 Bohemian. Nothing in my notes to describe if -802 was better than -830. Comparing my recipes with the OP's, I must have gotten at least a strong influence from BYO's recipe.

If I were to try to improve on it today, I'd go with Weyermann Floor malted pilsner and Light Munich ~8L at 2:1 ratio, with just a pinch of 40L crystal to please Mr. Koch (purely optional, but a nice homage). 153F mash would be OK, but a simple Hoch-Kurz step mash would be even better if you can pull it off without too much undue effort. Pay attention to the water profile. Never have seen what (if anything) SA does to treat their water, but if you want a beer that shows off the Noble hops you really need to focus on very soft water. WLP-830/Weihenstephan 34/70 is certainly the default setting for yeast, though presently I'm on a serious Augustiner/Andechs/Ayinger kick. Even if it lacks fidelity to SA's original, I think it results in a net positive.

And finally the HOPS! Don't cut corners. Go for the gusto. Get the highest quality original landrace varietals, and only the true Nobles, you can find. It might not be the 'original' Sam Adams Noble Pils. It'll be even better!
 
@Brooothru Awesome info in to your experience brewing the Noble Pils and thoughts definitely a great addition to this thread.

When I have a go at these recipes I think initially I'll brew them as is just to get a baseline and then do some of the tweaks that are mentioned to improve the beer.

I find this super interesting.
 
Very cool Cream Stout was a favorite of mine.
Half the reason I'm starting brewing is to make some of the beers of my youth that are discontinued (mostly the early Sam Adams varieties).
 
Very cool Cream Stout was a favorite of mine.
Half the reason I'm starting brewing is to make some of the beers of my youth that are discontinued (mostly the early Sam Adams varieties).

If you brew that cream Stout at some point let us know how it turned out. When I get around to brewing these I'll be reporting back on this thread although it may be a while yet.
 
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