Isolated Yeast (Tree House): How to Identify and Characterize?

[couchsending]

Is on the high side it seems

Didn't know you were using your own water, thought you were adding CaC03 of something crazy.

I've actually been using my water recently thats somewhere around 240ppm alkalinity. Just preboil and
decant and have had no issues. Made a few saisons that should be ready here soon. Interested to see what
it brings versus RO which I've only ever used.

 

[couchsending]

Just want to clarify something here, are you checking pH at the end of the boil, adjusting down to 5.0 (what was the starting value?) and then continuing with the whirlpool? This sounds like it would take quite a bit of time? If you have a trick or something, I’d love to hear it before going this route, thanks!

The adjusting down to 5.0 part? Normally I just take a sample at 20 or 10 minutes or so and kinda wing it, I can get pretty close
most of the time. I believe you can find charts online that'll tell you the exact amount of 88% lactic to add in the kettle to
get a .1 PH drop. Obviously the Whirlpool hop additions will raise it so that needs to be considered. I've been keeping my kettle
PH on the high side until the last 20. I live at 7000 feet and DMS volatilizes half as fast as compared to sea level cause I only boil at
201. At ph above 5.4 it volatilizes at least a little faster. I usually add some phosphoric at 20 to get it closer to 5.2 for optimum protein coagulation then adjust to 5.0 in the WP stage.

 

[leesmith]

Didn't know you were using your own water, thought you were adding CaC03 of something crazy.

I've actually been using my water recently thats somewhere around 240ppm alkalinity. Just preboil and
decant and have had no issues. Made a few saisons that should be ready here soon. Interested to see what
it brings versus RO which I've only ever used.

Just trying to understand all this so forgive the questions if they sound stupid.

I was just about to ask Melville if he’s ever boiled his water.

By doing so your removing a lot of the temporary hardness. The calcium, right?

I just wonder what using more Sodium Chloride vs Calcium Chloride in a higher bicarbonate water actually does chemically? I’m assuming your maintaining a softness...and does it resemble the same softness as having less bicarbonate to begin with?

Melville, how much acid are you using as a percentage of the grain bill?

 

[Rainy]

At ph above 5.4 it volatilizes at least a little faster. I usually add some phosphoric at 20 to get it closer to 5.2 for optimum protein coagulation then adjust to 5.0 in the WP stage.

So that's 5.0 at the beginning of the whirlpool or after the whirlpool going into the fermenter?

 

[isomerization]

The adjusting down to 5.0 part? Normally I just take a sample at 20 or 10 minutes or so and kinda wing it, I can get pretty close
most of the time. I believe you can find charts online that'll tell you the exact amount of 88% lactic to add in the kettle to
get a .1 PH drop. Obviously the Whirlpool hop additions will raise it so that needs to be considered. I've been keeping my kettle
PH on the high side until the last 20. I live at 7000 feet and DMS volatilizes half as fast as compared to sea level cause I only boil at
201. At ph above 5.4 it volatilizes at least a little faster. I usually add some phosphoric at 20 to get it closer to 5.2 for optimum protein coagulation then adjust to 5.0 in the WP stage.

I’ve honestly never messed with pH additions outside of mash (and even then I’ve stopped taken readings as Brun water was so spot on). My IPAs are always great, but of course they could be better, so I’ve wondered about whirlpool pH and hopping.

Are you remeasuring after your adjustment? Also as asked above, is 5.0 pre whirlpool hop addition or just prior to yeast pitching?

 

[couchsending]

Just trying to understand all this so forgive the questions if they sound stupid.

I was just about to ask Melville if he’s ever boiled his water.

By doing so your removing a lot of the temporary hardness. The calcium, right?

I just wonder what using more Sodium Chloride vs Calcium Chloride in a higher bicarbonate water actually does chemically? I’m assuming your maintaining a softness...and does it resemble the same softness as having less bicarbonate to begin with?

Melville, how much acid are you using as a percentage of the grain bill?

I’m going to butcher this but basically if you have enough calcium to begin with when you preboil and decant your CA will end up around 20 and your alkalinity between 60 and 80ppm. I just plug those number into Brun’n water and go from there. I use a combo or acid malt and phosphoric to adjust. I have no idea what my CL/So4/Mg/Na levels are as I haven’t sent it in for a full report so I just made some “rustic” type beers with it to see what they taste like with my shitty water.

 

[couchsending]

I’ve honestly never messed with pH additions outside of mash (and even then I’ve stopped taken readings as Brun water was so spot on). My IPAs are always great, but of course they could be better, so I’ve wondered about whirlpool pH and hopping.

Are you remeasuring after your adjustment? Also as asked above, is 5.0 pre whirlpool hop addition or just prior to yeast pitching?

It’s funny Bru’n water is always off for me and I can’t figure it out at all, sucks.

I’ll measure it before WP and then after and adjust as necessary. I don’t have it down to an exact science yet but based on WP amounts you can figure out how much those amounts increase PH. I’m not incredibly anal about it. As long as it’s between 5.15 and 5.0 for hoppy beers I’m fine with it. Again it depends on the yeast, some produce more acid than others on their own.

 

[isomerization]

It’s funny Bru’n water is always off for me and I can’t figure it out at all, sucks.

I’ll measure it before WP and then after and adjust as necessary. I don’t have it down to an exact science yet but based on WP amounts you can figure out how much those amounts increase PH. I’m not incredibly anal about it. As long as it’s between 5.15 and 5.0 for hoppy beers I’m fine with it. Again it depends on the yeast, some produce more acid than others on their own.

Okay I must be confused, is the goal to hit 5.0 for hop utilization, packaged beer pH or both?

Surely, you want the 5.0 for whirlpool hop purposes right? I’ve always understood that the yeast control their pH regardless of where it starts, so I wouldn’t expect a few tenths of pH to affect the final package pH much?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

As long as it’s between 5.15 and 5.0 for hoppy beers I’m fine with it. Again it depends on the yeast, some produce more acid than others on their own.

Are you measuring this pH at room temperature, or at mash temperature? Mash temperature pH measurements should be roughly about 0.35 pH points below room temperature pH measurements.

 

[couchsending]

Okay I must be confused, is the goal to hit 5.0 for hop utilization, packaged beer pH or both?

Surely, you want the 5.0 for whirlpool hop purposes right? I’ve always understood that the yeast control their pH regardless of where it starts, so I wouldn’t expect a few tenths of pH to affect the final package pH much?

To be honest I’m not 100% sure. Obviously the lower the PH the lower the bitterness from the WP addition but honestly I think the lower the Ph into the FV the lower the beer PH will be before DH.

Are you measuring this pH at room temperature, or at mash temperature? Mash temperature pH measurements should be roughly about 0.35 pH points below room temperature pH measurements.

That’s not mash PH, that’s PH at the end of the boil. Every sample is always cooled to room temp before measuring.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

That’s not mash PH, that’s PH at the end of the boil. Every sample is always cooled to room temp before measuring.

Thanks! How does the 5.0 to 5.15 pH at the end of the boil equate to your mash pH measurements?

 

[melville]

Just want to clarify something here, are you checking pH at the end of the boil, adjusting down to 5.0 (what was the starting value?) and then continuing with the whirlpool? This sounds like it would take quite a bit of time? If you have a trick or something, I’d love to hear it before going this route, thanks!

So once I get everything back in the kettle from the mash I check the PH and adjust to 5.1 (if it isn't already there). Once I turn the flame off I check again (in part to verify the previous change) and tweak again to get to 5.0. To check I just take a sample in a glass and swish around in some ice water, nothing fancy it takes about as long to check as it takes my setup to chill to 180-170.

 

[melville]

Just trying to understand all this so forgive the questions if they sound stupid.

I was just about to ask Melville if he’s ever boiled his water.

By doing so your removing a lot of the temporary hardness. The calcium, right?

I just wonder what using more Sodium Chloride vs Calcium Chloride in a higher bicarbonate water actually does chemically? I’m assuming your maintaining a softness...and does it resemble the same softness as having less bicarbonate to begin with?

Melville, how much acid are you using as a percentage of the grain bill?

I haven't tried boiling the water as of yet, but I'm also not unhappy with my results and not anxious to add another step. Previously I used Poland Spring water, I imagine boiling my water might bring me to a profile like that, but like I said my beer hasn't been worse since switching (that I can tell).

I am adding Lactic acid to adjust, and it's like 8 ml all together or something like that to bring it down. I switched to batch sparge at the beginning of the summer (from BIAB) and still figuring out Beersmith's acid addition recommendations (which always seem too high).

 

[couchsending]

Thanks! How does the 5.0 to 5.15 pH at the end of the boil equate to your mash pH measurements?

I adjust along the way as necessary. Mash pH for hoppy beers is generally targeted at around 5.3 room. I acidify sparge water to 5.4-5.5 and kettle full pH will generally fall around 5.4. Most of the time I leave it there for at least 30 if not 60 (it will fall incrementally on its own throughout the boil) as I have to boil for 90 and I get better DMS reduction at 5.4. Just depends on when I’m adding hops and how much as to when I’ll add acid to lower it.

I haven’t done many experiments testing one vs the other it’s just based on research I’ve done over the last year or so on pH throughout the process. A quote from Shaun Hill sparked my curiosity.

“Every beer I brew. Constant surveillance on brew day throughout production. Especially pre and post boil. “

Got me looking into pH more outside of Mash and Sparge and the effect it has. If mash and sparge fall into spec and you boil for long enough without a ton of hops the pH into the Fermenter will generally be fine. You’re generally going to want below 5.2 for lighter beers at KO and obviously the hot break is maximized at a certain pH. But if you’re adding a ton of hops I’ve found it can get out of whack. I’ve heard Henry from Monkish talk about getting pH as close to 5.0 at KO, I’ve heard Dan Suarez mention it needing to be below 5.2 for hoppy beers. The brew log for Pliney you can find online has mash pH spec at 5.3-5.5, Kettle Full pH at 5.24, and KO pH at 5.07.

Also Nate’s comments on adding plenty of hops in the boil and obviously TH beers have rather low bitterness. Only way to get less bitterness out of hops is to have a lower pH, at least that I know of.

There are supposedly hop oil conversions that happen within a narrow PH band as well, although I need to do more research on this.

 

[leesmith]

I haven't tried boiling the water as of yet, but I'm also not unhappy with my results and not anxious to add another step. Previously I used Poland Spring water, I imagine boiling my water might bring me to a profile like that, but like I said my beer hasn't been worse since switching (that I can tell).

I am adding Lactic acid to adjust, and it's like 8 ml all together or something like that to bring it down. I switched to batch sparge at the beginning of the summer (from BIAB) and still figuring out Beersmith's acid addition recommendations (which always seem too high).

What led you to using your tap water instead of Poland Spring?

Did the final product using Poland Spring lack something? Or has your process changed anyways since switching that it would be hard to tell?

I use the Brewers Friend water calculator and it’s pretty spot on with ph predictions. So I jump between that and Beersmith when making a recipe and just enter the amounts of salts and acid into Beersmith.

 

[melville]

What led you to using your tap water instead of Poland Spring?

Did the final product using Poland Spring lack something? Or has your process changed anyways since switching that it would be hard to tell?

I use the Brewers Friend water calculator and it’s pretty spot on with ph predictions. So I jump between that and Beersmith when making a recipe and just enter the amounts of salts and acid into Beersmith.

I think it was just getting numbers on my water, and seeing that it was largely in the ball park of Poland Springs other than one attribute and/or a conversation with @couchsending. We do so much experimenting in here and I've had so many side conversations that I forget half of why I'm doing what I'm doing.

 

[skibb]

Also Nate’s comments on adding plenty of hops in the boil and obviously TH beers have rather low bitterness. Only way to get less bitterness out of hops is to have a lower pH, at least that I know of.

Higher gravity of wort reduces isomerization as well. I don't t think this applies to TH, but many breweries their size do brew HG (boil like regular, but then dilute with water on the way to the FV)

 

[mikeroesoft]

I adjust along the way as necessary. Mash pH for hoppy beers is generally targeted at around 5.3 room. I acidify sparge water to 5.4-5.5 and kettle full pH will generally fall around 5.4. Most of the time I leave it there for at least 30 if not 60 (it will fall incrementally on its own throughout the boil) as I have to boil for 90 and I get better DMS reduction at 5.4. Just depends on when I’m adding hops and how much as to when I’ll add acid to lower it.

I haven’t done many experiments testing one vs the other it’s just based on research I’ve done over the last year or so on pH throughout the process. A quote from Shaun Hill sparked my curiosity.

“Every beer I brew. Constant surveillance on brew day throughout production. Especially pre and post boil. “

Got me looking into pH more outside of Mash and Sparge and the effect it has. If mash and sparge fall into spec and you boil for long enough without a ton of hops the pH into the Fermenter will generally be fine. You’re generally going to want below 5.2 for lighter beers at KO and obviously the hot break is maximized at a certain pH. But if you’re adding a ton of hops I’ve found it can get out of whack. I’ve heard Henry from Monkish talk about getting pH as close to 5.0 at KO, I’ve heard Dan Suarez mention it needing to be below 5.2 for hoppy beers. The brew log for Pliney you can find online has mash pH spec at 5.3-5.5, Kettle Full pH at 5.24, and KO pH at 5.07.

Also Nate’s comments on adding plenty of hops in the boil and obviously TH beers have rather low bitterness. Only way to get less bitterness out of hops is to have a lower pH, at least that I know of.

There are supposedly hop oil conversions that happen within a narrow PH band as well, although I need to do more research on this.

I love this post. It kinda confirms what I have been doing with my hoppy beers as well. Generally, I target pH 5.3 in the mash at room temp. I add salts to the mash only in order to maximize their effect on mash pH meaning that I don't have to add as much lactic acid. I then adjust my sparge water to pH 5.1-5.2 and aim for a pre boil pH of 5.25 and a post boil pH of 5.15 after f/o or wp hops and cooling. I don't always hit the targets because I am still trying to wrap my head around how to make pH adjustments on the fly. A post boil pH of 5.1-5.2 is known to enhance a roundness to the bitterness.

Something I've found to really make flavors pop is lowering the efficiency in my recipe, cutting runoff at roughly 1.025 and diluting with distilled water to hit target pre boil OG and volume. The law of diminishing returns has convinced me that the sharper tannins and husk polyphenols in the last bit of sparging is taking away from the overall softness of the beer. As a small bonus, I find that having a bit more grain in my MT helps me to maintain a more stable mash temp.

 

[melville]

Update:
Pretty close to kicking this keg. The beer has cleared some, still hazy, but not milky (remember this was 15% flaked oats, 15% raw wheat). Never got clove-y, but did get a bit more of the wlp300 as the beer "cleared." For the first 2 weeks I felt like this was one of my best efforts, for the second 2 weeks that sort of averaged out, but still pretty happy with the flavors. Will try a bit more Bravo next time, and a bit more wlp300 till I bump up against a threshold.

 

[Hannabrew]

I love this post. It kinda confirms what I have been doing with my hoppy beers as well. Generally, I target pH 5.3 in the mash at room temp. I add salts to the mash only in order to maximize their effect on mash pH meaning that I don't have to add as much lactic acid. I then adjust my sparge water to pH 5.1-5.2 and aim for a pre boil pH of 5.25 and a post boil pH of 5.15 after f/o or wp hops and cooling. I don't always hit the targets because I am still trying to wrap my head around how to make pH adjustments on the fly. A post boil pH of 5.1-5.2 is known to enhance a roundness to the bitterness.

Something I've found to really make flavors pop is lowering the efficiency in my recipe, cutting runoff at roughly 1.025 and diluting with distilled water to hit target pre boil OG and volume. The law of diminishing returns has convinced me that the sharper tannins and husk polyphenols in the last bit of sparging is taking away from the overall softness of the beer. As a small bonus, I find that having a bit more grain in my MT helps me to maintain a more stable mash temp.

#NoSparge

 

[Mer-man]

It’s funny Bru’n water is always off for me and I can’t figure it out at all, sucks.

Try version 5.3, the model is improved.

 

[rodrigcz08]

Anyone have any suggestions on the best way to blend the yeast for a 3 gallon batch? Would more yeast be better?

I was thinking of trying a 3 gallon batch with 92.0% 2-Row, 5.0% Carafoam, 2.5% Caramunich II. Just not sure the best way to go about blending the yeast. Thanks!

 

[Hannabrew]

My first attempt at this seems to be having some issues...not sure what happened but I split it into two fermenters and one is at 1.006 and the other is at 1.009. ph is 4.35 on the 1.006 batch and 4.45 on the 1.009 batch. Both taste watery and hefe'y but I don't think they're infected or anything.

I did the 92/5/3 ratio and fermented at 64 for 3 days until spunding and it's been sitting at 72 spunding with the DH for 5 days.

The only thing I can think is I weighed out dry yeast (2 packets of s04, 1.3g of T58, and .75g of Wb06) and rehydrated them together in a mason jar. I swirled it quite a bit prior to splitting it between the two batches but maybe it wasn't homogenized enough? Then again, the T58 has the highest AA and I only used 1.3g of it so....I'm at a loss.

Grist was

2-Row 45%
Golden Promise 37%
Carafoam 10%
Aromatic Malt 6%
Dextrose 2%

hochkurz mash

Thoughts?

 

[couchsending]

You step mashed with a rest at what 145? And you used sugar?

WB-06 is a diastaticus strain. There’s a reason it finished so low.

If copitching these yeasts I’d think you would need to mash at 154-156 to get a FG around 1.014ish.

Welcome to the game. I’ve made maybe 6 or 7 batches with different yeast blends. Nothing is even close.

 

[Hannabrew]

You step mashed with a rest at what 145? And you used sugar?

WB-06 is a diastaticus strain. There’s a reason it finished so low.

If copitching these yeasts I’d think you would need to mash at 154-156 to get a FG around 1.014ish.

Welcome to the game. I’ve made maybe 6 or 7 batches with different yeast blends. Nothing is even close.

yep, 146-155-167-172. Sugar added at the end of the boil.

For some reason when I looked up the AAs on the yeast I thought WB06 was low but now I'm seeing it's characteristic is very high attenuation.

So you think the WB06 took over (perhaps as early as during rehydration) and that's what's going on?

 

[couchsending]

I don’t know if it necessarily “took over” but it doesn’t take much of a diastaticus strain to cause over attenuation. Nor does it take much of a POF+ strain to add phenols (clove/pepper etc).

I probably won’t try copitching a yeast blend again. If I attempt a blend again I won’t add the POF+ yeasts until mid fermentation. There are too many other beers/techniques I want to try at the moment though so not sure when that’ll be.

 

[Hannabrew]

I don’t know if it necessarily “took over” but it doesn’t take much of a diastaticus strain to cause over attenuation. Nor does it take much of a POF+ strain to add phenols (clove/pepper etc).

I probably won’t try copitching a yeast blend again. If I attempt a blend again I won’t add the POF+ yeasts until mid fermentation. There are too many other beers/techniques I want to try at the moment though so not sure when that’ll be.

I hear ya...I did a 10G batch and at this point it's not looking like it will be drinkable. That's a lot of hops down the drain too ;-(

How are there so many others having success with this blend? If I had seen anybody else having issues I would've pitched straight s04 into one of the batches but everything I read was that this was spot on (granted I haven't read this entire massive thread yet)

 

[elgee]

I am going to try the gigayeast 054 and 014 blend. Probably 95/5 ratio. I did hear that treehouse stores their yeast with gigayeast, so that makes me wonder if they are in fact using gigayeast and not dry yeast...or just storing it there so when they need it they order some to be sent?

 

[couchsending]

It’s Fermentis dry yeast... you can see them pitch dry bricks of yeast at the brewery. No reason to store it anywhere... maybe their dark beer yeast is liquid??

 

[elgee]

Not sure, all I can say is gigayeast conformed they store it there but will not tell me what blends it is or the type.

 

[isomerization]

Not sure, all I can say is gigayeast conformed they store it there but will not tell me what blends it is or the type.

Wouldn’t their CDA (with TH) prohibit them from discussing client info, including that TH is a client?

 

[Hannabrew]

My first attempt at this seems to be having some issues...not sure what happened but I split it into two fermenters and one is at 1.006 and the other is at 1.009. ph is 4.35 on the 1.006 batch and 4.45 on the 1.009 batch. Both taste watery and hefe'y but I don't think they're infected or anything.

I did the 92/5/3 ratio and fermented at 64 for 3 days until spunding and it's been sitting at 72 spunding with the DH for 5 days.

The only thing I can think is I weighed out dry yeast (2 packets of s04, 1.3g of T58, and .75g of Wb06) and rehydrated them together in a mason jar. I swirled it quite a bit prior to splitting it between the two batches but maybe it wasn't homogenized enough? Then again, the T58 has the highest AA and I only used 1.3g of it so....I'm at a loss.

Grist was

2-Row 45%
Golden Promise 37%
Carafoam 10%
Aromatic Malt 6%
Dextrose 2%

hochkurz mash

Thoughts?

Surprisingly, I put the one that was 1.009/4.45 on tap and it tasted great. New readings show 1.007/8 and 4.39 (which makes sense as my spund just kept going and going...) so definitely finished much lower than anticipated (was shooting for 1.012) but the beer IS very similar to Julius and quite tasty.

I just threw the other keg in to cool so we'll see how that turned out.

Normally my NEIPAs taste very close to the final product even when young but this beer tasted awful when I sampled it a few days ago. A lot of the yeast character seems to have settled but present enough to give it that certain taste that only Julius seems to have.

 

[elgee]

Wouldn’t their CDA (with TH) prohibit them from discussing client info, including that TH is a client?

One would think so...

 

[TheHairyHop]

I just started pouring serving pints of an IPA with Amarillo and Galaxy. Primary fermentation with WLP023 and krausened with some DME "beer" and CBC 01. Things I've noticed:
Krausening may actually make a difference in the moutfeel of the beer. The bubbles are just crazy tight and creamy
4 oz of galaxy in about 3.5 gallons of beer wasn't overkill. It's much more soft and subtle than I thought it'd be. Maybe the Amarillo is providing some destructive interference here
WLP023 is one of the yeasts I like to use with NEIPAs, but I don't think that I'll use it with Galaxy again. It doesn't come across as juicy

 

[JohnConnor]

I just started pouring serving pints of an IPA with Amarillo and Galaxy. Primary fermentation with WLP023 and krausened with some DME "beer" and CBC 01. Things I've noticed:
Krausening may actually make a difference in the moutfeel of the beer. The bubbles are just crazy tight and creamy
4 oz of galaxy in about 3.5 gallons of beer wasn't overkill. It's much more soft and subtle than I thought it'd be. Maybe the Amarillo is providing some destructive interference here
WLP023 is one of the yeasts I like to use with NEIPAs, but I don't think that I'll use it with Galaxy again. It doesn't come across as juicy

That's great to hear. I just brewed one with all citra in the kettle, no WP, and I'll be dryhopping with 4oz of galaxy, 4oz of citra, and possibly 1oz of amarillo. I was a little afraid I might be overkilling it a bit. I'm using a mixture of windsor and s-04 (80/20 if I remember correctly).

 

[TheHairyHop]

well, you'd be using slightly more than 50% more dry hops than me per gallon, so I can't speak to the final product. However, I will say that sounds great

 

[JohnConnor]

well, you'd be using slightly more than 50% more dry hops than me per gallon, so I can't speak to the final product. However, I will say that sounds great

I've never used galaxy before and you used 4oz in less volume. I've used the other two a lot so I know what I'm getting. I still don't know if I should use some Amarillo. I like that it seems to have a calming effect on Citra and pushes it towards orange for me. I'm not sure an ounce is worth it since the other, big hops are more heavy-handed.

 

[JohnConnor]

I just started pouring serving pints of an IPA with Amarillo and Galaxy. Primary fermentation with WLP023 and krausened with some DME "beer" and CBC 01. Things I've noticed:
Krausening may actually make a difference in the moutfeel of the beer. The bubbles are just crazy tight and creamy
4 oz of galaxy in about 3.5 gallons of beer wasn't overkill. It's much more soft and subtle than I thought it'd be. Maybe the Amarillo is providing some destructive interference here
WLP023 is one of the yeasts I like to use with NEIPAs, but I don't think that I'll use it with Galaxy again. It doesn't come across as juicy

I'm also curious about your DME "beer" krausening. What was your process?

 

[brewpharm Hill]

Been lurking here for the last couples weeks and I've read this thread start to finish... what a trip! I've learned more in the last two weeks from reading this than I have in quite some time. Thanks to all that keep this thread going and experimenting.

So naturally I have some questions!

1) I'm about to brew a batch of this in the coming weeks (currently have a raspberry milkshake IPA Omnipollo spin off going in my fermenter). Does anyone have experience with melanoidin malt with this Julius/tree house chase? Thoughts? I was think of using it. Apparently, it is almost cheating for decoction mashing and improves head/foam, body, mouthfeel, breadiness. The tree house maltiness keeps me up at night with how they do it.

Grist would be:

2 row (75%)
carafoam (20%)
melanoidin (5%)

Rest of the recipe is same as what ya'll have been doing with mash temps, chemistry, etc. I'll probably force carb the first time around until I come up with a sound way to krausen with my setup.

2) Do you think TH Nate is doing shorter mash times to preserve some of the malt flavors to get that bready/malty backbone? I have 0 experience with short mash times, I've always done 60 with a 10-15 min mashout. I've REALLY tasted it on the most recent batch of Julius, Haze, and even Sap from a week or two ago.

3) I definitely have others that are not coming to mind at the moment....

 

[TheHairyHop]

I've never used galaxy before and you used 4oz in less volume. I've used the other two a lot so I know what I'm getting. I still don't know if I should use some Amarillo. I like that it seems to have a calming effect on Citra and pushes it towards orange for me. I'm not sure an ounce is worth it since the other, big hops are more heavy-handed.

The 4 oz was the only dry hopping however. You'll be using less galaxy, but more dry hop overall. I'm sure it'll be great though

I'm also curious about your DME "beer" krausening. What was your process?

I just used DME to create a wort that was calculated via brewer's friend and, at a nice krausen when it smelled like yeast, I dumped it into the serving keg before transferring the finished beer on top.